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Bajahowodd
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9274
Registered: 12-15-2008
Location: Disneyland Adjacent and anywhere in Baja
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Woooosh
| Quote: | Originally posted by Cypress
The boat went down. Happens every now and then. Rogue wave or waves did it to it. Blame the boat, the crew, the captain, the weather. Happens every
now and then. Rogue wave or waves ............
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Same with airliners. Caca Pasa. |
I mentioned way back, but I'm motivated to repeat. Americans have created a culture that involves the blame game.
Somebody has to pay for this!
Even if the truth is that it was virtually unavoidable.
Insurance companies use the term "act of God".
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Skeet/Loreto
Ultra Nomad
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David: The story about the San Felipe is in the Section about That area. The other is in the Midriff Section. I will look them up tommorrow and post
the Numbers.
After spending so many years on the Sea of Cortez, in my Opinion the Erick looked a little Top heavy. But I am an Ole Timer who does not jump right in
and start "Blaming people". I was in the Middle of a Whip Storm that Hit Loreto and know what can Happen.
There were 11 Pangaeros out fishing that morning with out any Idea of the Storm happening.
The very Short and fast Moving Waves would suddenly change Directions. It blew two Pangas Loaded with Fisherman completely to the Top of the Beach.
First time I ever saw Water that close to the palapa. I was holding two windows and the Wind took them apart without breaking the Glass.Hinges and
Screws.
Wwood, as happens so much these days the first thing people{some People} start Blaming and calling People Names. Too Bad.
May God be with all those who did not Survive.
Skeet/Loreto
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toneart
Ultra Nomad
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Skeet-
Are Whip Winds different than Chabascos?
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bonanza bucko
Senior Nomad
Posts: 587
Registered: 8-31-2003
Location: San Diego
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Re "The Blame Game:"
I have a buddy who lives in The Bay Area (San Francisco Bay) who has told me the following stuff about the news coverage of this tragedy there...they
are very interested because many of those aboard were from that area:
1.)News reports on TV and in the print press displayed anger and wonder why "Alfonsina's Resort didn't dispatch their helicopter" when the accident
was reported.
2.)Another report on TV said that Erik sank "In the Gulf of Mexico."
3.)Some reports thought that the pangueros who were trying to rescue the people in the water were Mexican gummint officials
4.)It was reported that some of the men who were overboard from Erik had used their cell phones to call for help....nobody could imagine that anywhere
on earth was deprived of cell phone coverage
5.)The sinking took place "near San Felipe."
Now, this stuff is just another disgusting example of the complete incompetence and/or laziness of the press in The Bay Area...and everywhere else
too. They pretty easily could have gotten much more of the straight scoop by a look at a map of Baja, a call to a Mexican consulate or a quick visit
to this web site.
BB :-(
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Skeet/Loreto
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Good Post Bucko:
I am begining to think that as I read the "Cowards" words blaming everything on the Captain or GWB. theat they are actuall y "Cowards" who would never
take a chance to do anything unless they were Guranteed by the Govt. some Money if they go Hurt.
Bucko, I know that you are a Pilot and still remember meeting you at St. Innez so many years ago. All the time you were flying back and forth to the
Bay, and I flying around Loreto I never remember thinking that someone else or a Govt. was responsible for my Actions.
I feel very sorry for those Poor Souls, How do they sleep at nite worried about there Poor Lives with no Adventure, No Risk, NoSense, No Love!!
Yes , one part of our Society is going to Hell in a Handbasket, setting around their Computer, blaming everything that happens on Something. How
Childish can they be???
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Skeet/Loreto
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Toneart:
Yes: The Chabascos most alwasys come from the South and are usually a straight line Wind. Most of the time you can see them coming and get into safe
cover or get your Panga pulled up, The Waves are of long lenght.
The "Whip Storm is formed out in the middle of the Sea or as in the case of 1967 San Felipe about 30 miles South.
It acts very similar to a Tornado forming on the water and moving toward the Shoreline.
The Waves formed or Short but powerfull and change directions rapidly.
From the Sea Guides and Sailing Directions the Sea of Cortez is the only place that kind of Storm Forms.
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BajaNews
Super Moderator
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Fishermen recount surviving Sea of Cortez sinking
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iNDSxsb07O...
By PAUL ELIAS
SAN FRANCISCO (AP) � By Friday, most of the survivors of a Sea of Cortez fishing trip that turned deadly had straggled home to Northern California,
carrying harrowing tales of being lost at sea for hours.
"It is something I will never forget," said Gary Wong of Berkeley. Wong spent more than 15 hours floating on a safety ring and paddling to shore after
the 105-foot fishing boat Erik sank after getting hit by two big waves during a violent storm early Sunday morning.
In all, 19 U.S. fishermen � mostly from Northern California on an annual Fourth of July trip � and 16 Mexican crew members made it safely to dry land.
One man, Leslie Yee of Ceres, was found drowned on a remote island beach and seven other Americans remain missing.
Pius "Pete" Zuger of Novato said the trouble began at 10 p.m. Saturday, several hours after the fisherman boarded for the weeklong fishing excursion.
That's when the weather began to turn nasty and the wind began to blow hard from the southeast. The locals call it "El Torito" � little bull � because
the storm packs such a powerful punch.
Zuger said he was awakened around 2:30 a.m. by cabin mate Jim Miller who was screaming, "The boat is sinking, get out!"
Zuger, 73, jumped out of the top bunk as the ship listed dramatically. He considered putting on his pants with money in a water proof wallet, but put
on his swim suit instead.
"I had no doubt that there was going to be swimming involved," Zuger said.
His cabin was on the ship's deck, and Zuger wasted little time jumping into the 80-degree water of the Sea of Cortez.
Zuger was floating on an ice chest when one of the Erik's smaller fishing boats known as a panga appeared, listing badly and partially submerged. But
Zuger clambered aboard with another fisherman, Joe Beeler. Then they bailed out the powerless 20-foot boat, which would prove to be the salvation of
13 castaways.
Their best chance for quick rescue was if the crew managed to transmit a distress signal before the Erik sank. But Zuger and Beeler hoped for the best
and prepared for the worst, collecting seaweed for fishing line and stowing tiny crabs found on the plants.
"The first thing we said to each other after settling in is that we are together. We made a pact to stay together," Zuger said in a phone interview
Friday from his Novato home.
When dawn broke and there were no helicopters in the air or boats on the horizon, the pair knew no signal had been given. The captain and crew said
later that they had no time to send an SOS because the boat had sunk so quickly after getting knocked on its side by a big wave. A second wave knocked
the ship completely over.
Mexican officials said the cause of the capsizing is under investigation, and a report on the accident should be ready in about 10 days.
"We're reviewing the records of the ship, but I can tell you it had a steel hull, and it had been operating for years in this area," said Jose Luis
Rios Hernandez, Port Captain in Ensenada who is helping with the investigation. "The truth is that the weather conditions (the Erik faced) could have
done the same to any boat of that size."
Zuger, who spent six years as a machinist in the Swiss merchant marine in the 1960s, and other fishermen complained that the crew didn't alert the
passengers to the sinking and that all the crew had life vests but most of the passengers had to fend for themselves.
Baja Sportsfishing Inc., which owns the Erik, didn't respond to phone and email messages Friday. Crew members told investigators that the boat sank
too fast to sufficiently warn all the passengers.
Alejandro Bermudez, 32, an assistant cook on the boat, said the crew assisted passengers.
"The first thing we did was to open the tourists' cabins and shout that they needed to get out," Bermudez said. "We helped some of them put their life
vests on; others already had them on because they were woken up when the boat got on its side."
Zuger went into the water without a vest. So did Gary Wong of Berkeley, who said his brother woke him up to the peril.
Unlike Zuger, the four Wong brothers' berth was in the bottom of the Erik and they were among the last to leave the ship.
With the port side sinking fast, Wong made it to the deck. He grabbed a rail on the starboard side and held tight as the water rose.
"Help me, help me," Wong heard from the bottom of the increasingly sloped deck. He could see a fellow fisherman pinned between two cabinets, unable to
move.
And then, just like that, Wong was washed into the Sea of Cortez. "I can't believe I'm going to die a day after retiring," said Wong, a Berkeley
resident who retired July 1 from his job as a senior water treatment operator for the East Bay Municipal Utility District.
When he surfaced, Wong made his way to a raft and a large safety ring lashed together. A crew member pulled him aboard the ring, and they were soon
joined by fellow fisherman Jim Miller.
Once aboard, he began to get sick and shake from the chills. He said he vomited on the back of Miller, who laughed it off and allowed Wong to bear hug
for several hours in an attempt to warm up.
By dawn, the raft and ring were full of crew and passengers. Wong said the crew began to squabble among themselves over which direction to paddle. The
crew decided to cut the ring from the raft and they went separate ways.
Wong had earlier fished his ice chest from the water � and it contained orange juice and vitamin water that they rationed. The fluids were rationed
throughout the day.
After floating for more than 10 hours, the people on the ring spotted Zuger's panga and frantically hailed it. The two parties were united.
Late Sunday afternoon, Zuger took command. With the fishermen using cooler lids as paddles, the panga finally landed on a remote beach, and Zuger and
Beeler reached a house a mile away.
The occupants, a family from Chula Vista, Calif., rushed down the beach in their jeep and scooped up the rest of the castaways. The family served the
bedraggled group "the most delicious ceviche" and water. They offered clothes and shoes.
"They were so gracious," Zuger said. "They were the most wonderful, helping people."
About 90 minutes later, an Army helicopter landed on the beach nearby and the castaways had been rescued.
Two of Wong's brothers made it to shore while his brother, Brian, remains among the missing.
----
Associated Press writers Olga Rodriguez in Mexico City and Mariana Martinez in San Felipe contributed to this report.
----
Photo:
Bruce Yee, student of letters in Beijing, 39, son of Les Yee, who died at the accident of the fishing vessel the Erik, which capsized Sunday, walks at
the beach of Punta Bufeo, Mexico, Thursday, July 7, 2011. (Photo by Alexandre Meneghini)
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BajaNews
Super Moderator
Posts: 1439
Registered: 12-11-2005
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Search Goes on in Baja
http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/Search-Goes-on-in-Baja-...
Jul 10, 2011
The U.S. Coast Guard said it will continue to aid in search efforts Sunday for a charter fishing boat carrying Bay Area residents that sank a week
ago off the Baja California Coast.
The Coast Guard C-130 Hercules aircrew, which was brought into the search at the request of the Mexican navy, completed its fifth search Saturday of
a 1,019-square mile area in the Sea of Cortez near Isla San Luis, Mexico, Coast Guard officials said.
The Coast Guard has searched approximately 3,200 square miles of ocean and land, working with the Mexican navy and federal police. No signs of the
seven people still missing from the boat have been found, according to the Coast Guard.
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wessongroup
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21152
Registered: 8-9-2009
Location: Mission Viejo
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Mood: Suicide Hot line ... please hold
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"quick visit to this web site"
Ditto's ... this place kicks into another gear when "trouble" arises...
Plus the coverage ain't too bad either.... I'm sure more than a few have relatives and/or friends all over the country of Mexico... that would to help
too...
Thanks to all... as it all helps... and sure is fun to watch happen...
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Bajahowodd
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9274
Registered: 12-15-2008
Location: Disneyland Adjacent and anywhere in Baja
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"fun"?
Perhaps a poor choice of words????
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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| Quote: | Originally posted by BajaNews
Photo:
Bruce Yee, student of letters in Beijing, 39, son of Les Yee, who died at the accident of the fishing vessel the Erik, which capsized Sunday, walks at
the beach of Punta Bufeo, Mexico, Thursday, July 7, 2011. (Photo by Alexandre Meneghini) |
So sad. DEP
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monoloco
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6667
Registered: 7-13-2009
Location: Pescadero BCS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
Good Post Bucko:
I am begining to think that as I read the "Cowards" words blaming everything on the Captain or GWB. theat they are actuall y "Cowards" who would never
take a chance to do anything unless they were Guranteed by the Govt. some Money if they go Hurt.
Bucko, I know that you are a Pilot and still remember meeting you at St. Innez so many years ago. All the time you were flying back and forth to the
Bay, and I flying around Loreto I never remember thinking that someone else or a Govt. was responsible for my Actions.
I feel very sorry for those Poor Souls, How do they sleep at nite worried about there Poor Lives with no Adventure, No Risk, NoSense, No Love!!
Yes , one part of our Society is going to Hell in a Handbasket, setting around their Computer, blaming everything that happens on Something. How
Childish can they be??? |
Come on Skeet, you were in the navy, you should know that when mistakes are made on
a ship it's the captain who is responsible. It's pretty obvious that many mistakes were made that turned what should have just been a rough night at
sea into a tragedy.
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Skipjack Joe
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8088
Registered: 7-12-2004
Location: Bahia Asuncion
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One factor that greatly increases the size of the waves in the upper Cortez is current. When the current is flowing in a direction opposite to the
wind large seas are generated. The size of these waves is in direct proportion to the two opposing forces.
I used to think that these waves built up locally over submerged reefs but in fact they occur in the deep main channels as well. We watched them
appear and diminish every day.
So when the question is asked how a 50' wave was created in the cortez with a short fetch - that could account for some of it.
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wessongroup
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21152
Registered: 8-9-2009
Location: Mission Viejo
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Mood: Suicide Hot line ... please hold
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajahowodd
"fun"?
Perhaps a poor choice of words???? |
Was thinking of positive examples of working together to help others... here on the board... like helping Mike out on his trip.. Bio Sphere's, real
estate, animals, auto repair, et al .... ...
Death .... is what it is... and my feelings for the family are only ones of heartfelt sadness, and a wish of "strength" in dealing with their loss...
The reason really don't matter, at this point in time, only if we can learn something, which could prevent something like this in the future ... IMHO
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Roberto
Banned
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I have seen that effect many times myself. Frequently in the deep channel between Angel de la Guarda and the peninsula. I have also been caught in
sudden, steep seas in the wind tunnel between Punta Remedios and Los Machos on the big island. Killer. But I still have a hard time believing a 50'
wave was formed. Not impossible, just doubtful. It would be such an unusual occurrence that local folks would have seen some consequence I think. But
with open hatches a 20' wave set abeam would be plenty I think.
Of course, I wasn't there, as Skeet was.
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 19195
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
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Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
I am an Ole Timer who does not jump right in and start "Blaming people". |
no one is blaming people. people are just opining, but let me be first to blame:::
skeet: the capt and crew have to be to blame. there is no such thing as an accident. the skiffs were stored upright, and doors were open - waves
filled boat(s), leading to sinking.
p.s. re wave height - doesn't matter what average wave height was, mattters what max wave height was. rogue waves are stacked waves, they happen,
they are unexpected, they cause problems for people not prepared for unexpected.
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vgabndo
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3461
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Location: Mt. Shasta, CA
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Mood: Checking-off my bucket list.
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If the port authority recommended against sailing into those predicted weather conditions...sure as hell someone is at fault. The fish can wait,
alcohol fueled fishermen 500 miles from home sometimes can't. About twenty grand had already been spent, right?
This from someone who has only once been on a Mexican boat that had a life preserver on it. Many times I put my life in the hands of a trusted boatman
when I was too (insert: proud, macho, stupid) to bring my own bulky PDF down from the truck.
I'm sorry for the great loss to so many, I would hope that some of those who didn't come back might agree with me that "you can't call it an adventure
if there is no uncertainty."
[Edited on 7-11-2011 by vgabndo]
Undoubtedly, there are people who cannot afford to give the anchor of sanity even the slightest tug. Sam Harris
"The situation is far too dire for pessimism."
Bill Kauth
Carl Sagan said, "We are a way for the cosmos to know itself."
PEACE, LOVE AND FISH TACOS
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
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| Quote: | Originally posted by vgabndo
If the port authority recommended against sailing into those predicted weather conditions...sure as hell someone is at fault.
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this story about harbormaster warning smells fishy. i really doubt the local harbormaster has a good weather forecast and weather radar. can anyone
point to any useful weather forecast or weather info for SOC? i doubt harbormaster knew of a big enough storm that he would warn a large boat like
the erick. i doubt any storm had formed at time of departure - that storm came 6 hours later.
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David K
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Saturday was a calm, clear day south of San Felipe... None could imagine the hurricane force winds that would hit that evening... It was a 'whip
storm' alright... We scrambled to take down our 'easy-up' sun shade and couldn't do it fast enough before the wind buckled the legs. The camp fire we
were enjoying was blowing embers before we could cover it and Kristi's sleeping bag blew into the fire from where it was 20 feet away. The glassy sea
turned to pounding surf in minutes. The strong winds and blowing sand lasted hours and only calmed as the sky was getting light the next morning. Why
I called my trip report 'Freaky Fourth'...
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Skipjack Joe
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When currents are involved it seems that the length of the waves (distinace from crest to crest) become shorter and the height of the waves grows as
well. A sort of compression seems to be occuring. The result being that the waves are more packed and come at you sooner. The shorter wave length
gives the wave a more vertical appearance and the crest breaks over the front. Such waves are way more dangerous because you have to climb their face
to get past (or break through).
I speak from experience as the day after this accident we motored our 14'2" boat across the 10 mile channel from the island. Took every ounce of
concentration for 2+ hours to make it back. Every individual wave had to be assessed and attacked the right way. No way would I want to be in that
situation in total darkness.
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