| Pages:
1
..
10
11
12
13
14
..
35 |
paranewbi
Senior Nomad
Posts: 913
Registered: 4-15-2011
Location: San diego
Member Is Offline
|
|
ateo- an interesting and easy reading by a non-believer, large city reporter and trained attorney- Lee Strobel. You can research him on the net and
follow through with readings of those scholars he sought out. Sorry, nothing will 'clear this up' and to state why would only draw a misunderstanding.
We take from it what we want.
Diana T - a sentiment I don't agree with. My studies and personal experiance have led to me to a conclusion that is undeniable and to waffle on ones
own discovery is what ends truth and allows relativism. Sorry 1 + 1 does equal 2. Maybe read the above authors own discovery.
vandenberg- long time ago when my friends' mother learned that I was a Christian, she exclaimed to me that she had read the Bible and found it to be
the most pornographic book she had ever read. Maybe you should open it with that hand and click off the porno :0)
|
|
|
Ken Bondy
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3326
Registered: 12-13-2002
Member Is Offline
Mood: Mellow
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
| Quote: | Originally posted by Ken Bondy
Ooops, sorry I offended you paranewbi, and here I thought you wanted to meet me, now upon rereading your post I see you really wanted to meet
Bajafun777  . Silly me.
|
Thas OK, Ken. I'll meet you.
By the way....did I tell you they tore down the round, frond roofed restaurant between Ensenada and Maneadero? I remember you used to mention that
place.
Does this qualify as a hijack? I sure hope so. All of this nonsense is Skeet's fault....and he doesn't even know it. |
Thanks DENNIS. I am so glad you are willing to meet me. I was really getting depressed.
Yes you did tell me about that restaurant, I think it was called Mariscos Sinaloenses. I was sorry to hear it is gone, it was a favorite stop on our
trips in the early 2000s.
All the best and thanks again,
++Ken++
carpe diem!
|
|
|
DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Offline
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by Ken Bondy
Yes you did tell me about that restaurant, |
Yeah....I knew I had. Just going for a convenient diversion. 
|
|
|
standingwave
Nomad
Posts: 182
Registered: 11-10-2007
Location: Lytton, Canada
Member Is Offline
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by paranewbi
Illyfish.
I am not in anything all together with you.
Please do not tell me what I am.
Yes, I am not afraid to say those words either.
I am not one of you.
The reason I say this is because of the one thing that seperates the God of the Bible from all other 'religions'.
I am forgiven. |
whew!
self forgiveness works for me (well, sometimes) I wholeheartedly recommend it.
so, paranewbi.... what planet are you from? seriously. You say to Iflyfish "I am not in anything all together with you." But Iflyfish is talking about
being human on earth, you deny even that amount of commonality.
So, alien, where's your planet? And why are so many of you here, making such a mess out of mine.
\"I could not help concluding this man had the most supreme pleasure while he was driven so fast and so smoothly by the sea.\"
James Cook |
|
|
Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: optimistic
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by DianaT
| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
| Quote: | Originally posted by DianaT
--- Barry, the founders of the US were mostly a part of the liberal religious traditions of the time. They were Diests and children of the
enlightenment ---- they were not the fundamentalist Christians that some like to think they were. Even George Washington, while claiming to be an
Anglican did not take communion.
[Edited on 6-10-2012 by DianaT] |
Diane----------You appear to be assuming things, and projecting thoughts in my mind that don't exist and interpretations of what I wrote that are
incorrect---------I never mentioned "fundamentalist Christians", and have no problems or disagreements with what you wrote above in general------and,
I stand by what I originally wrote. I believe that this Nation was founded ( & settled) on Christian-Judeo principals, defined in it's broadest
sense. You can nit-pick that if you like, but it does not change my conclusions.
Barry |
Sorry, I did not mean to indicate that you were referring to fundamentalists --- but too many people today do, and I would argue that this country was
founded far more on Roman and Greek traditions and the philosophies of the Enlightenment with the Judeo-Christian principles a small part as was the
influence of the Iroquois Nation.
[Edited on 6-10-2012 by DianaT] |
As I read the founding writings and documents of this Country, and observe inscriptions on our most important Monuments, I see no mention of the
"Iroquois Nation", but I see significant mention of Judeo-Christian basic phylosophy---------the comparison or inference is specious, at least to me.
Having said that, I have great respect for the Iroquois Nation, and always have.
Further, as an example of where I am coming from, I agree & revere some things that the Progressives state they stand for, and I very much
disagree with many other things they say they stand for------------so I continue to resist those things that I don't approve of on their
agenda---------but I don't condemn Progressives to the point of wanting to eliminate them--------like Christians (and Athiests), they are a part of
our society, like it or not, and they do contribute. I except that, and try to embrace their good ideas, of which there are many, but will continue
to resist where I think they are wrong.
Barry
|
|
|
paranewbi
Senior Nomad
Posts: 913
Registered: 4-15-2011
Location: San diego
Member Is Offline
|
|
Standingwave- once again staying true to my beliefs. It does not require explanation other than what is written in the Bible. I do declare that this
is what I base my life on...as a work in progress (to be truthful) and for a person who has read the bible to question my statements would lead me to
believe they have not read the Bible.
If a person has not read the Bible then I do not expect they would understand the context of the statement.
I did not respond in the way you received it and I can't do anything about that. I am not a 'member' of this world and do not believe anyone on this
planet can change the course it is on. In that frame I do not participate in man's endeavour to 'make' it to mans liking.
I even surf with some Brothers who SUP their way into the waves...although I don't, and by the way they would say the same to you. Just as you choose
to SUP, they would say they are not one of you and would request not to be included in your endeavours.
Also, if someone would like to state that this is why many have suffered for not being 'one of my kind', take note that has worked both ways, ask
Nero.
|
|
|
Cypress
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7641
Registered: 3-12-2006
Location: on the bayou
Member Is Offline
Mood: undecided
|
|
It's a beautiful world! Tomorrow is another day. The fish may or may not be biting, the sun may or may not be shining, but life is good. And all you
atheists, agnostics, Christians, Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Buddhist? Enjoy it!
|
|
|
wessongroup
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21152
Registered: 8-9-2009
Location: Mission Viejo
Member Is Offline
Mood: Suicide Hot line ... please hold
|
|
Ditto's ..
|
|
|
Ateo
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5901
Registered: 7-18-2011
Member Is Offline
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by paranewbi
ateo- an interesting and easy reading by a non-believer, large city reporter and trained attorney- Lee Strobel. You can research him on the net and
follow through with readings of those scholars he sought out. Sorry, nothing will 'clear this up' and to state why would only draw a misunderstanding.
We take from it what we want.
|
Yeah, I know of Lee Strobel the apologist. A rebuttal to every Strobel assertion can be found at:
http://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=The_Case_for_Ch...
|
|
|
DianaT
Select Nomad
Posts: 10020
Registered: 12-17-2004
Member Is Offline
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by paranewbi
Diana T - a sentiment I don't agree with. My studies and personal experiance have led to me to a conclusion that is undeniable and to waffle on ones
own discovery is what ends truth and allows relativism. Sorry 1 + 1 does equal 2. Maybe read the above authors own discovery.
|
OK, so you believe you know the truth.
A couple of questions, which "books" do you believe should be included in the bible?
Which translation of which books do you follow?
Which version of which translation do you follow?
Upon whom do you depend on for knowing the correct reading of the bible?
Whose interpretation of the bible do you think is correct, the Catholics, the Lutherans, the Evangelicals, the Baptist, the Amish or who?
If there is one correct reading, translation, and interpretation, there must be a lot of people who consider themselves Christian who are wrong?
Curious.
[Edited on 6-10-2012 by DianaT]
|
|
|
Lee
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3508
Registered: 10-2-2006
Location: High in the Colorado Rockies
Member Is Offline
|
|
STOP THE INSANITY
| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
| Quote: | Originally posted by Lee
Isn't there a forum somewhere where you can espouse your silliness?
|
Did you really mean to say this, Lee?? Because you followed it up with this:
| Quote: |
Politics and religion go hand in hand: both corrupt and misguided and meant to fool the masses -- who are obviously easily fooled.
|
Then....you went back to this:
| Quote: |
IF any of you nomads NEED to discuss either religion or politics, take it to OT or somewhere else.
|
Now....I' am confused. Which way do you want things to be? |
In a perfect world? Politics and religion would go away and stay away. This forum has been sullied.
The way it is is Skeet's way. Bible-toting, bible-thumping preaching NOB righteous moral turpitude. Skeet likes it that way. It's his thread.
|
|
|
DianaT
Select Nomad
Posts: 10020
Registered: 12-17-2004
Member Is Offline
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
As I read the founding writings and documents of this Country, and observe inscriptions on our most important Monuments, I see no mention of the
"Iroquois Nation", but I see significant mention of Judeo-Christian basic phylosophy---------the comparison or inference is specious, at least to me.
Having said that, I have great respect for the Iroquois Nation, and always have.
Barry |
Several historians believe that the main influence of the Iroquois Nation on the Articles of Confederation and the Constitution was its idea of a
confederation and the interaction between the members and the whole.
Can you point to some of the original documents and writings that are a part of the Judeo-Christian tradition?
The most basic document, the Declaration of Independence talks about inalienable rights granted by a creator---not God, albeit in the first paragraph
it does refer to Natures' God. That entire concept was quite radical and a product of the Enlightenment. And that is just the beginning. And
Jefferson's idea of a Creator was not a Christian type god.
Yes, some of the moral teachings of Christianity, Judiism, along with the ancient philosophers influenced the thoughts of the founding fathers, but
not so much the religious parts. For example, what is known as the Jefferson Bible is a good little book---lots of good moral teachings and none of
the fantasy.
And look at the buildings, statues and other early structures in Washington DC and they certainly point to Greek and Roman influence.
I would be interested to hear what writings etc. to which you are referring?
Thanks, D
[Edited on 6-10-2012 by DianaT]
|
|
|
Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: optimistic
|
|
Well, Diane, that is a fair question-----------I just thought that the EVERYBODY knew of them, but then I am guilty of "assuming", a sin by my own
rantings in the past.
I do not know the answer off the top of my head, but I have seen them quoted often in e-mails and such, but I would have to research it to really give
you any cites or links. This is always a problem for me as when I am satisfied that I "know something" I ALWAYS forget the source of that info------a
huge handi-cap, for sure.
You got me, for now. 
Barry
On Edit: Well, that was easier than I thought------
Try this link:
http://religiousliberty.com/article-washington-dc-monuments....
Here is another link, tho not directly from "documents" necessarily:
http://www.shadesofgrace.org/2010/05/05/is-america-a-christi...
[Edited on 6-10-2012 by Barry A.]
[Edited on 6-10-2012 by Barry A.]
|
|
|
Iflyfish
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3747
Registered: 10-17-2006
Member Is Offline
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by paranewbi
Illyfish.
I am not in anything all together with you.
Please do not tell me what I am.
Yes, I am not afraid to say those words either.
I am not one of you.
The reason I say this is because of the one thing that seperates the God of the Bible from all other 'religions'.
I am forgiven. |
Do you draw breath, eat, sleep, dream, love, work, play, grapple with the meaning of life? Did Jesus breath, eat, sleep, dream, love, work, play and
grapple with the meaning of life? /Did the Buddha also do these things. If so then we are all human and they and you are one of us. We are called the
Homo-sapiens.
In my study of Theology there is a very well established school fo thought that we are all human and loved by god and that the bible is a work of
allegory and metaphor that points to universal truths about the spiritual journey that we are all engaged in. From that perspective it would be heresy
to view yourself as superior to others and in fact in doing so your rejection of others could well exclude them from the love of god as manifest
through you.
There is a view that the spiritual journey is like a walk up a mountain where there are various viewpoints as one climbs the mountain, places where we
stop and have different perspectives. There are of course many translations of the bible but they all seem to contain a variation of the following
passage: When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
This perspective is one that acknowledges that we have different understandings and perspectives as we grow, age, mature. The "Truth" then at one
stage may be far different than at another stage. Did not Jesus go into the dessert to meditate? Did this meditation not transform him? Did not the
Buddha meditate under a tree and attain his enlightenment? Did this meditation not transform him? You speak of forgiveness as a static and not dynamic
process.
You say "Please do not tell me what I am" and then go on to tell me that you are "I am not one of you" and therefore tell me what I am. Isn't it
Hubris to say that you can determine who is and who isn't forgiven? You walk on some rather thin theological ice there amigo but I forgive you.
Iflyfish
|
|
|
Skipjack Joe
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8084
Registered: 7-12-2004
Location: Bahia Asuncion
Member Is Offline
|
|
As stated earlier - nobody should be put in a position of having to defend their own belief system.
In the end neither side convinced the other of anything. Just harsh feelings.
|
|
|
Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: optimistic
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
As stated earlier - nobody should be put in a position of having to defend their own belief system.
In the end neither side convinced the other of anything. Just harsh feelings. |
Sorta like political discussions--------so frustrating.
Barry
|
|
|
vgabndo
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3461
Registered: 12-8-2003
Location: Mt. Shasta, CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Checking-off my bucket list.
|
|
Barry's comment about the religious quotes all over our history along with a previous allegation by someone else that our founding fathers were guided
by Jesus Christ reminded me of this bit of history from Thomas Jefferson. The majority of the founders were deists. This is my piece about taking
things out of context. From the Jefferson Memorial...
"I have sworn upon the altar of god, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."
Jefferson, the deist, was speaking of a movement among Christians to attack the separation of church and state as specified in the first amendment. He
was speaking of the hostility shown him by the priesthood during his campaign for the Presidency!
Here's the actual context from his letter to Benjamin Rush Sept. 23 1800.
I promised you a letter on Christianity, which I have not forgotten. On the contrary, it is because I have reflected on it, that I find much more time
necessary for it than I can at present dispose of. I have a view of the subject which ought to displease neither the rational Christian nor Deists,
and would reconcile many to a character they have too hastily rejected. I do not know that it would reconcile the genus irritabile vatum who are all
in arms against me. Their hostility is on too interesting ground to be softened. The delusion into which the X. Y. Z. plot shewed it possible to push
the people; the successful experiment made under the prevalence of that delusion on the clause of the constitution, which, while it secured the
freedom of the press, covered also the freedom of religion, had given to the clergy a very favorite hope of obtaining an establishment of a particular
form of Christianity thro' the U. S.; and as every sect believes its own form the true one, every one perhaps hoped for his own, but especially the
Episcopalians & Congregationalists. The returning good sense of our country threatens abortion to their hopes, & they believe that any portion
of power confided to me, will be exerted in opposition to their schemes. And they believe rightly; for I have sworn upon the altar of god, eternal
hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man. But this is all they have to fear from me: & enough too in their opinion, & this
is the cause of their printing lying pamphlets against me, forging conversations for me with Mazzei, Bishop Madison, &c., which are absolute
falsehoods without a circumstance of truth to rest on; falsehoods, too, of which I acquit Mazzei & Bishop Madison, for they are men of truth.
end of quote
Those who would create some justification of the present entanglement of our government, and the beliefs of some of it's citizens, (IN GOD WE TRUST)
(One nation under God) by suggesting that the founders didn't know they were writing a godless constitution is just uninformed. Neither of these
falsehoods can pass the Lemon test under PRESENT law.
"Every analysis in this area must begin with consideration of the cumulative criteria developed by the Court over many years. First, the statute must
have a secular legislative purpose; second, its principal or primary effect must be one that neither advances or inhibits religion; finally, the
statute must not foster and excessive government Entanglement with religion." Chief Justice Burger, 1971
On the other hand why the heck does the most powerful entity of all time need an endorsement on our money?
And, finally, regarding "OMZ", it kind of takes the immediate zing out of the bumper snicker: OMG GOP WTF.
[Edited on 6-10-2012 by vgabndo]
Undoubtedly, there are people who cannot afford to give the anchor of sanity even the slightest tug. Sam Harris
"The situation is far too dire for pessimism."
Bill Kauth
Carl Sagan said, "We are a way for the cosmos to know itself."
PEACE, LOVE AND FISH TACOS
|
|
|
Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: optimistic
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by vgabndo
Barry's comment about the religious quotes all over our history along with a previous allegation by someone else that our founding fathers were guided
by Jesus Christ reminded me of this bit of history from Thomas Jefferson. The majority of the founders were deists. This is my piece about taking
things out of context. From the Jefferson Memorial...
"I have sworn upon the altar of god, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."
Jefferson, the deist, was speaking of a movement among Christians to attack the separation of church and state as specified in the first amendment. He
was speaking of the hostility shown him during his campaign for the Presidency by the priesthood!
Here's the actual context from his letter to Benjamin Rush Sept. 23 1800.
I promised you a letter on Christianity, which I have not forgotten. On the contrary, it is because I have reflected on it, that I find much more time
necessary for it than I can at present dispose of. I have a view of the subject which ought to displease neither the rational Christian nor Deists,
and would reconcile many to a character they have too hastily rejected. I do not know that it would reconcile the genus irritabile vatum who are all
in arms against me. Their hostility is on too interesting ground to be softened. The delusion into which the X. Y. Z. plot shewed it possible to push
the people; the successful experiment made under the prevalence of that delusion on the clause of the constitution, which, while it secured the
freedom of the press, covered also the freedom of religion, had given to the clergy a very favorite hope of obtaining an establishment of a particular
form of Christianity thro' the U. S.; and as every sect believes its own form the true one, every one perhaps hoped for his own, but especially the
Episcopalians & Congregationalists. The returning good sense of our country threatens abortion to their hopes, & they believe that any portion
of power confided to me, will be exerted in opposition to their schemes. And they believe rightly; for I have sworn upon the altar of god, eternal
hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man. But this is all they have to fear from me: & enough too in their opinion, & this
is the cause of their printing lying pamphlets against me, forging conversations for me with Mazzei, Bishop Madison, &c., which are absolute
falsehoods without a circumstance of truth to rest on; falsehoods, too, of which I acquit Mazzei & Bishop Madison, for they are men of truth.
end of quote
Those who would create some justification of the present entanglement of our government, and the beliefs of some of it's citizens, (IN GOD WE TRUST)
(One nation under God) by suggesting that the founders didn't know they were writing a godless constitution is just uninformed. Neither of these
falsehoods can pass the Lemon test under PRESENT law.
"Every analysis in this area must begin with consideration of the cumulative criteria developed by the Court over many years. First, the statute must
have a secular legislative purpose; second, its principal or primary effect must be one that neither advances or inhibits religion; finally, the
statute must not foster and excessive government Entanglement with religion." Chief Justice Burger, 1971
On the other hand why the heck does the most powerful entity of all time need an endorsement on our money?
And, finally, regarding "OMZ", it kind of takes the immediate zing out of the bumper snicker: OMG GOP WTF. |
Vag, my friend---------go back to the bottom of page 12 and see my links on my reply to Diane.
Thanks, Barry
|
|
|
DianaT
Select Nomad
Posts: 10020
Registered: 12-17-2004
Member Is Offline
|
|
vgabndo
Is it any wonder Texas took Jefferson out of the history books? Skeet would have never approved of Jefferson.
|
|
|
paranewbi
Senior Nomad
Posts: 913
Registered: 4-15-2011
Location: San diego
Member Is Offline
|
|
Simply Illyfish we disagree.
|
|
|
| Pages:
1
..
10
11
12
13
14
..
35 |
|
![[*]](images/xmbforum/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
