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mtgoat666
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Quote: Originally posted by David K  | Wow... so much BS. GATO9632 is just confused about an FMM also being called a "visa" (by almost everyone).
Technically, a visa is for most overseas visitors to Mexico and an FMM (also called by some, a 'Tourist Permit') is for most North American and maybe
a few other visitors. They are not the same and you don't need both if you are Canadian or American... just an FMM. A passport card or book is
required to get it. |
So much easier to call the fmm a ‘tourist visa.’
Common dictionary defn of visa:
“an endorsement issued by an authorized representative of a country and marked in a passport, permitting the passport holder to enter, travel
through, or reside in that country for a specified amount of time, for the purpose of tourism, education, employment, etc.”
Fmm sure seems to be a visa!
Woke!
“...ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country.” “My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America
will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man.”
Prefered gender pronoun: the royal we
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surabi
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This article explains the difference between a tourist card and a visa as concerns Mexico.
https://visaguide.world/mexico-visa/tourist/#:~:text=However...
Of course, people are free to call things whatever they want.
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BeachSeeker
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Come one, why spread rumors like this? I guarantee you cannot come up with one single example of someone getting jailed for a week and their vehicle
permanently confiscated for ONLY not having an FMM. Yes you will get "deported". In other words, they'll make you turn around and go get one, or leave
the country. They might try to get a fine out of you, in the form of cash USD straight into their hand.
Goat, all your links show is that a (small) number of Americans were deported from Baja in 2023. It says nothing more than that. When this happens,
it's usually just forcing them to leave the country of their own accord (drive back North). They aren't taking all of their possessions, jailing them,
then dumping them out on the North side of the border.
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surabi
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| Quote: Originally posted by BeachSeeker | | When this happens, it's usually just forcing them to leave the country of their own accord (drive back North). They aren't taking all of their
possessions, jailing them, then dumping them out on the North side of the border. |
You call others' warnings BS, yet you are insisting that it's "usually just forcing them to leave the country of their own accord". So do you have
some sort of proof that this is the case, or is this just your opinion presented as fact?
And "forced" and "of their own accord" are, by definition, mutually exclusive.
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4x4abc
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| Quote: Originally posted by BeachSeeker |
Come one, why spread rumors like this? I guarantee you cannot come up with one single example of someone getting jailed for a week and their vehicle
permanently confiscated for ONLY not having an FMM. |
looks like this group might not be for you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1d2ubvWBkg&t=114s
Harald Pietschmann
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BeachSeeker
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Haha, great, you found a video that hardly applies to what we are talking about and doesn't meet either of the criteria of my challenge.
Julian was in an INM detention center for only 6 days. Not quite jail, and not quite a week, but close. Also, he did not have a vehicle confiscated.
He overstayed his tourist visa. This guy's whole story is entirely different than what we are talking about. If this is the best you've got, then you
should probably stop spreading rumors that are simply not true.
Don't try to gatekeep this group just because someone called you out on something that didn't happen.
edit: Removed incorrect info about Germans requiring tourist visa.
[Edited on 3-12-2025 by BeachSeeker]
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BeachSeeker
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| Quote: Originally posted by surabi |
You call others' warnings BS, yet you are insisting that it's "usually just forcing them to leave the country of their own accord". So do you have
some sort of proof that this is the case, or is this just your opinion presented as fact?
And "forced" and "of their own accord" are, by definition, mutually exclusive. |
I'm not saying not to get an FMM. Absolutely get one. I always have a valid FMM when I'm in Baja. But you bet I'm 100% calling someone out when they
spread fear and rumors without any proof.
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lencho
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| Quote: Originally posted by BeachSeeker | | If you are from other than America or Canada, the whole process is entirely different and you need more than just an FMM. |
Please tell us what additional documentation a German citizen needs. 
"I can normally tell how intelligent a man is, by how stupid he thinks I
am."
"...they were careful of their demeanor that they not be thought to have opinions on what they heard for like most men skilled at their work they
were scornful of any least suggestion of knowing anything not learned at first hand."
Cormac McCarthy, All the Pretty Horses
"Be kind, be patient, help others." -- Isabel Allende
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surabi
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| Quote: Originally posted by BeachSeeker |
If you are from other than America or Canada, the whole process is entirely different and you need more than just an FMM. |
You obviously didn't bother to read the FMM/visa article I posted. You are now posting BS incorrect info, just as you are accusing others of. That
article has a list of countries that only require tourist cards. All of the EU countries, plus 39 other countries, including the US and Canada.
One should really do a bit of research before trying to sound knowledgeable.
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BeachSeeker
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| Quote: Originally posted by surabi | | Quote: Originally posted by BeachSeeker |
If you are from other than America or Canada, the whole process is entirely different and you need more than just an FMM. |
You obviously didn't bother to read the FMM/visa article I posted. You are now posting BS incorrect info, just as you are accusing others of. That
article has a list of countries that only require tourist cards. All of the EU countries, plus 39 other countries, including the US and Canada.
One should really do a bit of research before trying to sound knowledgeable. |
My apologies, I was incorrect. Germany is one of the excluded countries.
However, you posted "BS" by saying it is the "Entire EU". The INM website states only those countries in the Schengen Area. So Cyprus for example,
while being in the EU, does not qualify. So I guess we're all guilty of posting BS. The difference is whether we choose to double down on it, like
Harald, or just admit our mistakes.
I stand by my claim that you cannot produce a verifiable example of someone in Baja getting jailed for a week and their vehicle permanently
confiscated for ONLY not having an FMM.
[Edited on 3-12-2025 by BeachSeeker]
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surabi
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You are really missing the point. Mexico doesn't have specific immigration rules concerning Baja travelers and valid tourist cards. They have rules
about being able to produce proof of permission to be in Mexico, whether that is a residency card or a tourist card. And arguing about whether anyone
not in possession of any of those documents has or will go to jail and been or will be deported and their vehicle confiscated is silly. Immigration
officials can do whatever they want, within Mexican law, (and detaining you in jail, deporting you and confiscating your vehicle fall within that) to
those who choose not to respect the law.
I told you I know someone who was caught without any immigration documentation, jailed and deported and her motorbike confiscated. You can choose to
believe that or not.
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BeachSeeker
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| Quote: Originally posted by surabi | I told you I know someone who was caught without any immigration documentation, jailed and deported and her motorbike confiscated. You can choose to
believe that or not.
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Without any sort of proof, I choose not to believe your (at least) second hand account.
Here's why. How many people have you heard tell you that restaurants take stingray wings, cut them in circles, and sell them as scallops? It's
ubiquitous at this point, with everyone having some version of this story. However, it is absolutely false. Stingray doesn't have the texture, color,
or taste to fool a 2 year old into thinking its a scallop. How did this rumor get started? Well, someone heard from someone else that it happens. The
story gets told enough that everyone just believes it to be true. No one who has ever actually eaten a stingray would ever say that there is any way
it could be sold as a scallop. It's all second hand stories turned into urban legend.
I mean, is it possible to get jailed and your car stolen by the cops if you don't have an FMM, sure it is. It's also possible to be killed by cops for
having a counterfeit $20 in the states, and I have verifiable proof that actually happened (George Floyd).
Now, if your goal is to scare people away from going to Baja, hell I get it. Part of me is happy that Baja has (an unfounded) reputation of being so
unsafe that you shouldn't go there. Maybe you should post more rumors like that on iOverlander...
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AKgringo
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I would tell you about my experience making "Scallops" out of a large ray I caught, but it has nothing to do with Visas or FMMs.
If you are not living on the edge, you are taking up too much space!
"Could do better if he tried!" Report card comments from most of my grade school teachers. Sadly, still true!
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David K
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| Quote: Originally posted by BeachSeeker | | Quote: Originally posted by surabi | I told you I know someone who was caught without any immigration documentation, jailed and deported and her motorbike confiscated. You can choose to
believe that or not.
|
I mean, is it possible to get jailed and your car stolen by the cops if you don't have an FMM, sure it is. It's also possible to be killed by cops for
having a counterfeit $20 in the states, and I have verifiable proof that actually happened (George Floyd).
Now, if your goal is to scare people away from going to Baja, hell I get it. Part of me is happy that Baja has (an unfounded) reputation of being so
unsafe that you shouldn't go there. Maybe you should post more rumors like that on iOverlander... |
I think Mr. Floyd was not just using counterfeit money (why the store owner called the cops), but he was high on drugs and resisting arrest. So, let's
include that tiny fact. No excuse for the brutal knee hold down that killed him but if he wasn't high and resisting, he would be alive.
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cupcake
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| Quote: Originally posted by BeachSeeker | | Quote: Originally posted by surabi |
You call others' warnings BS, yet you are insisting that it's "usually just forcing them to leave the country of their own accord". So do you have
some sort of proof that this is the case, or is this just your opinion presented as fact?
And "forced" and "of their own accord" are, by definition, mutually exclusive. |
I'm not saying not to get an FMM. Absolutely get one. I always have a valid FMM when I'm in Baja. But you bet I'm 100% calling someone out when they
spread fear and rumors without any proof. |
Around 2018 or 2019, when I was on the Lonely Planet Thorntree forum, before it closed permanently, there was a thread about an older woman from
Canada who had driven her car to Mexico mainland. She had gotten all the paperwork, and an FMM online, but when she crossed into Mexico she was waved
through by an ignorant border agent, instead of being told to park and have her FMM stamped in the office. A month later, when she was in southern
Mexico, she was arrested for not having a valid FMM. She was taken to a detention center and this was reported in the news. Strangely, I cannot find
this news report online now. I still have the Lonely Planet thread saved on a hard drive in storage. If I ever feel like digging it out I will post
something more here.
Last I heard, the woman had been in detention for 10 days, had her car impounded (but maybe got it back later), and had spent a lot of money on an
attorney to help her.
[Edited on 3-12-2025 by cupcake]
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surabi
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So even though I personally know the person it happened to and was around when it happened, you are calling me a liar. Because you are firmly
convinced that no one has ever been detained, had their vehicle impounded, and been deported for not being able to produce any document giving them
permission to be in Mexico.
Immigration agents have shown up several times over the years in my town on the mainland, setting up random checks of tourist visas, or going around
town checking businesses to see if any of their employees are working without documentation and work permission. And taking those caught away to some
sort of detention and deportation. I didn't hear it from someone who heard it from someone.
Your analogy with stingrays is absurd.
And warnings about not bothering to get a tourist visa has nothing to do with trying to scare people from coming to Mexico. If you get a tourist card,
there isn't anything to be scared of in that regard, is there?
[Edited on 3-13-2025 by surabi]
[Edited on 3-13-2025 by surabi]
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Lee
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| Quote: Originally posted by BeachSeeker | | Quote: Originally posted by surabi | I told you I know someone who was caught without any immigration documentation, jailed and deported and her motorbike confiscated. You can choose to
believe that or not.
|
Without any sort of proof, I choose not to believe your (at least) second hand account.
Here's why. How many people have you heard tell you that restaurants take stingray wings, cut them in circles, and sell them as scallops? It's
ubiquitous at this point, with everyone having some version of this story. However, it is absolutely false. Stingray doesn't have the texture, color,
or taste to fool a 2 year old into thinking its a scallop. How did this rumor get started? Well, someone heard from someone else that it happens. The
story gets told enough that everyone just believes it to be true. No one who has ever actually eaten a stingray would ever say that there is any way
it could be sold as a scallop. It's all second hand stories turned into urban legend.
I mean, is it possible to get jailed and your car stolen by the cops if you don't have an FMM, sure it is. It's also possible to be killed by cops for
having a counterfeit $20 in the states, and I have verifiable proof that actually happened (George Floyd).
Now, if your goal is to scare people away from going to Baja, hell I get it. Part of me is happy that Baja has (an unfounded) reputation of being so
unsafe that you shouldn't go there. Maybe you should post more rumors like that on iOverlander... |
Just a foolish analogy. Stingrays vs. immigration. Great.
surabi writes like she knows immigration. You do not.
US Marines: providing enemies of America an opportunity to die for their country since 1775.
What I say before any important decision.
F*ck it.
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bajatrailrider
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I only know one person deported about 5 years ago. He lived in Baja Malibu They came to his home. Asked for FMM had none put him in car took him to
TJ. Made him go back to Calif he waited one hour. Hitched a ride back went home Baja Malibu. They never came back
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mtgoat666
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You guys are pedantic nerds who would argue that “xerox” is not a synonym for photocopy.
Woke!
“...ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country.” “My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America
will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man.”
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Tioloco
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| Quote: Originally posted by AKgringo | | I would tell you about my experience making "Scallops" out of a large ray I caught, but it has nothing to do with Visas or FMMs.
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Much more interesting than the drivel from the know nothing experts here!
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