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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64831
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Roberto
| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
When you hire people to harass your neighbors with guns and blockades and all they have done was to not run away when he started harassing them 3
years ago to take their land from them to add to his ... yah, I call that being a thug.
Back then when he started his wild story telling about drug trafficing (in a dead end bay, where other Nomads live and none have seen any activity or
see any navy ships as he said there was... I did try to talk with him, before I met Mark and Olivia... and from his replies to me and here on Nomad, I
was able to get a good feel for who was honest. When I met Mark and Olivia, it was confirmed that we have a classic GOOD vs. EVIL battle here... Look
at the once beautiful hotel on the beach which is a deserted dump since Muņoz took control of it... the look of what EVIL does when it is unchallanged
by GOOD.
Read Pompano's last photo post (above)... Pompano has lived on Concepcion Bay for a long time... I trust his opinion, as well.
I stand on the side of GOOD. Can you not see what EVIL looks like? Look again at all the Nomads who have posted photos above. |
Wow! David, what do you actually have to back up such strong statements, as in facts? EVIL vs GOOD implies all the right is on one side, and all the
fault of the other. As little time as you spend in BCS (when was the last time you actually were there), how do you have your information? And, what
IS that information. I hope it's more than the posts on the site and a meal at Playa Buenaventura and a good time. |
See my post just above, plus when you actually spend a little time with someone you can tell a lot.
Sadly, you and I spent like 5 minutes or less talking on Dec. 31, 2001 at Camp Gecko, so while I thought it was a friendly exchange at the time, your
negative comments of me on the Internet (ever since) has been quite bazaar. I never wanted any hostility towards you and did nothing ever to you to
deserve it. My attempts at a peaceful resolution before has been rejected as well. I would still like the personal comments from you about me to end,
is that at all possible?
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rts551
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6699
Registered: 9-5-2003
Member Is Offline
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Poor attempt at trying to save face David. poor As the facts come out, it appears your beer bought loyalty might have been wrong.
| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
| Quote: | Originally posted by XPBRes
I would hope the wonderful people who post would not see my post as an attempt to place blame. I had a need to tell my story and I have gotten too!
Anyone that has told family or friends that they are investing time and money in Baja know that they are going to get a loud "I told you so".
We went at this with our eyes open and we are not alone in this recurring nightmare. The rub is to see someone like Mark crying foul. When he had as
much to do with this situation as any one and really from my perspective has contributed so little.
On the other hand I feel he has been a GREAT companion to Olivia, and I do admire him for that. I would not wish what has happened to them on any one!
[Edited on 2-12-2012 by XPBRes] |
Thank you for your post... I for one appreciate hearing the longer version of the site's history. When I call Mark and Olivia 'Good', it is only in
comparison to to Muņoz as I don't pretend to know them before 2009. Bad people can change to good and vice a versa. |
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64831
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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I don't need you to explain me Ralph, just try and be fair with someone who is there serving travelers instead of someone who is 600+ miles north in
Tijuana paying thugs to blockade their business to force them away (after the turtle soup and drug trafficing lies failed).
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rts551
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6699
Registered: 9-5-2003
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
I don't need you to explain me Ralph, just try and be fair with someone who is there serving travelers instead of someone who is 600+ miles north in
Tijuana paying thugs to blockade their business to force them away (after the turtle soup and drug trafficing lies failed). |
David
did it ever occur to you that you do not have to take sides?
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Lee
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3501
Registered: 10-2-2006
Location: High in the Colorado Rockies
Member Is Offline
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People judging DK judging people?
Whoever hired the thugs to show up with a shotgun is EVIL.
Anyone thinking otherwise is entitled to think I'm wrong.
DK is entitled to call Mark/Olivia ''friends'' without being judged on the length and depth of their relationship.
What the heck is wrong with you people?
US Marines: providing enemies of America an opportunity to die for their country since 1775.
What I say before any important decision.
F*ck it.
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rts551
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6699
Registered: 9-5-2003
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Lee
What the heck is wrong with you people? |
nothing.
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DianaT
Select Nomad
Posts: 10020
Registered: 12-17-2004
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by rts551
| Quote: | Originally posted by Lee
What the heck is wrong with you people? |
nothing. |
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Lee
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3501
Registered: 10-2-2006
Location: High in the Colorado Rockies
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by rts551
| Quote: | Originally posted by Lee
What the heck is wrong with you people? |
nothing. |
Your personal attacks demonstrate otherwise. You can't disagree with DK without personal attacks?
US Marines: providing enemies of America an opportunity to die for their country since 1775.
What I say before any important decision.
F*ck it.
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paranewbi
Senior Nomad
Posts: 913
Registered: 4-15-2011
Location: San diego
Member Is Offline
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Man, this whole thread is like sitting around the table with family and booze. Brings a tear to my eyes....it's been so long since those days. I just
want it to never end.
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Roberto
Banned
Posts: 2162
Registered: 9-5-2003
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Lee
People judging DK judging people?
Whoever hired the thugs to show up with a shotgun is EVIL.
Anyone thinking otherwise is entitled to think I'm wrong.
DK is entitled to call Mark/Olivia ''friends'' without being judged on the length and depth of their relationship.
What the heck is wrong with you people? |
What the heck is wrong with YOU and your compulsive need to defend DK no matter his words or actions?
By your own standards, if DK is enititled to call someone he bought a beer from a friend, others are entitled to ask why he would do that, and condemn
other that he also knows nothing about. You don't see that?
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surfer jim
Super Nomad
Posts: 1891
Registered: 8-29-2003
Location: high desert
Member Is Offline
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...we have left the main road but let's see where this detour takes us....
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by surfer jim
...we have left the main road but let's see where this detour takes us.... |
In a great big circle. If you keep going left, pretty soon you're going right. [no political comment intended] 
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mulegemichael
Super Nomad
Posts: 2310
Registered: 12-24-2007
Location: sequim,wa. and mulege
Member Is Offline
Mood: up on step
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i hope it doesn't take us back to turtle soup.
dyslexia is never having to say you\'re yrros.
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Lee
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3501
Registered: 10-2-2006
Location: High in the Colorado Rockies
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Roberto
What the heck is wrong with YOU and your compulsive need to defend DK no matter his words or actions? |
I weigh his words the same as everyone else. Think we're on the same page on some things. Specifically, he thinks the thugs who were hired by
the thug in Tiajuana is evil, and so do I. That doesn't mean Mark/Olivia is ''good'' but I don't see them as thugs.
How DK measures friendship is none of my business and I don't question that. If you want to get into defining what is and isn't a friend, feel
free. No reason to make it personal, though, is there?
| Quote: | | By your own standards, if DK is enititled to call someone he bought a beer from a friend, others are entitled to ask why he would do that, and condemn
other that he also knows nothing about. You don't see that? |
I think I see it, but maybe not. Bottom line is if DK writes that someone is his friend, I'll take that at face value. I don't want to stray
too far from the subject here. That's the Mark and Olivia story, and the thugs that belong in jail.
DK is entitled to be questioned respectfully and I question ''condemning'' him because someone doesn't like his answer or opinions, or him as a
person. For some reason, I get a feeling that those personal attacks are from other threads?
Hope you can see that.
Can we move on? Is this thread finished?
US Marines: providing enemies of America an opportunity to die for their country since 1775.
What I say before any important decision.
F*ck it.
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Ateo
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5900
Registered: 7-18-2011
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Lee
People judging DK judging people?
Whoever hired the thugs to show up with a shotgun is EVIL.
Anyone thinking otherwise is entitled to think I'm wrong.
DK is entitled to call Mark/Olivia ''friends'' without being judged on the length and depth of their relationship.
What the heck is wrong with you people? |
Agreed.
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MexicoTed
Senior Nomad
Posts: 708
Registered: 8-2-2004
Member Is Offline
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Wow, this thread is really taking a different route than what it started as. There's so many questions about what has happened at San Buenaventura in
the past 10 years and now even more through some of these posts such as:
-How did Sr. Munoz get the title that was supposedly not legal and that the ejido didn't have? Woosh stated it was not legal so many years ago, so how
is it not government land?
-Who is XPBRes? I don't have any idea other than he just joined the site and claims he built and lived in one of the homes there. Am I missing
something, do you all know him? How do I know what he claims is any truer than what Munoz or Mark/Olivia claims?
-Where's the title? If Munoz has it, post it. If Mark/Olivia have the beach concession, post it. Show us proof.
-Is the hotel even open? Last time I went by it was closed (last year). Has it functioned in the last year or so?
Seems like everything is rumor or a "I heard this or that" thing.
Until the legal process plays out, we'll never know.
Ted
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XPBRes
Junior Nomad
Posts: 66
Registered: 2-11-2012
Location: SoCal
Member Is Offline
Mood: SOULFUL
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MT,
How do you know anything is true? I can only ask you who do you know in this story. Have you meet any of the residents at PB? I think most people on
this site have driven by or stopped for a beer. That makes them only able to tell what they have heard. I ask you check out some of the facts. I ask
you to name anybody that was there before Marc. I would be happy to give you details and think I have given some.
If this was so clear cut no one would be interested.
I can tell you i have seen everyones paperwork and it doesn't add up to much. Have you ever walked into a municipal buiding or court in Mexico? There
were 2 Agrarian buildings in La Paz, 1 kept the maps and records for the ejido the other building for the sale of ejido property. There was paperwork
stuffed in cabinets, they couldn't find anything that you asked for. 10 years ago when we tried to sort this out, you would walk in and see computers
on the desk. The funny part is they are not pluged into anything, guess what no power outlets. This is a small part of what we were dealing with back
then. Ok its 10 years later maybe things have changed.
I ask you how long would you have put with what we did?
ASK AWAY I HAVE NO AGENDA, maybe one to stop watching and particapate in the discussion. I again challenge these other characters to bring it. I stand
on the fact that they are getting what they sowed.
[Edited on 2-13-2012 by XPBRes]
[Edited on 2-13-2012 by XPBRes]
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XPBRes
Junior Nomad
Posts: 66
Registered: 2-11-2012
Location: SoCal
Member Is Offline
Mood: SOULFUL
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Here is an email dated 3-18-2003 Hopeful you will understand I have to edit some of the names and addresses.
I offer this as more info and hopefully you can see how complex this was.
Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2003 7:32 AM
Subject: REAL RIGHTS RECOGNITION CONTRACT
Sr. Munoz,
I have reviewed the contract. We must first tell you that we
have cooperated with you & Sr. Corona from the beginning of our
discussions. We have helped to keep communication with all parties and
shared information when asked. These discussions started back in Sept.
2002. We have always agreed to sign a contract with you. This agreement was to be 2 parts:
1. That we agree that you are the ONLY OWNERS of the real property at
Playa Buenaventura, where our improvements are standing and that we would return all to you.
2. That you appraise, compensate and lease back for the duration of
the payments.
You state very clearly that you need us to sign contract #1 and that
we can take care of contract #2 later.
The problem with Contract #1 is that we give up all our rights to any
claim.
This means that we would not be able to make a claim for you to sign
contract #2.
Sr. Munoz it states very clearly in CLAUSE #1 of Contract #1:
The Cedente yields, donates, transfers, delivers without any
condition, final, irrevocable without any reserve and immediately the
object matter of this contract, delivering the material possession of the same one in this act, not to reserving straight or any obligation and
renouncing any right to the same one in favor of the Owners.
Sr. Munoz it also states very clearly in DECLARATION V of Contract #1:
Declares the Cedente, that is Citizen of the United States of North
America, apt legal and physically to hire and to be obliged, that understands the content, meaning and spirit of this contract, in spite of the fact
that Spanish is not his natural language since has translated it by
means of their advisors in the matter, who explained it completely its
meaning and legal reaches. I don't know of a lawyer who would have me sign contract #1 without
having contract #2 in place or at least mentioned in contract #1. The
Contract also needs signatures to be witnessed. I am confused as to how this could be a legal document when you and I have not signed this document
in the presence of witnesses.
So by definition of the DECLARATION, I have not been advised to sign
without an offer. Let me say to you again WE ARE NOT DISPUTING YOU'RE RIGHTS TO OWNERSHIP.
What we are asking is: why have you not given us a completed Contract #2? Please appraise our improvements, which you have told us you would do for
the last 6 months, and give us an offer with a lease back for an
extended period of time.
Sr. Munoz these are things that you OFFERED us to do back in SEPT
2002, they are not and were not demands that we made of you. I would have signed this document last month when you came to San Diego. You even
emailed me and asked for pictures of the homes to help with appraisal and I sent them.
You said in that email we could finalize the documents then. We even had
discussion months ago about a fair amount for compensation and you
told me there would be no problem. At the meeting Sr. Corona told us
all, that he would go to Buenaventura and look at the properties. We
were told not to WORRY because the problem was not with us but Olivia.
Mr went to Buenaventura and was there with the keys to all the
homes. That was a month ago.
Sr. Munoz you have asked us to take you at your word and we have. We
think you & Sr. Corona are good men and will do the right thing. Again
I have to say that this is a legal matter and it has to BENEFIT both
parties to be of any value.
In closing:
I will tell you my intentions are to sign BOTH documents with an
agreement to an appraisal, compensation and lease back arrangements. This is fair and what you have always agreed too.
Munoz replies:
I understand your doubts.
We understand that you recognizes us as the only legal owners, but we need you to tell us it in writing and we need it now, because we need to start
the legal procedures against Olivia and anyone who odes not recognizes us in writing, we can't just wait any longer.
Signing the first contract don't take away anything that you legally have, since you don't have any right now, since you built on land that was not
yours from the start; we are not offering you to pay for the building because we have, we can just say that, what you paid to Olivia, you have to
reclaim it from her, since we the owners, have not received any of that money, we just would have to reclaim the whole house and the back rent for 5
years from you, trough the court and you will have to give it just like that back plus 5 years rent and attorneys and court costs.
We are now not obligated to pay you one cent and we can ask you for 5 years back rent and to leave our property and all that is in strict according to
the law; that is why we don't connect contract one with the second; if fact, we liberate you from back rents and any legal responsibility with the
first one and that is the one you need more, since then, we will be on cero with you; now, legally you own us 5 years back rent and we own you nothing
for the building.
The second is a voluntary one for us and you can be sure we are not going to go back on it, because if we wanted, we would already have done it and
asking for money not offering it to you.
To the second one, we already agreed to some of your appraisals, we just don't agree with some others.
To evaluate what we want to pay you, we will consider the actual money you spent in the house, less the depreciation by time and use; we agreed to one
price for one house, but the other ones are too high according to our civil engineer; that is why Ernesto want to go personally to take a personal
opinion; we don't want you to suffer a great loss, but we don't want to pay for more than we are receiving in actual value.
You are not selling your house, you are being compensated for the actual value of the building you have, considering that Olivia is the one who stole
your money; money that we think it will be very difficult to get back, since you don't have adequate records of your payments to her, at leas not
enough to present in court; and that is your mistake not ours; the same for not having asked for a title insurance or validation before investing and
paying.
That is why don't expect to get back the actual real estate price of the house you use now in our property.
We know that all of this is a bunch of legal mumbo for you, but in Mexico it is a lot more important to go according to the law, than in the Estates
and it not exactly because of the Mexicans, since Olivia was born in the United Estates and the same for her past husband and actual Mark; you were
robed by US citizens disguised as Mexicans and using Mexican land.
Don't worry about making these questions, we know how you feel and we feel bad too, because it is difficult to deal with people like Olivia and Mark
who don't have nothing, were used to live without working and feeling like they owned something without paying for it.
We paid a lot of money to the Mexican Government 15 years ago for the land, we have paid our taxes since then and we did it because we were waiting
for the right moment to invest; we were not expecting to find squatters in our land and I mean Olivia, because we recognize that you were wrongly
induced to use our land.
If you have more questions we can keep writing until we all feel we understand each other.
Rafael M Munoz
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XPBRes
Junior Nomad
Posts: 66
Registered: 2-11-2012
Location: SoCal
Member Is Offline
Mood: SOULFUL
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So here we are 6 months later, does this sound like something you've heard recently....and on it goes like this until present day. I will stop now,
but as I said early I am happy to share, answer and be apart of this discussion in an open forum.
Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2003 5:50 PM
Subject: update?
The immigration officers have been at San Buenaventura with Mark and Olivia, they have found several wrong doings of Mark, Olivia and the Immigration
officer at Santa Rosalia; they were planning on staying at Mulege a couple of days but since they found several problems they have spent more than a
week there; their ruling will be ready in a week or so they said to their boos in Mexico city; they made an investigation about the emails Mark sent
to Baja Quest too; their problems are bigger than we expected.
The appraisals were given to us a week ago but we will take a second opinion since they were extremely low in Ernesto's opinion, he want to go and
verify them himself and he will be there in a couple of weeks, but in my opinion the appraisals are very well done and funded, it will be a matter of
reaching an agreement.
I will be at San Buenaventura next week with the Federal Zone officials to verify our concession's drawing; Olivia's request or to continue having the
concession have been denied and it is fact she will be leaving in the very near future; our property rights have been verified by the Federal
authority and our title found good and all the Olivia's allegations found unfounded.
The Ejido have never participated.
We don't think that you can have any kind of problem while at the beach, now we have the complete control over the beach, they no longer can use the
beach for any purpose and they will not be able even to visit you; Juan have very explicit orders about them and he will physically throw them out if
they try to enter our property and I mean even the beach, now we can offer you complete protection from them.
If you haven't noticed, all of Mark's emails to Baja Quest have been deleted from public view.
Rafael M Munoz
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mcfez
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8678
Registered: 12-2-2009
Location: aka BN yankeeirishman
Member Is Offline
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Now now...does this really happen?
".......There was paperwork stuffed in cabinets, they couldn't find anything that you asked for. 10 years ago when we tried to sort this out, you
would walk in and see computers on the desk. The funny part is they are not plugged into anything, guess what no power outlets."
Absolutely YES! I chuckled when I read this...reminded me so much of the ejido "office" in San Felipe
| Quote: | Originally posted by XPBRes
MT,
How do you know anything is true? I can only ask you who do you know in this story. Have you meet any of the residents at PB? I think most people on
this site have driven by or stopped for a beer. That makes them only able to tell what they have heard. I ask you check out some of the facts. I ask
you to name anybody that was there before Marc. I would be happy to give you details and think I have given some.
If this was so clear cut no one would be interested.
I can tell you i have seen everyones paperwork and it doesn't add up to much. Have you ever walked into a municipal buiding or court in Mexico? There
were 2 Agrarian buildings in La Paz, 1 kept the maps and records for the ejido the other building for the sale of ejido property. There was paperwork
stuffed in cabinets, they couldn't find anything that you asked for. 10 years ago when we tried to sort this out, you would walk in and see computers
on the desk. The funny part is they are not pluged into anything, guess what no power outlets. This is a small part of what we were dealing with back
then. Ok its 10 years later maybe things have changed.
I ask you how long would you have put with what we did?
ASK AWAY I HAVE NO AGENDA, maybe one to stop watching and particapate in the discussion. I again challenge these other characters to bring it. I stand
on the fact that they are getting what they sowed.
[Edited on 2-13-2012 by XPBRes]
[Edited on 2-13-2012 by XPBRes] |
[Edited on 2-13-2012 by mcfez]
Old people are like the old cars, made of some tough stuff. May show a little rust, but good as gold on the inside.
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