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academicanarchist
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Population Estimates
Scholars really do not know how many natives lived in Baja California when the Spanish first arrived. There have been acrimonious debates over the
size of native populations at contact, tied into the "black" vs the "white" legends. In other words, did Spanish/European colonization benefit or not
benefit the native populations.
Estimators of contact population sizes bring biases and perspectives to their guesses. Some tend to see large native populations, and others not so
large populations. The 50,000 range of population for Baja came from a 1937 article by Sherburne Cook, who was a professor at Berkeley who spent
decades with historian Wodrow Borah trying to arrive at educated guesses of population sizes. Cook and Borah tended to estimate in the high range.
I do not believe that there were as many as 50,000 natives in Baja California, although the Cape region was clearly the most populous part of the
Peninsula along with the region from Rosario to the border and the interior mountains where there are oak trees. The early mission censuses along with
baptismal registers give us a better idea of how many people were in the Peninsula in the early mission period.
Here are some of the earliest population figures for the souther missions: San Jose del Cabo 946 in 1730 and 1,040 in 1733; Todos Santos 500 in 1730;
Santiago 1,000 in 1742; Dolores del Sur 1,000 in 1744; San Luis Gonzaga 516 in 1744.
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Stephanie Jackter
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Where would you guesstimate the total, Ac?
When the goin' gets tough, the wierd turn pro
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academicanarchist
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Guestimate of population
I would say in the range of 30,000-40,000, but I stopped trying to guess these population sizes years ago. The surviving records for the Baja
California missions are rich enough to provide a good picture of demographic patterns.
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Mike Humfreville
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Indigenous Population
I'm certain you have heard about/read this book. I can't remember the name. I borrowed it from the main branch of the Los Angeles County Library
about 5 years ago. An appendix gave an inventory of each mission for the years the source had received an accounting (most years in the 1700's and
1800's). The inventory included pigs, chickens, mules/horses, goats, Eurpoeans and Indians if I remember correctly.
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Family Guy
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Were all the natives neophytes?
The mission history tells us how many indigenous were members of the mission. The real question, however, is how many indigenous were not members of
the various missions, if any?
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academicanarchist
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How Many Indians?
By the late 1760s, there were no Indians living permanently outside of the missions, although there were numbers of fugitives eventually brought back.
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academicanarchist
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Books with data on livestock and crops
Three books come to mind that have previously published data on numbers of livestock and agricultural production. They would be Zephyrin Engelhardt's
book on the missions of Lower California. The second edition (1929) is more complete. The Seceond would be Peveril Meigs's 1935 book on the Dominican
Mission Frontier, published, I would add, by U.C. Press. The third would be Homer Aschmann's 1959 monograph on the missions of the Central Desert.
From the 1770s until the 1830s, the missionaries prepared annual reports of all activities in the missions, including building construction, crop
production, numbers of livestock, etc. One thing about the Spanish government, was that it was anal in terms of paperwork. The governor kept one set
of reports, the father president a second, and a third set went to Mexico City. The father president also prepared a summary of vital rates, crop
production, and numbers of livestock. Most of the reports survive for the California missions, and a handful for the Baja California missions. They
are split between an archive in Mexico City (1770-1798) and the Santa Barbara Mission Archive-Library.
In the 1880s, H.E. Bancroft sent his team to extract data from a set of reports housed in San Francisco, what had been the California governor's
archive. They created tables for the California and Baja California missions, that are preserved today in the Bancroft Library at U.C. Berkeley. The
location of the original documents in San Francisco is significant, because sadly they went up in smoke in 1906.
One of my manuscripts at Tim's web site contains the available data on livestock and grain production at the Baja California missions, which is
limited. I have also collected and published some of the data on California mission agriculture and livestock. I have been contacted by a press to put
together a volume with statistics from the Baja California and California missions.
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Ski Baja
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Preserving Historic Sites
It's very comforting to know that you and David have taken it upon yourselves to preserve the historic sites of Baja, Mexico.
I don't go to these sites unescorted and as well as most of the Mexican's learning about not littering, they are also realizing the importance of
preserving their history.
I am flattered by their willingness to share it with me when they have not with others. Probably my messed up political and national views I
suppose. There are after all, people that think the same way as I do. Just very few on the north side of that ridiculous border.
They are also aware of what happens when "agencies" step in. They are not looking for that kind of tourism. I suppose it would be rather hard to
change a 200 year old lifestyle so that "scientists" can appease their own interests.
I, as well take offense at someone's assumption that they are the only ones qualified to perform certain tasks. Especially when the people that live
in at least the same country don't want things disturbed, or the performing of any of these tasks. In other words, they like it the way it is.
I understand some of your feelings on the "collage" and I really don't know how long it has been like that. I didn't really think it was any of my
business. What I do know is that they are not disturbing things anymore unless you consider picking up arrowheads a major problem. And in which case,
where would you have these wonderful people relocated to while "Scientists" poke around for these arrowheads in a professional manner?
I was warned about sharing history on these boards and I see it was a mistake. It won't happen again.
And by the way AA, I truly enjoy your information and a good portion of your posts as well. Thank you.
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academicanarchist
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Sharing History
There is nothing wrong with sharing history on the board. It raises awareness for the need to preserve historic sites, and visitors will have more
information and hopefully more of a respect for not distrubing fragile sites, be they caves, mission ruins, etc. David, Tim Walker, and others
including me have shared photos and information for some time, to benefit others who visit the web sites or forums.
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academicanarchist
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Arrow Heads
One more thought. I really don't understand your ambivalence towards "professionals." Mexican scholars recognize the importance of their history. The
reality, however, is that Mexico does not have the resources that the United States has to fund research on all sites. Artifacts such as arrow heads
only have value when placed within the context of a site, which is why I would say that picking up artifacts is problematic unless the site the
artifact came from is carefully documented.
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Ski Baja
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Resources
Because the U.S. obviously has more resources ($$) than most other countries, they should be entitled to go where they want and do as they please?
Oh wait, they already do.
Perhaps you should just get George Dubya to state that these "Puntas" are really weapons of mass destruction and then yall can take over this
country too.
And it's nothing personal about the "Professionals". But as long as they are Americans, shouldn't they be digging in their own yards? Or have those
valueless arrowheads all disappeared up there?
I notice the presents I received are worth quite a lot of $$ on the internet. They are going on display down south when the time is right. Not for
sale or even evaluation. (Some say they make them just before I get there!) They belong to the people that probably had relatives involved with either
the making or the shooting of these Puntas. It was very nice of them to share them with me but I know where they belong.
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academicanarchist
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Professionals
The professionals who should excavate the cave sites should come from INAH, not UCLA. I am apalled at the sale of cultural artifacts on Ebay or
similar venues that have been taken from other countries.
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Ski Baja
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Excavations
Well, we certainly agree on that then. On the other hand, many of the locals don't want any digging done period. Something to do with respect.
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bajalera
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Academic:
A few yards back, you expressed puzzlement that someone would feel you were intruding on his comments.
It seems to me that the reverse is true, that you seem to regard other posters as intruders into the Historic Interests section (which currently looks
like the Robert Jackson web site).
A month or so ago, Ski Baja posted some interesting stuff, and you replied with an erudite commentary that was really quite irrelevant to his post.
I recently posted some material on the Pericu, and you replied with info you apparently feel I need to know. I definitely get the feeling that
posting anything in the History section will bring on an attack of Yes-I-Can-Top-That from the guardian of this territory.
bajalera
[Edited on 11-29-2003 by bajalera]
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academicanarchist
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Response
Bajalera. The purpose of the forum is to exchange information and ideas. You presented information, and I responded to your posting. As I recall, I
did not insult you, make any personal comments about you, or anything like that. I expressed my views, and asked you to post additional information. I
am sorry if you have a problem with that, but I will continue to post my views and I will encourage you to do the same. If you think I am wrong in my
facts, then explain why.
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Ski Baja
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And rather than argue
I have decided to hit those cuevas with #1, a lawn blower. #2. a metal detector. #3. 12 cans of spray paint. And last but not least, #4. A case of Old
English 800 cans to leave along the trail so the scientists can find their way back to the emptiness I will leave them.
I think we should all stop argueing and work out something we mutually agree on. Like say, this years Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Issue. I bet
even we can't argue about that!
There now, I just proved what a Barney I really am. See ya in 3 or 4 weeks.
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academicanarchist
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Only full beer cans
Ski. Only full beer cans are allowed.
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bajalera
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guaycura
Packoderm, I missed this post when it was still fresh, but think you did it correctly, too.
\"Very few things happen at the right time, and the rest never happen at all. The conscientious historian will correct these defects.\" -
Mark Twain
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academicanarchist
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Your last post
Bajalera. Your last post does not make sense?
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bajalera
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Packoderm's Post
Finally something we agree on, AA--that last post was mystic, if not downright stupid.
I was referring to a 10/30 contribution by Packoderm, which he prefaced by saying he might be regarded as something of
an understudy, that he hoped no one would mind his contribution, but he thought he had done it correctly.
I thought it was not only done correctly but was also interesting. And the modesty was certainly refreshing.
Carry on, Pack!
\"Very few things happen at the right time, and the rest never happen at all. The conscientious historian will correct these defects.\" -
Mark Twain
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