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captkw
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3850
Registered: 10-19-2010
Location: el charro b.c.s.
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Mood: new dog/missing the old 1
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Thank you Cisco
In my studies/reading I found that the truth of the matter is the Japanese had surrenderd 24 hrs before we bombed them..almost all americans say " we
dropped the bombs and ended the war and saved many lives" total BS.....that's akin to saying Columbus was the first white man on the north American
continent...and had a BIG dinner with a turkey with the Indians...LOL..LOL !! the history books are full of mistakes/lies/false truths....so go back
to watching that boob tube and carry on !!
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luv2fish
Nomad
Posts: 455
Registered: 5-8-2011
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Quote: Originally posted by blackwolfmt  | | Quote: Originally posted by David K | | Quote: Originally posted by luv2fish | | Quote: Originally posted by David K | | With a sea full of life, and life isn't forever, there will be a lot a death... always. We are all here for a relatively short time.
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No David, something is up, these dolphins don't just wash up dead. Last week I was reading another article on 150 adult sea turtles found dead at San
Ignacio Lagoon. I cant find it however. |
Yes, something is up... their time on Earth. Whatever the cause, all we can really do is examine the animals and take water samples... it isn't going
to change what's happened. If the cause is man created, like fertilizer runoff (I doubt it, no farms on the gulf coast of Baja anyway) then it will
take lot's of effort to get the Mexican farmers to change what they do. |
I think someone should throw professor DK out in that water and see what happens, it's human caused and DK is to
ignorant to see the writing on the wall,once again |
Cmon Dave, you're starting to sound like this fella.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9xoUbrRs1k
I think rather than make fun, we should all try to come together for the good of our planet, regardless of partisanship, citizenship, kinship or any
other kind of ship. 
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Cisco
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4196
Registered: 12-30-2010
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| Quote: Originally posted by David K | I am for real and not government dictated solutions to real problems.
I am still waiting for the location of "large-scale farms"...   |
Hi again David.
I really should read the whole thread instead of replying as I come across things. I could have included this in the other response to you.
"Large scale farms" to me includes aquaculture. To a large extent due to profession as a fisherman for most of my life.
The tuna pens are one example.
Regarding Salmon and that industry in the northern climes I am very aware.
Entrepreneur's (def: Screw You, yo Mama, the climate and the long-term health of the planet. I'm a-gonna get MINE. ALL OF IT!) decided this
'fish-farming' thing would be good for their bank account so started up.
I could write an essay regarding the consequences to the east and west coasts of the America's but for simplicity will keep it in Ged's area.
The Entrepreneur's (hereafter called "The Bad Guy's") decided that salmon pens in the 'inside' (SE Alaska) would make them a lot of money. We (The
Good Guy's) salmon fishermen of a fresh cold-water (cage-free) product told them to flock-off.
They went to Canada and were able to install hundreds of farms in the numerous, previously beautiful fjords of western canada fronting the inside
passage.
Well, the meat came out white as they were not getting their at-sea "real" food. They were getting pellets, chemically induced for growth. So they
added another chemical to make the flesh pink as it should be so that when you and your significant other pay a whole lot of money at a class
restaurant your salmon dish LOOKS like salmon, not a white chemically impregnated lump.
Then they had a crowding problem (gonna make money? gotta crowd) so the "product" started developing lesions and all kinds of bad fish fungus ugly
stuff so they added antibiotics to the mix.
That's what you eat today when you order Salmon. So, if YOUR flesh turns a little pink and you become resistant to antibiotics thank your local fish
farmer.
A contained mass of one million salmon in a fjord that does not regularly flush will produce the same amount of effluent as a human city of four
hundred thousand people.
This pile of chit lies on the bottom, contaminates the biomass overall and now we see killer whales and other mammals and sea life with wierd lesions
and other ailments.
It sucks! Thats a fish farm. Mexico has them.
Read Warrens wonderful book "Beautiful Swimmers" regarding the Chesapeake Bay. Written I believe in 1977 it predicted what was going to happen to the
bay. And it has.
Ten or twelve years ago I decided to go look at the Bay and the whole Eastern Seaboard as I had never been there. Bought a boat in Pensacola and spent
seven years wandering around the Caribbean, Bahamas and U.S. (up and down several times) inside and outside to DelMarva.
Warren was right, it's gone. It didn't have to be, we were warned and we are now. Same things that happened there are happening here. We're screwed!
No reason to debate. Carry-on, we're flocked.
Oh, Willapa just moved their oyster industry to Hawaii. Could no longer (after more than a hundred years) raise spat due to ocean acidification.
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SFandH
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7213
Registered: 8-5-2011
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Here's more on the research nomad blackwolfmt cited. Direct from the Stanford University website. Clear evidence that Mex SoC coastal farming is
causing harmful algae blooms.
Ocean ecosystems plagued by agricultural runoff
http://news.stanford.edu/news/2005/march16/gulf-030905.html
The study is 10 years old. Is the situation better, worse, or the same. I'd bet on worse, but................
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 65086
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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Thank you!
So, these farms are not in Baja, but in the Yaqui River system on the mainland, southern half of the gulf and closer to the open Pacific.
I wonder why mass die-offs in the San Felipe-Gonzaga area, 100's of miles north and on the opposite coast, are noted but none near the actual farms,
or on mainland beaches, or in southern Baja coasts?
Don't you wonder why this is, IF the farms are at fault... vs. other Natural causes???
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luv2fish
Nomad
Posts: 455
Registered: 5-8-2011
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| Quote: Originally posted by Cisco | | Quote: Originally posted by David K | I am for real and not government dictated solutions to real problems.
I am still waiting for the location of "large-scale farms"... |
Hi again David.
I really should read the whole thread instead of replying as I come across things. I could have included this in the other response to you.
"Large scale farms" to me includes aquaculture. To a large extent due to profession as a fisherman for most of my life.
The tuna pens are one example.
Regarding Salmon and that industry in the northern climes I am very aware.
Entrepreneur's (def: Screw You, yo Mama, the climate and the long-term health of the planet. I'm a-gonna get MINE. ALL OF IT!) decided this
'fish-farming' thing would be good for their bank account so started up.
I could write an essay regarding the consequences to the east and west coasts of the America's but for simplicity will keep it in Ged's area.
The Entrepreneur's (hereafter called "The Bad Guy's") decided that salmon pens in the 'inside' (SE Alaska) would make them a lot of money. We (The
Good Guy's) salmon fishermen of a fresh cold-water (cage-free) product told them to flock-off.
They went to Canada and were able to install hundreds of farms in the numerous, previously beautiful fjords of western canada fronting the inside
passage.
Well, the meat came out white as they were not getting their at-sea "real" food. They were getting pellets, chemically induced for growth. So they
added another chemical to make the flesh pink as it should be so that when you and your significant other pay a whole lot of money at a class
restaurant your salmon dish LOOKS like salmon, not a white chemically impregnated lump.
Then they had a crowding problem (gonna make money? gotta crowd) so the "product" started developing lesions and all kinds of bad fish fungus ugly
stuff so they added antibiotics to the mix.
That's what you eat today when you order Salmon. So, if YOUR flesh turns a little pink and you become resistant to antibiotics thank your local fish
farmer.
A contained mass of one million salmon in a fjord that does not regularly flush will produce the same amount of effluent as a human city of four
hundred thousand people.
This pile of chit lies on the bottom, contaminates the biomass overall and now we see killer whales and other mammals and sea life with wierd lesions
and other ailments.
It sucks! Thats a fish farm. Mexico has them.
Read Warrens wonderful book "Beautiful Swimmers" regarding the Chesapeake Bay. Written I believe in 1977 it predicted what was going to happen to the
bay. And it has.
Ten or twelve years ago I decided to go look at the Bay and the whole Eastern Seaboard as I had never been there. Bought a boat in Pensacola and spent
seven years wandering around the Caribbean, Bahamas and U.S. (up and down several times) inside and outside to DelMarva.
Warren was right, it's gone. It didn't have to be, we were warned and we are now. Same things that happened there are happening here. We're screwed!
No reason to debate. Carry-on, we're flocked.
Oh, Willapa just moved their oyster industry to Hawaii. Could no longer (after more than a hundred years) raise spat due to ocean acidification.
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Interesting stuff, we always believed that eating fresh seafood was good for our health, now with so much " Sustainable " farming of different
products we need to rethink what we eat.
https://www.organicconsumers.org/old_articles/madcow/fish190...
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blackwolfmt
Senior Nomad
Posts: 802
Registered: 1-18-2014
Location: On The Beach With A Blackwolf
Member Is Offline
Mood: dreamin of Riden out a hurricane in Baja
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| Quote: Originally posted by David K | Thank you!
So, these farms are not in Baja, but in the Yaqui River system on the mainland, southern half of the gulf and closer to the open Pacific.
I wonder why mass die-offs in the San Felipe-Gonzaga area, 100's of miles north and on the opposite coast, are noted but none near the actual farms,
or on mainland beaches, or in southern Baja coasts?
Don't you wonder why this is, IF the farms are at fault... vs. other Natural causes???
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Don't Ya think the toxins kinda move through out the SOC, And the Yaqui isn't the only problem, I'll bet your one of
them guys who sprays his fruit tree's with pesticides and says Where are the humming birds??
So understand dont waste your time always searching for those wasted years
face up and make your stand and realize that your living in the golden years
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blackwolfmt
Senior Nomad
Posts: 802
Registered: 1-18-2014
Location: On The Beach With A Blackwolf
Member Is Offline
Mood: dreamin of Riden out a hurricane in Baja
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I thought this was a great article on the decline of SOC fish
http://seawatch.org/reports/sea_of_cortez.php
So understand dont waste your time always searching for those wasted years
face up and make your stand and realize that your living in the golden years
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Cisco
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4196
Registered: 12-30-2010
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: Originally posted by David K | Thank you!
So, these farms are not in Baja, but in the Yaqui River system on the mainland, southern half of the gulf and closer to the open Pacific.
I wonder why mass die-offs in the San Felipe-Gonzaga area, 100's of miles north and on the opposite coast, are noted but none near the actual farms,
or on mainland beaches, or in southern Baja coasts?
Don't you wonder why this is, IF the farms are at fault... vs. other Natural causes???
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Experience is a hard teacher. She gives the test first, the lesson afterward.
Anonymous
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 65086
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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I am a curious person and like to know the facts, rather than jump to emotional quick theories. No excuse for using DDT or whatever is bad, but to
really find the ACTUAL reason for dying dolphins and boobies I want more data. Why are no dolphins and boobies washing up on mainland beaches like
they are near San Felipe, if the mainland farms are to blame?
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Cisco
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4196
Registered: 12-30-2010
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: Originally posted by David K | | I am a curious person and like to know the facts, rather than jump to emotional quick theories. No excuse for using DDT or whatever is bad, but to
really find the ACTUAL reason for dying dolphins and boobies I want more data. Why are no dolphins and boobies washing up on mainland beaches like
they are near San Felipe, if the mainland farms are to blame? |
Sometimes it takes awhile to figure it out David.
No idea personally but perhaps the confined waters as opposed to open ocean shores has something to do with it. As the pollution continues perhaps the
ocean will have enough crap in it to kill as the northern gulf does.
It is happening in Willapa as I indicated in another post.
May be a "secret" ingredient also as I learned when I was investigating the Chesapeake.
I wandered the entire bay, all of the estuarine systems, rivers, sloughs,...from Blackwater's digs in the south to the canal and up and down the
Potomac.
The Bay is an enclosed system although it is HUGE. With only the canal at the north end and Hampton Roads in the south it really cannot fill and empty
completely or correctly on a daily basis. Just too much water to move.
So, although agriculture has not increased on the bay the availability of cheap on the water homesites that are now (due to our system of roadways)
available to allow someone to work in D.C. or Richmond, Norfolk...and live on the water of the Northern Neck, utilizing pesticides, septic tanks, all
kinds of cleaners, detergents...all of which end up in The Bay make for a problem.
What population increase has the northern SOC experienced? Has the loss of Colorado 'flushing' water hurt it?
These people really don't give a damn. I kept hearing that the "small" amount of their footprint doesn't make a difference. Hmm. How about a million
and half 'new' footprints in the last two decades???
I stood on a fuel dock at c-ckrell's neck, a mile SW of Reedville, VA and watched the operator, he's a crabber also, should be environmentally
conscious to why he's not catching crabs like he used to (lot's of BS explanations for that one also) pump 85 gallons of bad fuel into The Bay from a
boat he had just fueled that didn't even get out of sight after fueling before quitting and being towed back to the fuel dock.
"That little bit of fuel in this big bay don't make no nevermind". Then he lit up a cigarette and I ran for it. Stench of fuel everywhere. That's the
attitude and it's killed the bay.
Now for the "more later" and the "secret ingredient".
As I was standing on that fuel dock I looked east at the Omega Protein reduction plant and it's aircraft spotter field and it hit me. Flash,
lightning, dumb chit why didn't you see it before kind of revelation.
Omega Protein, out of Houston, TX (and I can tell 100 pages on this one but for our purposes here is the short deal) load millions of tons of Menhaden
into surplus Navy refer ships, bring them here, unload and reduce them. They use planes to spot schools as we do on the West coast for bait fish or
sticking broadbill.
They have fished out the Chesapeake and now must make longer trips outside The Bay and into the Atlantic for their Menhaden.
Here's whats up.
Menhaden are a very oily fish. When you take your fish oil pill you are ingesting Menhaden probably, they are the largest supplier. They are reduced
for paint additives, fertilizers, cat foods, FISH FOOD in pellet form for aquaculture, human health oils as mentioned and....
The Secret Ingredient:
Menhaden are omnivorous filter feeders. They kept The Bay clean and oxygenated so we did not notice the additional influx of humans chit and chemicals
into The Bay.
Omega took ALL of the fish from The Bay. Now there are algal blooms, large areas of un-oxygenated water killing oysters, crabs, clams, scallops,....
Because of a slight increase in human pollution and a terribly short-sighted LARGE increase of human greed by Texas removing this one barrier to
disaster of The Bay the dominoes fell.
The Bay, is NO MORE!
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 65086
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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Thank you Cisco!
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motoged
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6481
Registered: 7-31-2006
Location: Kamloops, BC
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Mood: Gettin' Better
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Cisco,
Thanks for the personal and factual info.....it certainly provides some meat to the recognition that our consumerism and its effects are
unbridled....much of the time.
As for the aquaculture in the Inside Passage in BC....sea lice thrived in the fish farms to an extent where they were infecting wild salmon on their
migratory routes and creating significant problems not experienced prior to fish farms.
Don't believe everything you think....
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AKgringo
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6123
Registered: 9-20-2014
Location: Anchorage, AK (no mas!)
Member Is Online
Mood: Retireded
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| Quote: Originally posted by David K | | I am a curious person and like to know the facts, rather than jump to emotional quick theories. No excuse for using DDT or whatever is bad, but to
really find the ACTUAL reason for dying dolphins and boobies I want more data. Why are no dolphins and boobies washing up on mainland beaches like
they are near San Felipe, if the mainland farms are to blame? |
Spring break is coming up. You are liable to see more 'boobies' on the beach than normal!
If you are not living on the edge, you are taking up too much space!
"Could do better if he tried!" Report card comments from most of my grade school teachers. Sadly, still true!
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 65086
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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Yes, but do they have BLUE feet???
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AKgringo
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6123
Registered: 9-20-2014
Location: Anchorage, AK (no mas!)
Member Is Online
Mood: Retireded
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Maybe, is the water cold?
If you are not living on the edge, you are taking up too much space!
"Could do better if he tried!" Report card comments from most of my grade school teachers. Sadly, still true!
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Cisco
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4196
Registered: 12-30-2010
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The importance of "WE"
[Edited on 3-15-2015 by Cisco]
I hate this "new" server.
[Edited on 3-15-2015 by Cisco]
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Cisco
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4196
Registered: 12-30-2010
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The importance of WE
Nope!
Still will not post copied material from my notes, not website stuff.
[Edited on 3-15-2015 by Cisco]
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Whale-ista
Super Nomad
Posts: 2009
Registered: 2-18-2013
Location: San Diego
Member Is Offline
Mood: Sunny with chance of whales
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Welcome & thanks for posting
Happy to have you join us and offer your perspectives- sorry it is on a morbid topic.
I was in Bahia in 1995 and there were 2 rescued pelican chicks at the sea turtle facility (not sure if it's still there?).
These 2 chicks had been rescued from a nearby island- and they were the ONLY chicks to survive that year after two epic "el ninyo" events (avoiding
the special character problem) that prevented the parents from finding enough food to keep chicks alive.
We are now "officially" in an ENSO event- but one that is hot & dry vs. hot & wet. Animals all over the Pacific are suffering and dying from
lack of food. Sea lions and seals are being rescued in record #s all along the CA coast.
Yes this is a "natural" cycle of events. But add to that long-term overfishing of sardines, by-catch of other species, pollution, collisions, etc.
etc. and things aren't quite as "natural" as they have been in the past when these die-offs also occurred. Today, animals can't recover as quickly,
and their populations are also smaller.
Yes, humans are "part of nature." But not always for the better when it comes to survival of many fish, marine mammals etc.
| Quote: Originally posted by Bajasun222 | | This is my first post on Baja Nomads. We have lived in the Punta Bufeo area for 14 years and we have never experienced as many dead dolphins and sea
birds as we have in the last two months. About 4-5 weeks ago we loaded more than 200 birds (blue-footed Boobies, pelicans, shore birds, cormorants)
out to the desert and 10 dolphins. There are more than 15 dead dolphins in about a 1 mile stretch that we didn't haul. One dolphin just washed in with
a tight nylon rope around its' belly and 20' more of rope behind it.....we saw the red tide in late January/early February. It was bad. But what I
can't explain is why only some birds, no seagulls, were affected, no dead fish, and only one seal? We had so many panga's in the water it looked like
a city. It seems like a combination of man and nature. We are hoping the moratorium on commercial fishing will be enforced and nature will take her
course. Thanks for allowing me to share. |
\"Probably the airplanes will bring week-enders from Los Angeles before long, and the beautiful poor bedraggled old town will bloom with a
Floridian ugliness.\" (John Steinbeck, 1940, discussing the future of La Paz, BCS, Mexico)
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Whale-ista
Super Nomad
Posts: 2009
Registered: 2-18-2013
Location: San Diego
Member Is Offline
Mood: Sunny with chance of whales
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Sea of Cortez currents/tidal flow...it's complicated
David- I can understand why you have questions/doubts about where these potentially toxic ag wastes wind up- many people do.
The lead researcher on the cruise I did last year in the North Pacific, (he's based out of Monterey) has studied the currents in the SoC. He has
tremendous respect for how complicated they are- and he's done his research for decades.
They flow one direction in winter, another in summer, get mixed around islands, and then add a few hurricanes etc. to the mix and it gets complex.
What most agree on: There's a lot of transport of agricultural waste etc. throughout the Sea that no one can accurately track without a lot more
research- and it's difficult to get funding to do that, to really understand what's going on
Here's an excerpt from a book that gives a glimpse of these complex tidal interactions:
[img]
| Quote: Originally posted by David K | Thank you!
So, these farms are not in Baja, but in the Yaqui River system on the mainland, southern half of the gulf and closer to the open Pacific.
I wonder why mass die-offs in the San Felipe-Gonzaga area, 100's of miles north and on the opposite coast, are noted but none near the actual farms,
or on mainland beaches, or in southern Baja coasts?
Don't you wonder why this is, IF the farms are at fault... vs. other Natural causes???
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\"Probably the airplanes will bring week-enders from Los Angeles before long, and the beautiful poor bedraggled old town will bloom with a
Floridian ugliness.\" (John Steinbeck, 1940, discussing the future of La Paz, BCS, Mexico)
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