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thebajarunner
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3718
Registered: 9-8-2003
Location: Arizona....."Free at last from crumbling Cali
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Mood: muy amable
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JR, that foto needs to go to:
1. Sal Fish
2. BFG corporate
3. Mexican (Baja) tourism commission
Time to put a stop to that kind of stuff
(and remember, I am a long-time racer)
After the F-1 fiasco at Indy by Michelin you would think that the tire companies needed a break from stupidity, doesn't look like that is happening
any time soon.
YUCK!!
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Sharksbaja
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5814
Registered: 9-7-2004
Location: Newport, Mulege B.C.S.
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JR, that really peees me off. I think I'll send their management a nice letter explaining how important it is not to have me send it to the news
anchor person I might know at a major TV network. It' s called name-dropping and BFG would be wise to make temporary signs(they will, you watch) and
to sand-blast off their past graffiti.
Have any more??
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Sharksbaja
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Do you have one with a license plate showing. If you can post or email me a couple of goodies I' ll forward with an explanation?? Who,where,when,why..
I doubt it would have a whole lot of impact on some considering who is doing the painting for who.
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David K
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All grafitti is bad... You caught one example of gringo grafitti being applied (and I hate to see any grafitti)... this is about 5% of the grafitti
along Mex. 1... Do you have photos any of the other 95% (Spanish language) culprets?
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TMW
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Location: Bakersfield, CA
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I'll pass the pix on to Bob Bower and see what he says or maybe he can pass it on to higher ups in BFG.
Maybe I'm wrong but I thought BFG only put up pre-made signs along the course if any at all. Their rig is kind of hard to miss. I would like to think
the guys in the pix were new crew members and did a stupid thing and not the norm. People need to be educated to not do these things and to pick up
after themselves and sometimes others too.
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Me No
Banned
Posts: 444
Registered: 11-24-2003
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JR. Please don't steal this thread. the graffiti sucks, but Carlos didn't do it. Carlos is a great guy and, I am proud to say, a friend of mine. I
have seen his injuries, not pretty I can assure you.
Ultimately, I have to agree with the position that roads are open in baja to the baja people. However. Its not like someone comes by the local
rancho to tell them to evacuate, even though this is an event that is put on with the full support of the government.
Flipper, was a person that was aware of the race, and infact was there in some sort of support role that still has not been explained. That doesn't
matter either, here is what does.
One person had a vehicular accident with another person on a road in baja. That needs to be reported. If you crash into someone in Mexico, your
fault or not, you need to report it. Lack of reporting, pretty much constitutes guilt in per the Nepolionic code. Think guilty until proved
innocent.
The great thing is that Carlos has several confessions, and will be OK.
[Edited on 7-13-2005 by Me No]
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jrbaja
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You're right MeNo
Doug, can the two subjects be separated?
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Sharksbaja
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Obviously had an unwitting, unknowing traveler been involved it would have been deemed a no-fault accident. But a person who knowingly went against
race traffic has little argument I'm afraid.
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Me No
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Start a new thread and copy and paste your responses here to it, then delete the ones here.
I will be the first one on your side of the graffiti issue.
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David K
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| Quote: | Originally posted by jrbaja
But how would you feel traveling through Yosemite seeing Baja Cactus or Pemex painted on the rocks?
Fortunately, these businesses have enough respect/class to not stoop to this juvenile behaviour. I would expect the same from someone as well known
as BFG. And I even use their tires.
I did show a lot of pictures of graffitti in a lot of places including Catavi?a to PROFEPA David. I haven't shown them these photos yet.
How do you think they would feel, Chewy and Lisa graffitti who happen to live in Baja or a huge gringo corporation pulling the same crap.
Perhaps the gringos couldn't afford plastic signs?
Are you saying that because someone else did it, it's ok for the foreigners? What exactly are you trying to say before I get mad again?
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>>>> NO JR, just what I said... and not what you think I mean...
Here's a summary of what I said, and they are my thoughts on the post:
1) ALL Grafitti is BAD.
2) With the great majority of grafitti applied by Mexicans, why post only a photo of gringos painting a boulder (if you have photos of Mexicans also
painting).
3) Perhaps showing the authorities only the gringos painting the rock, it would actually have LESS of an impact... as the government seems to look the
other way when their financial interests are at stake.... The gringo tourists and SCORE folks bring so much MONEY to Mexico... they know.
4) I would show 10 photos of grafitti painters... 9 Mexicans and the last one the SCORE related one... That is because over 90% of the grafitti is of
Mexican origin (IMO), and that could be what made the BFG guys think it was okay if they just painted one boulder. (still stupid on their part)
5) It will be easier for the government to go after (or educate) their own citizens than to find foreignors, the vast majority of whom DO NOT paint
grafitti in Mexico.
Is this perhaps a new way to think of this solution?
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Sharksbaja
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Good grief Charlie Brown!
Does this pic of a high profile team member defacing a big rock to display simple directions somehow bother you? I believe it underscores(pun) the
image gringos set and how they behave as guests. To me it shows a lack of respect. If it were two Mexicans I would still be upset. If you stop and
think about it for a minute you realize that everyone who passes that rock will know some p*nce gringo created it. Not a good example.
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Sharksbaja
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Sorry Me No, I'll move my post over if JR will start a new thread, otherwise I'll stay on-topic. Sharks
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Debra
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Location: Port Orchard Wa./Bahia de Los Angeles BC
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And to think we all hike miles (in great heat) to see those dang Mexican's (well, really Native American) graffiti.
Really, I hate to see MY "boulder forest" (Cativina) painted up like it is, but, I don't see the Mexicans doing it, it looks like English to me.
BTW, nice to see that JR and DK have "kissed and made up" I was about to call in 'ol Skeeter to take the both of you behind the wood shed!
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64852
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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As I said (more than once): all grafitti is bad...
I can tell you where to find more stupid gringo grafitti (painted by the SCORE crowd! Take the original Baja main road south from La Virgen to
Catavina (it joins Mex. 1 just north of the Cave art parking area, 2+ mi. north of Catavina). As you are winding through the beautiful boulders some
pin head made a comment to Sal Fish on the boulders... I am embarassed that Americans would do such an outdated thing in a beautiful place, as guests
in another country.
I am also sad that (some) Mexicans still seems to think leaving trash at their beach camps and taking the family to the boulders with spray paint to
legacy their trip is somehow okay... But, it is their country... 
[Edited on 7-13-2005 by David K]
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Debra
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Well, thank you MeNo.....at least you didn't curse at me.
And BTW it's "You're just an idiot" 
[Edited on 7-13-2005 by Debra]
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PJC
Super Nomad
Posts: 1670
Registered: 3-28-2003
Location: EVERYWHERE
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So DK are you dissing all racers with this comment?
| Quote: |
However, those that come to Baja only to take advantage of the great terrain a couple times a year... and may come (perhaps weeks) before the race,
think it is their land to play on and to Hell with anyone else that may want to use that road, are the rude ones... and maybe the dangerous element,
afterall?
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Then you go on with...
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However, because he had a head on with a fellow 'pre-runner' (entrant or not), going the 'wrong way' (only wrong on race day), we hear about it.
Being able to see both sides of this situation one might change thinking where the responsibility lies... ??? Posible, no?
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What are you saying/ Or, are you just typing for further "DK promotion?"
Then you say this...
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I guess the guy in the buggy could not even be considered a pre-runner, since the race did not run that direction!?!
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Just what in the eff is your position on this?
[Edited on 7-13-2005 by Baja Blackie]
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64852
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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Instead of breaking up my post into three partial bites, just read the entire post together, and think about how it might be considered by others less
biassed than you.
If the m/c pre-runner slammed into a local truck hauling chickens to the market (pre-running, not on race day), would you demand the chicken farmer
pay the m/c rider $4,000+? I am seeing if you can look at this in legal responsible terms, not as a friend to Carlos or off road racing.
Pre-running is not racing and those dirt roads are their for anybody who wants to or needs to drive on them... On race day is when they are designated
for the sport, but to expect those roads to be yours for your fun for a month before the race and all others better stay off, is just plain silly. In
reading the buggy driver's side of the story, the fact he offered as much as he did shows how bad he fealt for Carlos, but it was an accident and if
Carlos had veered to the right (as is the normal side of the road for North America to pass oncoming traffic), then it sounds as if there would have
been no collision!
Oh, and there is no promotion of 'me' when I post here... I don't sell anything... Like you, I am just contributing, so take it or leave it, ok?
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PJC
Super Nomad
Posts: 1670
Registered: 3-28-2003
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
Instead of breaking up my post into three partial bites, just read the entire post together, and think about how it might be considered by others less
biassed than you.
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 You consider anyone that asks you a questions or does not provide immediate "DK accolades" as biased.
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If the m/c pre-runner slammed into a local truck hauling chickens to the market (pre-running, not on race day), would you demand the chicken farmer
pay the m/c rider $4,000+? I am seeing if you can look at this in legal responsible terms, not as a friend to Carlos or off road racing.
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That would be a "no fault accident" and both parties would have to pay for their own damages or a percentage as determined by the authorities.
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Pre-running is not racing and those dirt roads are their for anybody who wants to or needs to drive on them...
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One of the only safety factors of Prerunning is a knowledge that your fellow racers and support teams largely respect the requests of SCORE to not run
backwards on the course.
And in particular, respect for SCORE's vehement request to not run backwards on that section between the Tres
Hermanos Y and Ojos Negros. The same section where an MC rider was killed in 1999 in this same scenario.
Not only was the buggy driver running backwards but the entire race team he was with fully planned to run backwards from the Y to Ojos before the
incident happened. Otherwise there was no reason for the buggy driver to reverse course after he proceeded in error to Urapan.
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On race day is when they are designated for the sport, but to expect those roads to be yours for your fun for a month before the race and all others
better stay off, is just plain silly.
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You are the only person that has made this statement and, as if you bear some level of credence via your single, aborted race attempt back in the
early seventies this grandstanding is no surprise.
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In reading the buggy driver's side of the story, the fact he offered as much as he did shows how bad he fealt for Carlos, but it was an accident and
if Carlos had veered to the right (as is the normal side of the road for North America to pass oncoming traffic), then it sounds as if there would
have been no collision!
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That is pure conjecture. You were not there and you are the farthest thing from a traffic accident analysis engineer on this planet.
You also fail to recognize the additional expense items that Carlos had to deal with to include medical, lost race fees, and lost, unpaid time away
from work.
You also fail to recognize that the buggy driver has a history of reckless behaviour at the wheel of his car as revealed in his payout for an accident
at Ocotillo Wells and resulting lawsuit.
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Oh, and there is no promotion of 'me' when I post here... I don't sell anything... Like you, I am just contributing, so take it or leave it, ok?
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Take it or leave it? That goes two ways. Your self promotion remains repulsive.
Shoot, Shovel and Shut-up!
-- A simple operating practice.
‘Global warming’ has become the grand political narrative of the age, replacing Marxism as a dominant force for controlling liberty and human
choices.
-- Prof. P. Stott
Time was, people warning the world \"Repent - the end is nigh!\" were snickered at as fruitcakes.
Now they own the media and run the schools.
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64852
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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>> Take it or leave it? That goes two ways. Your self promotion remains repulsive. <<
As if the world wide web doesn't know you're a Republican ?? Tell me again Patrick, what am I selling? Have I ever claimed to be anything more than a
person who loves Baja and will never live long enough to know it all?
My comments above are just to give another view on the sad accident. If you read my post more carefully, you will see I also was on Carlos' side...
>>> You are the only person that has made this statement and, as if you bear some level of credence via your single, aborted race attempt
back in the early seventies this grandstanding is no surprise<<<
Really, than it is good I did make it... You really need to see the world from more than one point of view.
My 'race attempt' was neither aborted or in the early seventies... You should check your facts or read my web site bio.
The fact is I was a co-driver in the first SCORE Baja 1000 to La Paz (do I need to tell you what year Pat?), and has nothing to do with my
observations other than pre-running is not racing, nor needs to be at race speed. By the way, Sal Fish was the one who wished us good luck just before
we roared off the wooden platform in Ensenada... so that isn't what I would call abortive. We did break down before it was my turn behind the wheel,
but it was fun, none the less.
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bajalou
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Don't expect you all to agree, but the RACE is not the most important thing in the world. As many of you know, I live about 3 miles from where the
races go in San Felipe. I attend all of them and travel to see a few others also so I'm definately not "anti race".
The race course is NOT a closed course. It is open at all times for all other traffic, be it the local farmers and ranchers, or someone just out for
a outing in the desert. It might be dumb to be on the course when racers are out, but it isn't against the law to be stupid. Like on any road
anywhere, you got to look out for what might be there.
One of the most agrivating things to mee ysed to be the "Chase cars" running thru our residential neighborhood at above 60MPH. What the hell is 1
minute earlier going to do for a chase or pit crew that will undoubtly spend the next 1-6 hours waiting.
I enjoy the races and want them to continue, but some of the crews etc. need to pay a little more attention to the rest of the world that they are
running in.
No Bad Days
\"Never argue with an idiot. People watching may not be able to tell the difference\"
\"The trouble with doing nothing is - how do I know when I\'m done?\"
Nomad Baja Interactive map
And in the San Felipe area - check out Valle Chico area |
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