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Author: Subject: VISA vs FMM
mtgoat666
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[*] posted on 3-11-2025 at 08:49 AM


Quote: Originally posted by David K  
Wow... so much BS. GATO9632 is just confused about an FMM also being called a "visa" (by almost everyone).
Technically, a visa is for most overseas visitors to Mexico and an FMM (also called by some, a 'Tourist Permit') is for most North American and maybe a few other visitors. They are not the same and you don't need both if you are Canadian or American... just an FMM. A passport card or book is required to get it.


So much easier to call the fmm a ‘tourist visa.’

Common dictionary defn of visa:
“an endorsement issued by an authorized representative of a country and marked in a passport, permitting the passport holder to enter, travel through, or reside in that country for a specified amount of time, for the purpose of tourism, education, employment, etc.”

Fmm sure seems to be a visa!




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surabi
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[*] posted on 3-11-2025 at 09:41 AM


This article explains the difference between a tourist card and a visa as concerns Mexico.
https://visaguide.world/mexico-visa/tourist/#:~:text=However...

Of course, people are free to call things whatever they want.
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[*] posted on 3-11-2025 at 11:53 AM


Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666  
Quote: Originally posted by chatolj  
Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc  

you go to jail for a week and be deported (your vehicle confiscated)


Please share the information, Re: Place, date, name (s) of the jailed, deported and confiscated vehicle for simply not having having a FMM. I know its the law and I personally always have one for myself and all occupants traveling with with me but why post some total BS as that.


261 Americans deported from Mexico through Baja California in 2023
https://fox5sandiego.com/news/border-report/261-americans-de...

Leading countries of origin of returned foreign migrants in Mexico in 2023
https://www.statista.com/statistics/949708/number-returned-m...


Come one, why spread rumors like this? I guarantee you cannot come up with one single example of someone getting jailed for a week and their vehicle permanently confiscated for ONLY not having an FMM. Yes you will get "deported". In other words, they'll make you turn around and go get one, or leave the country. They might try to get a fine out of you, in the form of cash USD straight into their hand.

Goat, all your links show is that a (small) number of Americans were deported from Baja in 2023. It says nothing more than that. When this happens, it's usually just forcing them to leave the country of their own accord (drive back North). They aren't taking all of their possessions, jailing them, then dumping them out on the North side of the border.
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surabi
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[*] posted on 3-11-2025 at 12:26 PM


Quote: Originally posted by BeachSeeker  
When this happens, it's usually just forcing them to leave the country of their own accord (drive back North). They aren't taking all of their possessions, jailing them, then dumping them out on the North side of the border.


You call others' warnings BS, yet you are insisting that it's "usually just forcing them to leave the country of their own accord". So do you have some sort of proof that this is the case, or is this just your opinion presented as fact?

And "forced" and "of their own accord" are, by definition, mutually exclusive.
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[*] posted on 3-11-2025 at 12:40 PM


Quote: Originally posted by BeachSeeker  


Come one, why spread rumors like this? I guarantee you cannot come up with one single example of someone getting jailed for a week and their vehicle permanently confiscated for ONLY not having an FMM.


looks like this group might not be for you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1d2ubvWBkg&t=114s




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[*] posted on 3-11-2025 at 02:08 PM


Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc  
Quote: Originally posted by BeachSeeker  


Come one, why spread rumors like this? I guarantee you cannot come up with one single example of someone getting jailed for a week and their vehicle permanently confiscated for ONLY not having an FMM.


looks like this group might not be for you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1d2ubvWBkg&t=114s


Haha, great, you found a video that hardly applies to what we are talking about and doesn't meet either of the criteria of my challenge.

Julian was in an INM detention center for only 6 days. Not quite jail, and not quite a week, but close. Also, he did not have a vehicle confiscated.

He overstayed his tourist visa. This guy's whole story is entirely different than what we are talking about. If this is the best you've got, then you should probably stop spreading rumors that are simply not true.

Don't try to gatekeep this group just because someone called you out on something that didn't happen.

edit: Removed incorrect info about Germans requiring tourist visa.

[Edited on 3-12-2025 by BeachSeeker]
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[*] posted on 3-11-2025 at 02:13 PM


Quote: Originally posted by surabi  

You call others' warnings BS, yet you are insisting that it's "usually just forcing them to leave the country of their own accord". So do you have some sort of proof that this is the case, or is this just your opinion presented as fact?

And "forced" and "of their own accord" are, by definition, mutually exclusive.


I'm not saying not to get an FMM. Absolutely get one. I always have a valid FMM when I'm in Baja. But you bet I'm 100% calling someone out when they spread fear and rumors without any proof.
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[*] posted on 3-11-2025 at 02:44 PM


Quote: Originally posted by BeachSeeker  
If you are from other than America or Canada, the whole process is entirely different and you need more than just an FMM.

Please tell us what additional documentation a German citizen needs. :smug:




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[*] posted on 3-11-2025 at 03:55 PM


Quote: Originally posted by BeachSeeker  


If you are from other than America or Canada, the whole process is entirely different and you need more than just an FMM.


You obviously didn't bother to read the FMM/visa article I posted. You are now posting BS incorrect info, just as you are accusing others of. That article has a list of countries that only require tourist cards. All of the EU countries, plus 39 other countries, including the US and Canada.
One should really do a bit of research before trying to sound knowledgeable.
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[*] posted on 3-11-2025 at 05:36 PM


Quote: Originally posted by surabi  
Quote: Originally posted by BeachSeeker  


If you are from other than America or Canada, the whole process is entirely different and you need more than just an FMM.


You obviously didn't bother to read the FMM/visa article I posted. You are now posting BS incorrect info, just as you are accusing others of. That article has a list of countries that only require tourist cards. All of the EU countries, plus 39 other countries, including the US and Canada.
One should really do a bit of research before trying to sound knowledgeable.


My apologies, I was incorrect. Germany is one of the excluded countries.

However, you posted "BS" by saying it is the "Entire EU". The INM website states only those countries in the Schengen Area. So Cyprus for example, while being in the EU, does not qualify. So I guess we're all guilty of posting BS. The difference is whether we choose to double down on it, like Harald, or just admit our mistakes.

I stand by my claim that you cannot produce a verifiable example of someone in Baja getting jailed for a week and their vehicle permanently confiscated for ONLY not having an FMM.

[Edited on 3-12-2025 by BeachSeeker]
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[*] posted on 3-11-2025 at 06:06 PM


You are really missing the point. Mexico doesn't have specific immigration rules concerning Baja travelers and valid tourist cards. They have rules about being able to produce proof of permission to be in Mexico, whether that is a residency card or a tourist card. And arguing about whether anyone not in possession of any of those documents has or will go to jail and been or will be deported and their vehicle confiscated is silly. Immigration officials can do whatever they want, within Mexican law, (and detaining you in jail, deporting you and confiscating your vehicle fall within that) to those who choose not to respect the law.

I told you I know someone who was caught without any immigration documentation, jailed and deported and her motorbike confiscated. You can choose to believe that or not.

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[*] posted on 3-12-2025 at 12:12 PM


Quote: Originally posted by surabi  
I told you I know someone who was caught without any immigration documentation, jailed and deported and her motorbike confiscated. You can choose to believe that or not.


Without any sort of proof, I choose not to believe your (at least) second hand account.

Here's why. How many people have you heard tell you that restaurants take stingray wings, cut them in circles, and sell them as scallops? It's ubiquitous at this point, with everyone having some version of this story. However, it is absolutely false. Stingray doesn't have the texture, color, or taste to fool a 2 year old into thinking its a scallop. How did this rumor get started? Well, someone heard from someone else that it happens. The story gets told enough that everyone just believes it to be true. No one who has ever actually eaten a stingray would ever say that there is any way it could be sold as a scallop. It's all second hand stories turned into urban legend.

I mean, is it possible to get jailed and your car stolen by the cops if you don't have an FMM, sure it is. It's also possible to be killed by cops for having a counterfeit $20 in the states, and I have verifiable proof that actually happened (George Floyd).

Now, if your goal is to scare people away from going to Baja, hell I get it. Part of me is happy that Baja has (an unfounded) reputation of being so unsafe that you shouldn't go there. Maybe you should post more rumors like that on iOverlander...
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[*] posted on 3-12-2025 at 12:32 PM


I would tell you about my experience making "Scallops" out of a large ray I caught, but it has nothing to do with Visas or FMMs.



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[*] posted on 3-12-2025 at 02:01 PM


Quote: Originally posted by BeachSeeker  
Quote: Originally posted by surabi  
I told you I know someone who was caught without any immigration documentation, jailed and deported and her motorbike confiscated. You can choose to believe that or not.


I mean, is it possible to get jailed and your car stolen by the cops if you don't have an FMM, sure it is. It's also possible to be killed by cops for having a counterfeit $20 in the states, and I have verifiable proof that actually happened (George Floyd).

Now, if your goal is to scare people away from going to Baja, hell I get it. Part of me is happy that Baja has (an unfounded) reputation of being so unsafe that you shouldn't go there. Maybe you should post more rumors like that on iOverlander...


I think Mr. Floyd was not just using counterfeit money (why the store owner called the cops), but he was high on drugs and resisting arrest. So, let's include that tiny fact. No excuse for the brutal knee hold down that killed him but if he wasn't high and resisting, he would be alive.




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[*] posted on 3-12-2025 at 03:09 PM


Quote: Originally posted by BeachSeeker  
Quote: Originally posted by surabi  

You call others' warnings BS, yet you are insisting that it's "usually just forcing them to leave the country of their own accord". So do you have some sort of proof that this is the case, or is this just your opinion presented as fact?

And "forced" and "of their own accord" are, by definition, mutually exclusive.


I'm not saying not to get an FMM. Absolutely get one. I always have a valid FMM when I'm in Baja. But you bet I'm 100% calling someone out when they spread fear and rumors without any proof.


Around 2018 or 2019, when I was on the Lonely Planet Thorntree forum, before it closed permanently, there was a thread about an older woman from Canada who had driven her car to Mexico mainland. She had gotten all the paperwork, and an FMM online, but when she crossed into Mexico she was waved through by an ignorant border agent, instead of being told to park and have her FMM stamped in the office. A month later, when she was in southern Mexico, she was arrested for not having a valid FMM. She was taken to a detention center and this was reported in the news. Strangely, I cannot find this news report online now. I still have the Lonely Planet thread saved on a hard drive in storage. If I ever feel like digging it out I will post something more here.

Last I heard, the woman had been in detention for 10 days, had her car impounded (but maybe got it back later), and had spent a lot of money on an attorney to help her.

[Edited on 3-12-2025 by cupcake]
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[*] posted on 3-12-2025 at 05:03 PM


Quote: Originally posted by BeachSeeker  


Without any sort of proof, I choose not to believe your (at least) second hand account.



So even though I personally know the person it happened to and was around when it happened, you are calling me a liar. Because you are firmly convinced that no one has ever been detained, had their vehicle impounded, and been deported for not being able to produce any document giving them permission to be in Mexico.

Immigration agents have shown up several times over the years in my town on the mainland, setting up random checks of tourist visas, or going around town checking businesses to see if any of their employees are working without documentation and work permission. And taking those caught away to some sort of detention and deportation. I didn't hear it from someone who heard it from someone.


Your analogy with stingrays is absurd.

And warnings about not bothering to get a tourist visa has nothing to do with trying to scare people from coming to Mexico. If you get a tourist card, there isn't anything to be scared of in that regard, is there?

[Edited on 3-13-2025 by surabi]

[Edited on 3-13-2025 by surabi]
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[*] posted on 3-12-2025 at 05:51 PM


Quote: Originally posted by BeachSeeker  
Quote: Originally posted by surabi  
I told you I know someone who was caught without any immigration documentation, jailed and deported and her motorbike confiscated. You can choose to believe that or not.


Without any sort of proof, I choose not to believe your (at least) second hand account.

Here's why. How many people have you heard tell you that restaurants take stingray wings, cut them in circles, and sell them as scallops? It's ubiquitous at this point, with everyone having some version of this story. However, it is absolutely false. Stingray doesn't have the texture, color, or taste to fool a 2 year old into thinking its a scallop. How did this rumor get started? Well, someone heard from someone else that it happens. The story gets told enough that everyone just believes it to be true. No one who has ever actually eaten a stingray would ever say that there is any way it could be sold as a scallop. It's all second hand stories turned into urban legend.

I mean, is it possible to get jailed and your car stolen by the cops if you don't have an FMM, sure it is. It's also possible to be killed by cops for having a counterfeit $20 in the states, and I have verifiable proof that actually happened (George Floyd).

Now, if your goal is to scare people away from going to Baja, hell I get it. Part of me is happy that Baja has (an unfounded) reputation of being so unsafe that you shouldn't go there. Maybe you should post more rumors like that on iOverlander...


Just a foolish analogy. Stingrays vs. immigration. Great.

surabi writes like she knows immigration. You do not.









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[*] posted on 3-12-2025 at 07:53 PM


I only know one person deported about 5 years ago. He lived in Baja Malibu They came to his home. Asked for FMM had none put him in car took him to TJ. Made him go back to Calif he waited one hour. Hitched a ride back went home Baja Malibu. They never came back
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[*] posted on 3-12-2025 at 08:50 PM


You guys are pedantic nerds who would argue that “xerox” is not a synonym for photocopy.





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[*] posted on 3-12-2025 at 09:39 PM


Quote: Originally posted by AKgringo  
I would tell you about my experience making "Scallops" out of a large ray I caught, but it has nothing to do with Visas or FMMs.


Much more interesting than the drivel from the know nothing experts here!
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