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wilderone
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3824
Registered: 2-9-2004
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"Apparently, Mexicans don't feel this way. It was Mexicans who sold the land and Mexican officials who issued the enviornmental/construction permits."
FONATUR is not "Mexicans". John McCarthy would sell his Mother if she had anything to do with developing the most desireable beaches of Mexico. It
is a travesty, regardless of what those shortsighted, greedy bastards are doing - whatever their nationality. The most cursory research will reveal
the environmental, social and cultural travesty that Cancun has wrought. Baja California Sur has already suffered (Cabo), and will continue to
deteriorate into a shameless facsimile of Southern California or Miami, losing the essence of anything uniquely Baja Californian. Indeed, a travesty.
Those who champion these efforts are ignorant co-conspirators of the destruction. And make no mistake - this is not "development" it is destruction -
pure and simple.
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tehag
Super Nomad
Posts: 1248
Registered: 1-8-2005
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Loreto
Wilderone:
If you develop any strong feelings on the subject, let the Nomads know, OK?
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Skeet/Loreto
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4709
Registered: 9-2-2003
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This is very much like San Francisco, Scottsdale AZ. New Orleans, and other places that were developed by PrivatemInterest.
Just because agroup of young Eco"s think it is Bad does not make it SO!!
Skeet/Loreto
It is the people that make Cabo so Bad, not the Beach!!
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capt. mike
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8085
Registered: 11-26-2002
Location: Bat Cave
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Mood: Sling time!
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hahahahahahahha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
gotta love what development discussions bring on! Knot headed liberal eco-nutz vs. the capitalistic farsighted venturists. I saw an article once
wherein some were deploring the fact that buildings were going up to 5 stories in ht. blocking views and creating unhealthy densities, the circa was
1880s in New York city! Same old story.....different day. Same outcome....progress.
Skeet, i give Playboys to the federales at the El Gallito strip when i come in, they love it!!
formerly Ordained in Rev. Ewing\'s Church by Mail - busted on tax fraud.......
Now joined L. Ron Hoover\'s church of Appliantology
\"Remember there is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over....\"
www.facebook.com/michael.l.goering |
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Skeet/Loreto
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4709
Registered: 9-2-2003
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We are having a "Development Problem in Amarillo Texas:
Some of the new Neighbors with out Garages are buying and puting up Carports insted. $500 Deductible on Hail Damage for a Car. Other neighbors thinks
it "Degades the neighbohood"
Different Strokes for Different Folks"! Skeet
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elgatoloco
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4332
Registered: 11-19-2002
Location: Yes
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Cinco- Lots of Humpback whales in the Sea of Cortez.
MAGA
Making Attorneys Get Attorneys
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elizabeth
Senior Nomad
Posts: 742
Registered: 7-30-2004
Location: Loreto, BCS
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http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/12/14/MNGN...
Try the above link to the San Francisco Chronicle...or just go to the chronicle website and search "humpback". There is a great story of divers here
saving a humpback who became entangeled in lines from crab pots here on her migration to Baja.
There are three spots that Humpbacks migrate to in the fall...Baja, Japan, and Hawaii. Most do go to Hawaii.
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elizabeth
Senior Nomad
Posts: 742
Registered: 7-30-2004
Location: Loreto, BCS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
Just because agroup of young Eco"s think it is Bad does not make it SO!!
Skeet/Loreto
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Doesn't make it not so either!
And just because a Mexican government agency is part of a project doesn't make it environmentally sound. There is a major problem with building a
development that will double or triple a population in an area that has an aquifer that is being depleted, a sewage treatment plant that is marginal,
not to speak of the current social problems.
It isn't very helpful to call people who are concerned with the environment names (Capt. Mike). If you have some evidence that there is not an
environmental problem, talking about it would be more responsible.
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wilderone
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3824
Registered: 2-9-2004
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"Just because agroup of young Eco"s think it is Bad does not make it SO!!"
Is this supposed to be some kind of logic? what absolute nonsense. I'm picking up where JR left off - P-nche gringos!
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tehag
Super Nomad
Posts: 1248
Registered: 1-8-2005
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Loreto
I don't consider myself a young eco nut, but I do have some concerns about what is happening, has happened, and will likely continue to happen in Baja
California. I am not a got mine guy, nor am I against development or progress. What I am, though, is a Bajaphile who can see that healthy, inteligent
dialogue is far more likely to help assure an agreeable future than spatting over lables and slogans.
Let's shout less and talk more, shall we?
Water, infrastructure, population, etc. are perfectly valid points upon which to question developers and authorities, and we should continue to press
for answers and action on these fronts.
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Skeet/Loreto
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4709
Registered: 9-2-2003
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Lis;
It also does not make it TRUE!
We, Ole Farts, have been so bombarded by the Eco's in the past 20 years that now, each time something is Posted, the thought is "Its just another
Eco-Nut}.
Some of their stuff is "Good Stuff", but lately some off it has been simply Foolish.!
Such as the P>E>T>A stuff Can you even imagine How many people would die if they did nt have Chicken and Beef to Eat.??
Where would we Stack all the People if a few of them did not go to Loreto and Live in the Villages, maybe no water, or go to Palm Springs, which is
overloaded??
i do not profess to have an Answer but I know that it cannot be solved by those Eco's who have no other solution other than Stop All eating of Beef
and Chicken!!!
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Anonymous
Unregistered
Posts: N/A
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With the growth explosion in Cabo where does their H2o come from?
In the Coachella Valley where rainfall is almost non existent where does their water come from...Palm Springs all the way to Indio...Golf courses
galore and seems the building is escalating. I remember when Palm Desert was just filled with Date palms with the Date Festival...no mas. The land
owners made more $$$ selling the palms to all the strip malls being built than the property was worth....now the land is like gold. No different in
Baja only it's way more expansive down yonder..with the Mexican Government's blessing.
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Don Alley
Super Nomad
Posts: 1997
Registered: 12-4-2003
Location: Loreto
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Where will Loreto development water come from?
I've heard this from several locals... Loreto's government thinks that their water supplies are adequate for the development planned in the area.
First of all, per capita water consumption in town is double normal; excess "usage" is attributed to leaks in the poorly maintained system. The city
plans to begin metering water, and collecting more funds, which will be used to repair the leaky system. In addition, there are additional wells at
the area where Loreto's water is pumped. And the city believes there are other sources that can be tapped.
Now I did speak with the University of Arizona hydrologist who said that the existing aquifer is receding and does not have the capacity for anywhare
near projected growth. He did not believe Loereto Bay's water development plans were sound. His findings are part of a report on Fonatur's development
plans.
Officials in Loreto reject those findings. Who is correct? Don't ask me. 
In any event, perhaps the scarcity of water (if there is a scarcity) is only an impediment to small developers with limited capital. Loreto Bay and
perhaps other rumored developers are in a different league; they can solve the water problem simply by throwing tons of money at it. Desalinization is
the obvious course of action. They'll get their water one way or another. What the municipality will do is another matter. While Loreto Bay seems to
promise to develop all the water for its own needs AND water for Loreto, it probably will not be enough for growth pegged at 10 new Loreto residents
for each Loreto Bay unit. So far, I don't know where Loreto Bay's current household water is coming from, but I believe for the present it comes from
the same pipeline as Loreto's?
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Ken Bondy
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3326
Registered: 12-13-2002
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Mood: Mellow
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elizabeth
Add one more place to your list. The Atlantic humpback population (about 6000 whales) breeds and calves every winter and spring in an area of the
Caribbean just north of the Dominican Republic called the "Silver Banks". It is a spectacular area in which to view humpbacks.
++Ken++
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tehag
Super Nomad
Posts: 1248
Registered: 1-8-2005
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Loreto water
That is correct; Loreto is supplying the water for the couple of move ins at Loreto Bay. There is no actual construction being done to change this.
Economies of scale haven't yet reached the level where it makes sense for LB to start construction of their desal plant.
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elizabeth
Senior Nomad
Posts: 742
Registered: 7-30-2004
Location: Loreto, BCS
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Ken Bondy
elizabeth
Add one more place to your list. The Atlantic humpback population (about 6000 whales) breeds and calves every winter and spring in an area of the
Caribbean just north of the Dominican Republic called the "Silver Banks". It is a spectacular area in which to view humpbacks.
++Ken++ |
You're right, I should have said Pacific Humpbacks...
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Santiago
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3512
Registered: 8-27-2003
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Don Alley
an authentic hillside village!
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Can someone please to a good JR for me?
DA: I'm sure you had tounge-in-cheek.
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Skeet/Loreto
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4709
Registered: 9-2-2003
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Old Story-
Shortly after the Golf Course was finished, it was using 200,000 Gallons a Day.
The Ranchers at San Juan had sold most of their Water rights.
The People of Loreto demand more water and the Govt. came in a Drilled 9 New Wells in the mountains above Loreto.
At Ligui- Angus McKensie paid for Drilling a Well in the Mountains above Ligui, the govt?local people installed and now use that for the water in
their small area.
The only time there will be enough Water is if it keeps raining in the Mountains. Time will tell if Loreto has another 7 year Drought.
Skeet/Loreto
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Phil S
Super Nomad
Posts: 1205
Registered: 10-28-2003
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Mood: After 34 years. Still in love w/ my wife
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Loreto Bay is prepared to build a desalt plant as the time presents itself. They were "assured" by the Mexican Gov't that there was enough water for
their project. I'm sure that data was provided to David Butterfield and his project managers to satisfy them, before investing the amount of money
they have done, before they even started ground breaking. No one with David & Jim Grogans background is going to go into this "blindfolded" just
for the money. Meet David & Jim and you'll then know that they aren't "just in it for the money". There is more to it than that. Plus, plans
are in effect for eventually watering the golf course and roadways with recycled & reprocessed sewer treatment water. Give these folks some
credit for knowing what their doing. I think Capt. Mike knows exactly what I'm saying. Mike. Any chance you might know Jim Grogans reputation up
there in Arizona?
Skeet. Wish I had arrived the same time you had in Loreto, and could see the 'slow growth' during your days there. Then you leave, and suddenly it's
starting to explode. Did you know that was about to happen???? That why you boogied out? I still chuckle at "your last lot you sold there", turns
out to be a fellow in Roseburg Oregon that I know. And is he excited about getting down there and start building. Something "catching" for sure about
Loreto. And I"m sure we "ain't" seen nothing yet. And Pam. Hang onto your money belt. Business will get better for all this activity. I'm happy
to see it happening. Not for my own needs. I'm just a visitor down there. But for the locals. It will mean more paved streets. More businesses to
increase the selection of products needed but not represented there yet. Sure. More traffic problems. I don't like that thought. But it's the overall
picture that really matters. More money means a better way of life for all. Who knows. Maybe Cabo Wabo & a few others will be coming
too!!!!!!!!!!
[Edited on 12-17-2005 by Phil S]
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friend of baja
Junior Nomad
Posts: 29
Registered: 3-8-2005
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Thanks for the honest post Phil. I have not met anyone, who after meeting Jim Grogan or David Butterfield, has any other impression other than they
are absolutely committed to the vision of a truly sustainable community. They exude honesty and integrity, which is probably why so many buyers are
existing friends or previous buyers in their developments.
I think it is also important for people to realize, when they point fingers at Loreto Bay Co. for servicing concerns like, sewer, water and
electricity that it is actually Fonatur, as part of their 25 year committment to the partnership, that is responsible for providing these services.
As part of their sustainability vision, Loreto Bay Co. has independently committed to providing more potable water than they use, more power than they
consume and more biodiversity than was there before they came.
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