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Pompano
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8194
Registered: 11-14-2004
Location: Bay of Conception and Up North
Member Is Offline
Mood: Optimistic
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Hey...it's part of the greatness of Baja. Metal filing cabinets, deteriorating microfish, paper manuscripts, land maps, surveys, etc. etc
..overflowing with your vital ownership papers, tax records, leases, marriages,.. MARRIAGES?..., legal claims, lawsuits, etc.
It makes it more of a challenge, right? Baja is a great paradise..and it should never be too easy to obtain. You have to work for it! But you
should never be cheated out of it. The criminals involved should be treated as horse thieves were in the Old West. Trouble is, there are not enough
tall trees around this part of Baja.
[Edited on 2-13-2012 by Pompano]
I do what the voices in my tackle box tell me.
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ELINVESTIG8R
Select Nomad
Posts: 15882
Registered: 11-20-2007
Location: Southern California
Member Is Offline
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Mark and Olivia, who is this balding man with his hands in front of him with the palms facing toward himself?
Rafael, is this your man pointing a shotgun at an unarmed man? Was this before or after pepper spray? I do not think he was pepper sprayed before this
was taken, as he would have been in pain. It does not appear he was in pain.
This is screws up if he was not attacked first or the other side had firearms too.
Rafael, is the man with a flashlight your man too?
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XPBRes
Junior Nomad
Posts: 66
Registered: 2-11-2012
Location: SoCal
Member Is Offline
Mood: SOULFUL
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Pompano,
I totally agree the adventure is worth it, but lets get our posse and hang some horse thieves!!
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tripledigitken
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4848
Registered: 9-27-2006
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | | Quote: | Originally posted by ELINVESTIG8R
Mark and Olivia, who is this balding man with his hands in front of him with the palms facing toward himself?
Rafael, is this your man pointing a shotgun at an unarmed man? Was this before or after pepper spray? I do not think he was pepper sprayed before this
was taken, as he would have been in pain. It does not appear he was in pain.
This is screws up if he was not attacked first or the other side had firearms too.
Rafael, is the man with a flashlight your man too?
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David,
This was posted a few pages back.
Hotel staff and cooks apprehended!
(source...http://colectivopericu.wordpress.com/2012/02/11/)
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[Edited on 2-13-2012 by tripledigitken]
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greengoes
Select Nomad
Posts: 10288
Registered: 6-27-2011
Member Is Offline
Mood: Today I slay the Red Dot.
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Binary People
Binary People:
Read somewhere a person saying ‘Binary People’ can only say right or wrong, bad or evil and on or off. 11 or 00
Binary can go to an and/or which is a decision. 10
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Woooosh
Banned
Posts: 5240
Registered: 1-28-2007
Location: Rosarito Beach
Member Is Offline
Mood: Luminescent Waves at Rosarito Beach
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15 pages and things are getting more clear, sort of. Thanks XPBRes for finding and posting the decades-old e-mails. Munoz seems to be very calm and
non-threatening in his instructions. It is also clear BOTH of you are blaming Olivia for taking control of the area and five years rent money from
you when she was not the owner: " it is difficult to deal with people like Olivia and Mark who don't have nothing, were used to live without working
and feeling like they owned something without paying for it." The contract 1 and 2 thing is interesting, but Raphael was correct that you legally had
nothing and no rights to anything before signing contract one (if Raphaels documents and title are correct and legal).
I am a little confused on the appraisals for the"other houses". Why was that an issue when you were dealing one-on-one with Raphael just to get a
fair settlement on your own house? Were yo asking for control of all the houses on Raphaels side of the beach?
That pretty much sums up my take on it from what I have read. A previous poster asked for Olivia and Raphael to post their legal documents. Then
again, they owe us nothing and have not participated in this thread. This thread started as a call for action to help Olivia from their Facebook
postings.
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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desertcpl
Super Nomad
Posts: 2396
Registered: 10-26-2008
Location: yuma,az
Member Is Offline
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NO DOG IN THIS FIGHT
Now I really dont know what to think, I followed the Turtle Tread, at that time I thought Oliva and Mark was the victims,
now I really am confused, XPBRes makes some compelling points as does Munoz,
I have heard that squatting laws in Mexico are much different than here NOB, maybe Munoz was doing what needed to be done in this case in defending
his property from Oliva and Mark moving into the house
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by desertcpl
I have heard that squatting laws in Mexico are much different than here NOB, maybe Munoz was doing what needed to be done in this case in defending
his property from Oliva and Mark moving into the house |
It's always been my understanding that squatters can excercise their rights under the Agrarian Reform Laws on unused, unowned land. Not someones
house.
Around here, land owners will plant fields of Nopal, which takes care of itself, on the land indicating it's being farmed...therefore in use.
.
[Edited on 2-13-2012 by DENNIS]
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desertcpl
Super Nomad
Posts: 2396
Registered: 10-26-2008
Location: yuma,az
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
| Quote: | Originally posted by desertcpl
I have heard that squatting laws in Mexico are much different than here NOB, maybe Munoz was doing what needed to be done in this case in defending
his property from Oliva and Mark moving into the house |
It's always been my understanding that squatters can excercise their rights under the Agrarian Reform Laws on unused, unowned land. Not someones
house.
Around here, land owners will plant fields of Nopal, which takes care of itself, on the land indicating it's being farmed...therefore in use.
Dennis , I sure you understand alot more than I do on this, but you mentioned unused and unowned, I was under the impression that it would have to be
just unused and after a period of time the squatters would then have some claim on the property , if the legal owners didnt remove them
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ELINVESTIG8R
Select Nomad
Posts: 15882
Registered: 11-20-2007
Location: Southern California
Member Is Offline
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Ok Ken, thanks!
Olivia and Mark, who is the balding man with his hands up?
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greengoes
Select Nomad
Posts: 10288
Registered: 6-27-2011
Member Is Offline
Mood: Today I slay the Red Dot.
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
| Quote: | Originally posted by desertcpl
I have heard that squatting laws in Mexico are much different than here NOB, maybe Munoz was doing what needed to be done in this case in defending
his property from Oliva and Mark moving into the house |
It's always been my understanding that squatters can excercise their rights under the Agrarian Reform Laws on unused, unowned land.
Not someones house
Around here, land owners will plant fields of Nopal, which takes care of itself, on the land indicating it's being farmed...therefore in use.
.
[Edited on 2-13-2012 by DENNIS] |
come se dice 'pushing the envelope'?
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by desertcpl
Dennis , I sure you understand alot more than I do on this, but you mentioned unused and unowned, I was under the impression that it would have to be
just unused and after a period of time the squatters would then have some claim on the property , if the legal owners didnt remove them
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Well....it all comes back to the age-old question in Mexico...who knows what?
It could be the "unused" factor and that might be why some feel compelled to mark their land as "used" as with the Nopal crop.
The instances that I've seen where this has taken place is on privately owned property surrounded by Ejido predators. Toscano's Beach Camp at La
Bufadora is a good example.
Other large land owners throughout the country probably don't have to do anything but put up a fence because they have the power to remove
anybody...at any time. Money talks....Law walks.
The time element you mentioned illustrates the need to get squatters off your property asap. Another local example of this is La Joya Beach Camp here
in Punta Banda. There is a row of Puestos, shops, near the entrance that sell tamales and canned olives or whatever they have to passing tourists and
they all are squatters who have outlived the statute of limitations. How Pabloff let this happen, I don't understand, but he did and he regrets it.
From what I do understand, it all started with a kindness and he ended up getting screwed.
When I talk to local land owners, such as my landlord, and I mention Ejido.....they break out in a cold sweat. Government sanctioned Agrarian Reform
agencies are extremely powerful, right or wrong, and they have far outlived their original intent, but they vote.
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greengoes
Select Nomad
Posts: 10288
Registered: 6-27-2011
Member Is Offline
Mood: Today I slay the Red Dot.
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| Quote: | Originally posted by ELINVESTIG8R
Ok Ken, thanks!
Olivia and Mark, who is the balding man with his hands up? |
Can he be the unamed American tourist who went off the bridge with Olivia whan the bandito cut loose after being peppersrayed?
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ELINVESTIG8R
Select Nomad
Posts: 15882
Registered: 11-20-2007
Location: Southern California
Member Is Offline
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Quien Sabe Greengoes! I am waiting for a reply to that answer!
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Woooosh
Banned
Posts: 5240
Registered: 1-28-2007
Location: Rosarito Beach
Member Is Offline
Mood: Luminescent Waves at Rosarito Beach
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| Quote: | Originally posted by lencho
| Quote: | Originally posted by desertcpl
Now I really dont know what to think, I followed the Turtle Tread, at that time I thought Oliva and Mark was the victims, |
The most likely victims are we, the members of this forum; how'd we turn into the jury on this catfight, anyway? Though I do admit,
it's provided a lot of... entertainment. |
and still 40 pages short of the Turtle Bust thread.
Those of us who live here are always interested in land title problems. There are more and more of these title problems popping up, although this
location is very remote and their local agrarian office seems to be less than ideally organized to defend a claim. It's interesting. Not the result-
the players, the process, and the overlapping jurisdictions and legal rulings.
[Edited on 2-13-2012 by Woooosh]
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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XPBRes
Junior Nomad
Posts: 66
Registered: 2-11-2012
Location: SoCal
Member Is Offline
Mood: SOULFUL
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Whoooosh,
I'm pretty sure that has to do with the way the lease contracts were written. Some of the homeowners-renters came after the hotel. Mike wrote there
contracts on the hotel invoice and there by making them a different animal all together legally. if i can find that email I will post it.
The blame you talk about is not for rent on my part, it is for the deception on who I was renting from for the prior 10 years. As soon as we willed
over to Munoz s she then sued us in Agrarian court. Another reason we are not so happy with our past relationship with other party.
[Edited on 2-13-2012 by XPBRes]
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Pescador
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3587
Registered: 10-17-2002
Location: Baja California Sur
Member Is Offline
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XPBRes, Did Munoz actually buy the property from the Italians or do you think he researched the property and then laid claim on it through Agragrian
court? Seems like he made a couple of trips and if he is as good with land and real estate laws as it seems he may have seen a Golden opportunity
since the whole ownership thing of the Hotel and Restaurant were in question and totally unclear.
I am truly sorry for all of the effort, blood, sweat, and tears that you went through to make a place for yourself down there. I hope this all
comes to some worthwhile conclusion. I remember when we started to build that we spent every waking moment on our return to Colorado making
purchases, filling trailers or trucks, and dreaming every night about our little castle in Paradise. It is so sad when the dream becomes a nightmare.
One small thing in your favor is that everyone reading this will have a better handle on the advice that we all continually give that leasing ejido
land is a nightmare and not the best thing to do.
I really appreciate your taking the time to help clear this up. I admit to a basic mistrust of lawyers and it does not matter which side of the
border they are on.
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wessongroup
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21152
Registered: 8-9-2009
Location: Mission Viejo
Member Is Offline
Mood: Suicide Hot line ... please hold
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Hear, hear... Pescador ...
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XPBRes
Junior Nomad
Posts: 66
Registered: 2-11-2012
Location: SoCal
Member Is Offline
Mood: SOULFUL
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Pescador,
The Italians have kept in contact and are wonderful trustworthy people. They would never answer directly to that ? So I think they came to some sort
of business arrangement, payments, compensation of some sort. Do I think they ever got what was promised NO!
The restaurant and 2 homes to the south are in the federal zone so they fall under Olivia's consession. This is why this continues, private property
vs. federal consession. Munoz blocks the road to his property and makes it tough for people reach beach, restaurant & homes to the south.
Thanks for the understanding of our hard work and planning. I do wish when we started there had been a forum such as this one. People need to look
past the emotion and get GOOD advice before they jump in. I have so wanted to tell our story since this forum started. We made a choice to not put the
other renters in jeopardy and keep quiet.
I hope everyone here can understand how hard it has been to watch and not jump right in! Now that it is only the primaries that are involved and this
opportunity presented itself, it was a great time to join the group.
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surfer jim
Super Nomad
Posts: 1891
Registered: 8-29-2003
Location: high desert
Member Is Offline
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Second that ...
I have finally gotten the idea of what may be going on there.
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