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mtgoat666
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
| Quote: | Originally posted by chuckie
I am amazed at ignorant we all are. Take the time, please to read the biography of Carlos Slim, and study his timeline. He, through a number of
foundations has donated hundreds of millions of dollars , to improve education, health, sports and ecology here in Mexico. He is a true
philanthropist...I read it today, and am truely impressed...We need more people like him.... |
How 'bout a link, Chuckie? I'm in the mood for a nice surprise. By Slim's own admission, he's not much into charity and sees his calling as a job
creator to be more beneficial. He makes a good point.
Regardless of some praise which has been made of him, we don't know, nor ever will know, what incentives he receives for his reported generosity.
One thing I would confidently bet on is, he's not doing it for nothing. |
Slim, 73, lives in a nation with little tradition of philanthropic giving. Slowly, he’s overcoming a reluctance to donate money, but he still voices
doubts about whether giving simply breeds dependency.
“We have seen donations for 100 years,” the telecommunications tycoon told The Chronicle of Philanthropy in September. “We have seen thousands of
people working in nonprofits, and the problems and poverty are bigger. They have not solved anything.”
When he does give, Slim funds environmental, health and educational programs, but he avoids projects to strengthen democracy or civic participation.
“For many years, he said, ‘I think the most important thing I can do with my money is create jobs,’” said Joel L. Fleishman, a Duke University law
professor and author of “The Foundation: A Great American Secret; How Private Wealth is Changing the World.”
Slim, who owns Mexico’s primary fixed line and cellphone networks, is far from uncharitable. He’s financed his Carlos Slim Foundation and the separate
Telmex Foundation to the tune of some $5 billion. He recently built a museum in Mexico City to house his $100 million collection of art by Auguste
Rodin, Salvador Dali and others. Entry is free.
Among his other endeavors are programs to post bail for first-time offenders, provide access to broadband for hundreds of thousands of students, and
pay for research into genetic factors that may lead to cancer and diabetes.
On two occasions since 2010, Slim has partnered in projects with Gates.
What brought the mega-titans together in Texcoco, 30 miles northeast of Mexico City, was their support for the International Maize and Wheat
Improvement Center, a research station that half a century ago was at the heart of the global “green revolution” that saved an estimated 1 billion
lives from starvation.
Slim put up $25 million for a new bioscience laboratory to bring world-class scientists to the station, which seeks to improve crop yields for poor
farmers.
Speaking at a news conference with Slim, Gates said large U.S. foundations were at the core of work by Norman Borlaug, the agronomist and humanitarian
who won the 1970 Nobel Peace Prize for developing high-yield cereal crop hybrids.
“Norman Borlaug’s salary came from that Rockefeller philanthropy,” Gates said, referring to the foundation set up by the family that made a fortune in
oil. “Foundation funding has been key. It’s a wonderful thing to have a huge impact.”
Gates, still relatively young at 57, is fond of looking back at the work of the Rockefellers, Fords, Mellons and Carnegies. He often gives away copies
of “The Gospel of Wealth,” an 1889 article by steel magnate Andrew Carnegie that suggests a rich man who dies without giving his wealth away dies in
disgrace.
The Gates Foundation has set lofty goals, such as eradicating polio by 2018. It has done more to combat malaria, AIDS and tuberculosis in Africa than
any other group in history. Its annual spending of some $3 billion to $4 billion is comparable to the budget this year of the World Health
Organization at $3.9 billion.
“He has been very strategic in tackling a relatively small number of issues to try to have a big impact,” said Patrick Rooney of Indiana University’s
School of Philanthropy.
Gates has pushed fellow billionaires to sign his “Giving Pledge,” which commits them to donate at least half of their wealth to philanthropic causes.
He’s won over scores of adherents, including Warren Buffett, the world’s third-richest man, who in 2006 committed $31 billion to the Gates Foundation.
Among those who haven’t signed on, though, is Slim, who says that tycoons should keep running their empires and employing workers.
“Why half?” Slim asked on CNBC in January 2011. “What we need to do as businessmen is to help solve the social problems. To fight poverty, but not by
charity.”
Even so, Slim has found some causes that he likes, including giving $50 million to the Mexican branch of the World Wildlife Fund, in part for its work
in restoring and protecting habitat of the migratory monarch butterfly.
His foundations also have given $100 million to the Alas Foundation set up by Colombian rock star Shakira to provide education to young people and to
the William J. Clinton Foundation to help small- and medium-sized businesses in Haiti.
Layton, the philanthropy scholar in Mexico City, said he sees little strategic vision to Slim’s giving.
“The donations seem almost random in terms of their amounts and their recipients,” he said. “In his public statements, he has repeatedly held that
philanthropy can do little to promote development, yet he has sought out opportunities to join with Bill Gates, Shakira and Bill Clinton in their
initiatives.
“This gives the impression that image and perception matter more than vision and substance in Slim’s giving.”
While Slim’s foundations are giving money, Layton said, “his heart’s just not in this.”
Read more here: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2013/02/14/183120/to-give-or-to-k...
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chuckie
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Now thats funny....His heart may not be in it, but his wallet sure is....
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wilderone
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"'The donations seem almost random in terms of their amounts and their recipients,” he said. “In his public statements, he has repeatedly held that
philanthropy can do little to promote development, yet he has sought out opportunities to join with Bill Gates, Shakira and Bill Clinton in their
initiatives.'"
Sounds like a kook. He doesn't have a personal drive and vision to focus his own philanthropic initiatives? As to bailing out Homex, if Loreto Bay
were an attractive investment or alternative lifestyle or easy vacation destination - as has all been touted for decades - then it would have happened
already.
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chuckie
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Why does he need one? Its his money, if he chooses to give 10,000 computers to the rural schools, or fund a first offender program, or what not, more
power to him. He could just as easily, get offended at someone calling him a kook, buy a place like Loreto Bay and let it sink into a slum...It seems
clear that wilderone read only an old opinion article written by an Academian, and not the biography.....I think many people like to bash Slim, and
Gates and others because they did what the bashers didnt...Or couldnt do....
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bajacalifornian
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"We need more people like him".... with a sidekick named Carlos Salinas de Gortari
American by birth, Mexican by choice.
Signature addendum: Danish physicist — Niels Bohr — who said, “The opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth.
Jeff Petersen
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MitchMan
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I can see Slim's philosophy being very effective for the betterment of society in the aggregate and in the long run so long as the use of his billions
circulating in business that he says creates jobs does not fall into monopolistic behavior, capturing markets and eliminating competition. Such
monopolistic behavior actually reduces employment, hurts the economy, reduces overall production, and keeps wages too low to sustain healthy living
for the vast majority of those so called "created jobs". Such behavior wildly enriches only a handful of people while furthering the impoverishment
of the many in the long run.
So, if Slim keeps his money engaged in actual productive investment without eliminating healthy competition, then a wider quantity of business
activity will be stimulated in addition to his own and many more people will be employed beyond simply his own employee base and wages will then have
a potential for being higher across the board. That way, a larger portion of the wealth that is created through production will find its way into the
pockets of the very employees that do all the work of said production. Now, THAT would be a good use of wealth.
So, the question I would have with regard to Slim's plans and motivations in preferring the use of his billions in future business activity instead of
giving away half of his wealth back to society is, "Is he going to engage in monopolistic business activity?"
And, the truthful answer is, "...
[Edited on 8-15-2013 by MitchMan]
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chuckie
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I think the truthful answer is no..He is not...And keep in mind his companies are not one man grocery stores. They are regulated by the counties they
do business in, including Mexico, as to rates and fees. Another interesting read is what the CEO of Telmex had to say on this subject. Carlos Slims
companies will not be allowed tocontinue as a virtual monopoly. When they bought out ATT and others, they invested Billions in technology upgrades,
and Telmex service today is awfully good. Will he continue to invest to further grow his corporate interests? Of course he will...Being successful
is not a sin....
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MitchMan
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If you limit the definition of "successful" to acquiring income and wealth through business activity, there are definitely successes that are sinful
and there are successes that are not sinful. Being successful is quite broad and generic and includes both sinful and sin free behavior. Plenty of
examples of both and you don't have to look very far.
When I hear someone has been "successful" in business, I don't automatically assume that such success was either sinful or sin free. If I don't have
any of the facts or details, I would generally give the situation the benefit of the doubt, as in "you're presumed innocent until proven guilty", but
I wouldn't say that it is realistic to say "success" per se, historically or into the future is, has been or will be at all free of sin.
In fact, one could say that business is such a fertile ground for sin that many, many measures have been instituted by society to fight and protect
against sin in business. That is what the auditing industry is all about, not to mention the preponderance of business law, antitrust, tort law,
contract law, Uniform Commercial Code, watchdog and consumer protection agencies, protection of third parties such as externalities (a third party
that is neither the buyer nor the seller gets harmed from the business transaction) etc., etc., etc.
[Edited on 8-15-2013 by MitchMan]
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chuckie
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Well said....I agree, however I didnt say no sins were committed, I said being successful in and of itself is not a sin.
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MitchMan
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Fair enough, chuckie. Agreed.
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wilderone
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"... many measures have been instituted by society to fight and protect against sin in business. That is what the auditing industry is all about, not
to mention the preponderance of business law, antitrust, tort law, contract law, Uniform Commercial Code, watchdog and consumer protection agencies,
protection of third parties such as externalities (a third party that is neither the buyer nor the seller gets harmed from the business transaction)"
In the United States.
".....I think many people like to bash Slim, and Gates and others because they did what the bashers didnt...Or couldnt do.... "
1. I wasn't "bashing" Slim.
2. That is a preposterous statement. Of course I am no Gates or Slim - not even a glimmer of a thought of the merest chance of what they have done.
In no way does this fact color my opinion. Your opinions in defense of Slim seem a bit over the top.
More power to him. I just think he's wasting his money in Loreto Bay. My previous posts prior to and during the construction of Loreto Bay has
proven me correct.
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J.P.
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| Quote: | | More power to him. I just think he's wasting his money in Loreto Bay. My previous posts prior to and during the construction of Loreto Bay has
proven me correct. |
Slim may very well be wasting his Money, As I see it the others failed because the scope of the project was quite possibly bigger than their pocket
Book. I don't think this will be the case with Slim. Hey may decide it was a bad idea and scrap the operation. too fail because of lack of funding
will not be the case.
as the success or failure's impact on Loreto will be minimal due to the location of the project it would appear it was never intended to be part of
Loreto .
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MitchMan
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Slim wasting his money. I see that as a good thing in one respect: he's putting money back into circulation. If it doesn't turn a profit, the
continuation of his investment will cease and probably be withdrawn at some point. If it turns a profit, his investment will remain, grow and the
business will self sustain as profits mean that the business pays for itself and the excess (i.e., profits) will go into Slim's pockets...win, win.
Personally, I don't care if Slim wastes his money; at least that wasted amount will go into circulation and into other people's pockets and that is
good as Slim has way, way more money than he needs to sustain a wildly comfortable life for himself and his family.
Presuming Slim is truly a skilled businessman and not just lucky (as many, though not most successful businesspeople, are), it is hard for me to
fathom that he would invest in something of this magnitude without first analyzing and doing a formal feasibility study. While the amount of his
investment is sizable - to you and me - it is a pittance to him.
Just for some perspective, the proposed merger between American Airlines and US Airways is purportedly at a cost of $22 Billion and the purchase of
the Washing Post cost $250 million...Bill Gates' net worth approximately $54 - $64 Billion and Slim's at $66 - $76 Billion. The US gives Egypt $1.55
Billion a year in aid and gives Israel over $3 Billion a year. If Gates, Slim, Buffet and the Walmart family got together, they could form their own
country, arm it to the hilt, and compete economically with Latvia and Panama.
Man, I hope Slim properly follows through with developing in Loreto. I would love to see long time residents fortified and benefit financially from
such investment. It would be fantastic if such development could be done methodically in a timely manner with great planning and in a way that
preserves the tranquility, beauty and quaintness that is signature Loreto.
While the investment may not be directly in the town of Loreto, there would certainly be an overflow effect directly to Loreto. At about the time of
the Financial Crisis in 2008, contractors, laborers, architects living in Loreto had prospered from development in Nopolo, Loreto Bay and points
south. The Mission hotel was redone, new hotels went up (Hacienda), there was new money invested in the malecon, real estate activity and prices
skyrocketed and a new hospital was built to satiate concerns for new foreign residents which also would serve the people of Loreto.
[Edited on 8-16-2013 by MitchMan]
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Aqsurfer
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Hola All,
Very good comments in this thread. Mitchman, you nailed it with your comment regarding investment (hopefully) generating benefits to locals,
thoughtful planning, and protecting the natural beuaty of Loreto. The great tragedy that this discussion brings to mind is that the peninsula is
basically in the hands of developers and mining interests. The track record so far is dismal.
With that said, Slim does have very smart people working for him and I hope that thoughtful development that benefits the larger community takes
place. Vamos a ver que pasa.
There is a backstory here regarding the ejdos, land tenure, and development on the penisula. There was a period when the conservation organizations
could have worked directly wth the ejidos to plan for sustainable development. In January, I gave a speech at the Aquarium of the Pacific in Long
Beach about this topic:
http://www.aquariumofpacific.org/multimedia/player/lecture_a...
I cover two main topics in the lecture: 1. over fishing impacts by decade; and 2. what happened when the ejidos were permitted to sell lands in fee
following the amendments of Article 27 of Mexico's Constitution (1972, '92 & '97). 1997 is the period when the Mitsubishi Salt project was being
fought over Laguna San Ignacio. In the following decade, the peninsula was up for grabs. During this time I worked in partnership with Mexican NGO
Pronatura on structuring innovative conservation models that directly benefitted local communities and land owners in exchange for conservation
agreements. We were a few signatures away from signing three 1-million acres deals with ejidos at the following sites: (1) the 1-million acre/130
mile coastline Ejido Tierra y Libertad - Bahia de los Angeles; (2) the 1-mllion acre Ejido La Purisima (including Bahia Concepcion [Slim now owns it],
a large swath of the Sierra de la Giganta, and the San Gregorio Wetland Complex); (3) the 1-million acre Laguna San Ignacio Wetland Complex. Only 10%
(approx) of the 3-million acres were protected, the breakdown took place due to tragic decisions at the director level of conservation groups. The
peninsula is in the hands of developers.
In 2006, the last major land battle over an ejido took place in Bahia de los Angeles (ejido Tierra y Libertad). BLA was lost in early 2008.
If anyone would like more details about what happened please post here or view the lecture video.
Peace,
Aqsurfer
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DianaT
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Aaron
I look forward to listening to your lecture just as soon as this slow connection loads.
Are you familiar with the work being done by http://www.terrapeninsular.org/
They are having more success all the time at bringing more and more of Baja under protection; different areas from where you worked.
They are good people.
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monoloco
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A 50 million dollar investment to Carlos Slim is like me investing the feria in my ashtray on lottery tickets.
"The future ain't what it used to be"
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Aqsurfer
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Hola Diana,
A few years ago, I was hired by folks in eastern San Diego county to look into the proposed massive wind energy project in the Sierra Juarez. The
Sempra's Energia Sierra Juarez (ESJ) project was in its planning stages and it was being used as a "green wash" marketing tool for the then proposed
Sunrise Powerlink (Imperial County to San Diego County). Don't believe the BS, that transmission line is all about fossil fuels - but that is another
topic.
I was one of the people that called for public hearing on the project. Lots of people for and against attended the hearing in Tecate. Following the
public comment period Mexico's environmental ministry SEMARNAT granted ESJ an environmental impact permit. I have seen some horrible enviro impact
permits but this was one of the worst. Once the decision was out, I thought that all the conservation groups working in Baja would step up to
challenge the approval. None did. None even visited the mountain ranges in question or talked to the folks that live at ground zero - the ejido
Jacume. I was the only person to go talk to them.
I worked with Mex attorney Rodrigo Jara in structuring a legal strategy to challenge the approval. The problem we had was convincing a Mexican
conservation group to present the challenge, we did all the heavy lifting. All we needed was a plaintiff. This allowed the statutory period for
presenting legal challenges to pass.
We were saved from the statutory period when we realized that SEMARNAT had failed to publish the enviro impact permit in the Diario Oficial (federal
register). After alot of hand ringing on their part, we finally convinced Terra to act as plaintiff. The challenge is currently being litigated by
Rodrigo Jara on behalf of Terra in the Tribunal Federal de Justicia Admistrativa. I left the effort in January. The ESJ effort is where Terra
originates their Sierra Juarez and San Pedro Martir. Simply raising awareness does not stop the onslaught - I will look for the map on the Mining
Secretary's website showing all the mining concessions in baja - its scary.
There are a few things that are important to understand with regard to land conservation in Baja. First, from the mid-1930s to the late '90s, the
ejidos were trapped in a system that denied them the right to raise capital by encumbering their lands and forced them to rely on the PRI for
handouts. This largely locked baja's biodiversity in place and made life tough for ejido folks. As we know life is tough on a ranch or working in
panga day-in, day-out.
Second, following Mitsubishi and the amendment to Article 27. The ejidos were receptive to leveraging their lands/biodiversity in exchange for
financial imputs. The ejidos were land rich and cash poor. Plus it was always very clear to me that many ejidos were going to become wealthy selling
lands, either to developers or conservation groups. This meant that I had to structure conservation agreements that could compete financially and
produce large-scale enviro protection. The best examples of this was the trust fund-conservation model that I developed for the Ejido Echeverria at
Laguna San Ignacio (high biodiveristy-low development potential) or the sustainable development model I attempted to implement in Bahia de los Angeles
(high biodiversity-high development potential). In BLA, I worked with David Younkman (former senior TNC vice prez) in developing a plan in
partnership with ejido members to take control of development. The ejido wanted $80 million USD. That is alot of money but not when compared against
the biodiversity value, development potential, or land sales values. Our plan would have permanently locked up 990,000 acres. The effort failed.
Since then, the folks in BLA have generated lots of income in land sales. This is the story throughout baja. Conservation ngo's have to come up with
new models that provide incentives capable of competing with development money, good urban planning, and generating significant conservation.
The current situation requires strong partnerships with communities for smart growth (Loreto, BLA, Asuncion, Abreojos, San Ignacio, etc) and aggressve
action in ejidos (100% not just targeted purchases) that have not been lost.
Peace,
Aqsurfer
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DianaT
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When we met you at the IB Lifeguard Station, I remember you telling some very interesting stories about your work and efforts in Baja. BTW --- we
have left Imperial Beach for the Owens Valley.
I do know that Terra Peninsular is responsible for the large piece of land north of El Rosario that is not under protection; or at least best as it
can. I also know they are working together with others on another very important piece of land and I hope it works.
I hope you are still in contact with Jamie and his family in Asuncion as they and their friends in the local Wildcoast group work hard with what they
have to improve the environment.
One thing that points to more possible development is the possible change in the Mexican Constitution that would allow foreigners to outright buy and
hold title to coastal land. It passed the Congress and will reach the Senate very soon.
Many people are holding off on buying property in Baja right now as if this passes, it will save them thousands of dollars!
[Edited on 8-18-2013 by DianaT]
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Aqsurfer
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Hola Diana,
You are absolutely correct about Article 27 - it is just a matter of time until foreign individuals can by land in fee.
Currenty, folks have been setting up Mex corporations and having that entity purchase lands in fee.
It will be interesting to see land tenure trends.
Next up for me in baja is organizing this year's lifeguard trip to Asuncion. Great first year last year, we were very impressed with folks that
helped organize and the participants. We will be there in early October.
Peace,
A
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DianaT
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Aqsurfer
Hola Diana,
You are absolutely correct about Article 27 - it is just a matter of time until foreign individuals can by land in fee.
Currenty, folks have been setting up Mex corporations and having that entity purchase lands in fee.
It will be interesting to see land tenure trends.
Next up for me in baja is organizing this year's lifeguard trip to Asuncion. Great first year last year, we were very impressed with folks that
helped organize and the participants. We will be there in early October.
Peace,
A |
Wish we were going to be there this year --- we can't even offer the use of our house again as we sold it! It was just so good to see it finally
happening.
I think the proposed new law is only for single family owner occupied properties which will end the need for the VERY costly Bank Trust. I think
developers will still need to buy through corporations, but then if they subdivide, build homes or condos, they would be able to sell them with
greater ease.
BTW--- not so long ago the local ejido was considering leasing some property for an oil refinery. Sure glad that didn't happen.
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