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woody with a view
PITA Nomad
Posts: 15939
Registered: 11-8-2004
Location: Looking at the Coronado Islands
Member Is Offline
Mood: Everchangin'
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in march the quesadilla telegraph at the marina was the mouth was closed due to a heavy sandbar that replentished itself as fast as they dredged it.
no work had been done in a month. they were, however, furioulsy working on the road!!!
although an engineer probably has other ideas, the locals were calling it a lake.  
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woody with a view
PITA Nomad
Posts: 15939
Registered: 11-8-2004
Location: Looking at the Coronado Islands
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Mood: Everchangin'
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my $.02 worth
this is a copy of the email i wrote to the mentioned in the article. short and to the point. and probably useless....
Senors;
Please take the utmost care and planning BEFORE starting any construction on the marina planned for Punta Abreojos, BCS. The area is a SPECIAL surfing
spot in addition to a vital fishery for the local population.
One only has to look at the disaster that is the marina at Santa Rosalillita, BCN to know what I'm refering to. PLEASE take some extra time to assess
all of the options and to listen to all of the differing opinions.
Remember Santa Rosalillita?
Thank You,
Bob Wood
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wilderone
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3810
Registered: 2-9-2004
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"That's Life. That's Progress (or so they say). No matter how many "little" things any of us do, it will have no impact on the macro picture in Baja
that is being driven by HUGE amounts of investment dollars."
THIS IS EXACTLY THE ATTITUDE THAT PROMOTES, HASTENS, EXACERBATES AND ENCOURAGES THE KILLING OF BAJA.
If you had an ounce of courage, intelligence, drive and altruism, you could make a difference to stop the killing of Baja.
It IS every single LITTLE thing that each one of us can do, that will enable Baja to continue to be what it is. The technology is there to be
utilized, and manpower exists, and the dollars would be forthcoming.
It only takes the courage, intelligence, drive and altruism of human beings to make it happen.
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wilderone
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3810
Registered: 2-9-2004
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Use some of these contacts and make a difference:
"Find out just what people will submit to, and you have found the exact amount of injustice and wrongdoing which will be imposed on them; and these
will continue until they are resisted with either words or blows, or with both. The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom
they oppress."
Frederick Douglas, 1857
Edmund Burke once said, ?The only thing it takes for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing.?
Teresa Matamoros
Marketing Director
Baja California State Tourism Secretariat
Lic. Mar?a Teresa Matamoros Montes
Directora de Mercadotecnia
SECRETARIA DE TURISMO DEL ESTADO DE BAJA CALIFORNIA
Tels. (664) 634-6330 / 634-6574 Fax 634-7157
BAJA CALIFORNIA EL MAGICO NORTE DE LA PENINSULA
www.descubrebajacalifornia.com
www.discoverbajacalifornia.com
PRESIDENTE VICENTE FOX
RESIDENCIA OFICIAL DE LOS PINOS
COL. SAN MIGUEL CHAPULTEPEC
11850 MEXICO D.F.
MEXICO D.F.
EMAIL : ciudadano@presidencia.gob.mx
Mr. VICTOR LICHTINGER
SECRETARIA DEL MEDIO AMBIENTE Y RECURSOS NATURALES (SEMARNAT)
PERIFERICO SUR 4209
COL. JARDINES DE LA MONTA?A
TLALPAN
14210 MEXICO D.F. MEXICO
EMAIL: vlichtinger@semarnat.gob.mx
* Grupo de los Cien Internacional, A.C. *
Apartado Postal 41-523
Col. Virreyes
* Mexico D.F. 11001, Mexico *
* Fax (525)520-3577 *
<grupo100@laneta.apc.org>
FONATUR:
MISION
?Participar en la consolidaci?n del desarrollo sustentable del pa?s, a trav?s del fomento de la actividad tur?stica nacional?.
John McCarthy
FONDO NACIONAL DE FOMENTO AL TURISMO
Tecoyotitla No. 100
Col. Florida C.P. 01030 M?xico D.F.
Tel.: 54 - 48 - 42 - 00
____________________________
SECRETAR?A DE TURISMO
Av. Presidente Masaryk No. 172, Col. Chapultepec Morales,
C.P. 11587, M?xico, Distrito Federal.
Tel?fono: (55) 3002-6300
____________________
International Community Foundation., foundation president Richard Kiy:
Established in 1990, ICF is a public charity working to foster lasting philanthropy to benefit under-served communities throughout the Americas and
Asia. With over 70% of ICF?s recent grantmaking benefiting charitable causes along the Baja California peninsula, ICF is committed to assisting US.
donors with charitable giving needs from Tijuana to Los Cabos.
For individual donors wishing to make a difference in Mexico, ICF also offers a reliable and efficient tax-deductible vehicle without being subject to
the restrictions set forth in the 1996 U.S.-Mexico Tax Treaty which stipulates that tax-deductible individual giving in Mexico be limited to one?s
Mexican-sourced income.
International Community Foundation
11300 Sorrento Valley Road, Ste. 115
San Diego, CA 92121
Office: (858) 677-2913 Fax: (858) 677-2918
renetta@icfdn.org
Pro Peninsula
P.O. Box 7175 San Diego, CA 92167
Tel: (619) 723-0700 Fax: (619) 374-7162
Email: info@propeninsula.org
_______________________
The Secretariat of Environment and Natural Resources (Secretar?a del Medio Ambiente y Recursos Naturales, SEMARNAT) is a government agency whose main
purpose is to create a State environmental protection policy reversing the tendencies of ecological deterioration and establishing the bases for a
sustainable development in the country.
The generation of scientific and technical information on environmental issues and the training of human resources, in order to inform society,
support decision making, encourage the protection of the environment, promote the sustainable use of natural resources, and support the Secretary of
the Environment and Natural Resources in reaching its goals.
SEMARNAP - Ra?l Marc? del Pont Lalli. Direcci?n de Publicaciones.
Instituto Nacional de Ecolog?a
Perif?rico sur 5000, Col. Insurgentes Cuicuilco
Deleg. Coyoac?n, C.P. 04530
Tel.: (55) 54 24 64 35, fax: (55) 54 24 52 41
E-mail: pmarco@ine.gob.mx
______________________
PROFEPA:
Mission:
Contain the destruction of our natural resources and to revert the processes of environmental deterioration.
Ensure the unrestricted access to society to the duty of doing environmental justice in a prompt manner.
Involve Society and its organizations in the surveillance and induction of the compliance with environmental law. Society and its organizations must
be informed and have a responsible participation.
Strengthen the presence of the Attorney General for Environmental Protection and to extend its territorial coverage, with a federalist criteria.
Construct an efficient and modern institution, under criteria of honesty, transparency and trustworthiness, transmitting a new image to society.
Corrently Mr. Luege is the Attorney General for Environmental Protection, at the ministry of environment and National Resources
Address: La Ley al Servicio de la Naturaleza?. M?xico D.F. 2002. Derechos Reservados. Desarrollado por
Kiven S.C.
Federal attorney for environmental protection:
Edificio AJUSCO
Carretera Picacho-Ajusco 200
Col. Jardines en la Monta?a
Deleg. Tlalpan, C.P. 14210, M?xico D.F.
tel. 54-49-63-00
De cualquier parte de la Rep?blica marque sin costo al tel?fono
01-800-77-033-72
01-800-77-033-72
pfpaweb@correo.profepa.gob.mx
________________________________
___________________
WiLDCOAST is an international conservation team dedicated to preserving endangered marine species and threatened coastal wildlands of the Californias.
Through community-based conservation, we work to eliminate threats to ecosystems and to develop reserves to permanently protect sensitive areas. Our
partnerships with local people, governments, and nonprofit organizations are critical to the successful recovery of imperiled species and the defense
of their coastal habitats.
WiLDCOAST
925 Seacoast Drive
Imperial Beach, CA 91932
Phone: (619) 423-8665
Fax: (619) 423-8488
Email: info@wildcoast.net
____________________
Nature Conservancy:
Our Mission
To preserve the plants, animals and natural communities that represent the diversity of life on Earth by protecting the lands and waters they need to
survive
Worldwide Office
The Nature Conservancy
4245 North Fairfax Drive, Suite 100
Arlington, VA 22203-1606
Southern Baja California Program
Calle Alvaro Obreg?n #460 Of. 206
Colonia Centro
La Paz, Baja California Sur 23000
Mexico
(52) 612 125-9444
California Field Office
201 Mission Street
4th Floor
San Francisco, CA 94105
(415) 777-0487
calweb@tnc.org
_______________________
Pronatura A. C
Asp?rgulas N? 22 (antes Pino)
Col. San Clemente, C. P. 01740, M?xico, D.F.
Tel./fax (55) 5635-5054
pronatura@pronatura.org.mx
www.pronatura.org.mx
CONANP:
Alfredo Zavala Gonz??lez, oversees protection of the Sea of Cortez islands for Mexico's National Commission of Protected Areas
Camino al Ajusco #200, Col. Jard?nes en la Monta?a, Delegaci?n Tlalpan, M?xico, Distrito Federal, C?digo Postal 14210,
Conmutador +52 555449 6300, Correo electr?nico info@conanp.gob.mx
MEXIDATA@IX.netcom.com
Barnard R. Thompson
MIRA
PO Box 33782
San Diego CA 92163
Barnard Thompson has spent more than 40 years in Mexico and Latin America, providing consulting, business, governmental affairs, facilitation,
lobbying and problem resolution services for a variety of multinational clients.
www.worldtalkradio.com
Attn: Ted Donovan
Michael Purdy, CEO
858/836-0161
mpurdy@worldtalkradio.com
Michael Purdy
_________________________
Investigacion y Conservacion de Mamiferos Marinos de Ensenada, A.C., to evaluate the environmental impact of fishing and boat traffic on whales and
dolphins and start an environmental education program.
Pro Esteros, Lagunas y Marismas de las Californias, A.C., to help protect the Mona Estuary at Bahia de los Angeles.
________________
Loreto Tourism Office:
Email: fomixlor@lapaz.cromwell.com.mx
________________________
Melissa Paxton,
Director of Environmental Affairs,
Baja Life Magazine
melpax@hotmail.com
Arturo Mart?nez Esquer
Deputy Director of Visitor Assistance
State Secretariat of Tourism of Baja California
(011 52 664) 973 0424 & (011 52 664) 973 0430
www.discoverbajacalifornia.com
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Baja Bernie
`Normal` Nomad Correspondent
Posts: 2962
Registered: 8-31-2003
Location: Sunset Beach
Member Is Offline
Mood: Just dancing through life
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Wilderone
Beautiful words by Douglas--- but he was speaking of America. What impact do you believe that a bunch of Gringos, who have NO standing in Mexico,
will have on the Mexican Politicians who pay little or no heed to their own citizens---See Matt's post on "Mexico's Shame" elsewhere.
Just got back from Cabo and they are now building on "Lands End."----Thousands will come to see the view of the sunrise on the Vermillion Sea and then
see it set on the Pacific. Fantastic! But at what cost?
[Edited on 5-17-2006 by Baja Bernie]
My smidgen of a claim to fame is that I have had so many really good friends. By Bernie Swaim December 2007
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MrBillM
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21656
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Out and About
Member Is Offline
Mood: It's a Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah Day
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Sorry, Wilderone
"But obviously you have mistaken me for someone who gives a Crap".
I'm just here for the duration. The Baja that I originally knew and loved started disappearing in the early 80s. It's all downhill from here.
I would be willing to bet big bucks, though, that all of your "Little Things" aren't going to make a bit of difference.
[Edited on 5-17-2006 by MrBillM]
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Slowmad
Nomad
Posts: 243
Registered: 3-24-2005
Location: Alta California
Member Is Offline
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Only here for the duration?
Someone start the timer.
Good things are happening.
Vast tracts of Baja are being preserved in land trusts through the actions of several of the orgs noted by Wilderone.
That means our kids and grandkids will be able to taste pristine Baja.
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MrBillM
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21656
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Out and About
Member Is Offline
Mood: It's a Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah Day
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Oh Good.
I was worried that there was a problem, but now that I know good things are indeed happening, I can relax and stop worrying.
That sure is a load off my Espalda. I was getting worn down.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The timer started on 21 Feb 1945 and it's pretty far wound down.
[Edited on 5-17-2006 by MrBillM]
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Slowmad
Nomad
Posts: 243
Registered: 3-24-2005
Location: Alta California
Member Is Offline
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No problem with sitting on the sidelines.
But scoffing at those who are inclined to do something positive...that offers a view normally reserved for the curved part of the porcelein.
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woody with a view
PITA Nomad
Posts: 15939
Registered: 11-8-2004
Location: Looking at the Coronado Islands
Member Is Offline
Mood: Everchangin'
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a response? to my email.
rec'd this week and the online translator only tells me it is a bunch of politico speak. basically telling me they have it under control and to
"respect" their decision:
Sr. Wood:
Recibimos su correo electr?nico y le informamos que, en el marco de nuestras leyes, las iniciativas de proyectos de obras o actividades son evaluadas
por esta autoridad en materia del impacto al ambiente. En tal sentido, en M?xico como en su pa?s respetamos a nuestros visitantes y de la misma forma
pedimos respeto a nuestros propios sistemas de decisi?n de lo que procede o de lo que no procede para un espacio determinado de nuestro territorio.
Tenga usted la seguridad que la ocupaci?n fundamental de esta autoridad se concentra en la previsi?n del desequilibrio ambiental que pudiera ocasionar
un proyecto determinado, siempre con un enfoque sustentable, en el ejercicio pleno de nuestra soberan?a y dentro del marco de nuestra normatividad.
Atentamente
translated version:
We receive its e-mail and we report him that, in the framework of our laws, the works projects initiatives or activities are evaluated for this
authority in matter of the impact al environment. In such sense, in Mexico as in its country we respect to ours visiting and of the same form we ask
respect to our own systems of decision of what proceeds or of what does not proceed for a specific space of our territory.
Have the security that the fundamental occupation of this authority concentrates on the forecast of the environmental imbalance that could cause a
same old specific project with a sustainable focus, in the full exercise of our sovereignty and inside the framework of our regulatory nature.
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64698
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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Ferna, Jesse, Shari, ... ? How about the real translation?
Thanks!!
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Bajalero
Nomad
Posts: 316
Registered: 11-24-2003
Location: todos santos/ rcho san diego
Member Is Offline
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Woody , thanks for posting that.
| Quote: | Originally posted by woody in ob
rec'd this week and the online translator only tells me it is a bunch of politico speak. basically telling me they have it under control and to
"respect" their decision:
Sr. Wood:
Recibimos su correo electr?nico y le informamos que, en el marco de nuestras leyes, las iniciativas de proyectos de obras o actividades son evaluadas
por esta autoridad en materia del impacto al ambiente. En tal sentido, en M?xico como en su pa?s respetamos a nuestros visitantes y de la misma forma
pedimos respeto a nuestros propios sistemas de decisi?n de lo que procede o de lo que no procede para un espacio determinado de nuestro territorio.
Tenga usted la seguridad que la ocupaci?n fundamental de esta autoridad se concentra en la previsi?n del desequilibrio ambiental que pudiera ocasionar
un proyecto determinado, siempre con un enfoque sustentable, en el ejercicio pleno de nuestra soberan?a y dentro del marco de nuestra normatividad.
Atentamente
translated version:
We receive its e-mail and we report him that, in the framework of our laws, the works projects initiatives or activities are evaluated for this
authority in matter of the impact al environment. In such sense, in Mexico as in its country we respect to ours visiting and of the same form we ask
respect to our own systems of decision of what proceeds or of what does not proceed for a specific space of our territory.
Have the security that the fundamental occupation of this authority concentrates on the forecast of the environmental imbalance that could cause a
same old specific project with a sustainable focus, in the full exercise of our sovereignty and inside the framework of our regulatory nature.
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The response basically says , somewhat politely , to butt out of their soveriegn business in their country/
Lero
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Bajalero
Nomad
Posts: 316
Registered: 11-24-2003
Location: todos santos/ rcho san diego
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Woody
Here's your oportunity to be political.
You attempt to pose one Mex. organization against another.
Send that letter to Profepa , cc'd to el Pesidente ,asking if that is any way for an official to respond to a person only concerned with the interest
of Mexico (baja) at heart .
Never know what you might start.
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PJC
Super Nomad
Posts: 1670
Registered: 3-28-2003
Location: EVERYWHERE
Member Is Offline
Mood: Right
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Eco-nuts buying land to preserve it? I am all for that! But please do it by raising all capital outside of government grants our litigious land
exchanges.
Past all that, and outside of all the ex-pats looking to preserve their little utopia, what do the citizens of Baja think about all the progress? My
guess is that they are enjoying a better and more prosperous way of life.
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Capt. George
Super Nomad
Posts: 2129
Registered: 8-21-2003
Member Is Offline
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If ya got the dough, ya gonna go. Money talks & BS walks.
Just too many people with too much money....Options to slow developement.
1. Plaque
2. Nuclear War
3. Accept the inevitable.
4. Lots of waterfront land in Africa
\"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men\" Plato
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SoCalAl
Nomad
Posts: 156
Registered: 6-8-2004
Location: Punta Banda, Ca
Member Is Offline
Mood: Hungry
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Just my thoughts on this, no offense to anyone. As a teenager, I started traveling into Baja. Particularly Ensenada and into La Bufadora. I recall
being offered acherage of land in trade for some of the old vehicles I drove down there. I had an old VW camper van and I was offered about 3 achers
of land about a 1/4 mile east of the where the toll road and highway 3 meet, on highway 3. I was offered a house on top of the hill overviewing the
ensenada bay for 10K in $100 dollar installments no interest and only $500 down back when there was like "one" house up there. There was some land
next to the estero as you are heading toward La Bufadora where the road bends to the left, all you needed to do there was get off the road and all
that flat land was offered just 6 to 7 years ago for $3000 US dollars a 1000m x 1000m or what they call un hectar. The reason for selling cheap
according to the owner was, that the water table was salt water and they could not farm the land. Now all these places, especially closer to town
from TJ to Maneadero is rediculuosly priced. $5000 would get you a decent and large lot 10 years ago, now you can't touch a 20m x 20m for less than
30k. That house on the hill is well worth over 200k and the large 1000m x 1000m lot looks like it will be devolped into some large getaway project.
Progress? Yes for all the investors or those who happend to keep their land. For the procratinators, "regret" maybe. I hear all sorts of great
storys from the old timers (with all due respect guys) about Cali in the 40's, 50's, 60's and even into the 70's about how great fishing was. They
considered Halibut and rock fish, junk fish. Now some guys spend thousands targeting those exact species. With so many people leaving the Mainland
for the Baja Peninsula, it is virtually imposible to see this land develop one way or another. The Americans will continue to vacation where ever
"THEY BUILD IT". This includes Mexican Americans who come home to roots. Regardless of how much many of us would like to preserve the natural beuty,
the bottom line is that California, especially Southern California isn't large enough to hold the migration of legal, illegal and the populace from
other US States into it. Single family homes in the 1/2 million dollar mark for the average worker is sickening. How many retirees can truly aford a
"mort"gage in California. Where is the next most logical place where they can find affordable housing and similar weather climates if it isn't the
extension of California. I am not sure cause I was not there but I am assuming that Baja today is similar to the California of the 60's and 70's.
Can the building seize or will the people stop coming. Real Eastate wise it's a gold mine. So long as people idealize money, they could care less
about a bunch of folks chasing fish and waves. They could care less of about old missions and desert back drops. Like someone mentioned earlier,
enjoy it while it is here for as long as that is.
I hope some day Mexico allows American Citizens to own land, cause it is only fair as America allows others to own American soil. For those who have
Mexican status on this board, whether we like it or not, it is probobly best that if you do not own a piece of Baja, you best get the ball rolling
because the time is coming where you will pay lots of money just to park your RV in an RV park. I can still remember just a few years back, tacos 3
for a dollar and now they are $1 a piece. I still see people trying to negciate 2 for 1 and the Taco vendors just turn them down. Those days are
gone, water under the bridge. It's living in Mexico with American pricing what can you do if the demand is there.
I don't know that a decade will change the whole thing but certainly as in California and especially once they figure out a way to bring large
quanties of fresh water into the area, this place is another Puerto Vallarta or Cancun, over priced and over crowded.
Ahh Baja.... Where you can hear yourself think & commingling with the locals will humble you.
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PJC
Super Nomad
Posts: 1670
Registered: 3-28-2003
Location: EVERYWHERE
Member Is Offline
Mood: Right
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| Quote: | Originally posted by wilderone
THIS IS EXACTLY THE ATTITUDE THAT PROMOTES, HASTENS, EXACERBATES AND ENCOURAGES THE KILLING OF BAJA.
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What you see as a problem many in Baja (citizens especially) see as progress and opportunity.
Do not forget that you are a guest.
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Roberto
Banned
Posts: 2162
Registered: 9-5-2003
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajalero
The response basically says , somewhat politely , to butt out of their soveriegn business in their country/
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Yes, that is the jist of it. It does include reassurances that all decisions are made with the utmost respect of the environment and the impact of any
project on it.
==========================================
Sr. Wood:
We received your letter and would like to inform you that, in accordance with our laws, all potential projects are evaluated by this office according
to their potential impact on the environment. Please also keep in mind that, in Mexico as in your own country, we respect our visitors and in return
expect the same from them when it comes to deciding what should/should not be implemented within our sovereign territory.
Please rest assured that the principal responsility of this office is focused on the determination of any potential envrironmental imbalance that a
project may cause, and to ensure that a sustainable balance with nature is maintaned, all within the full sovereignty and context of our laws.
Sincerely yours,
....
==========================
Oso, Braulio, Lencho - is that pretty much it?
[Edited on 6-15-2006 by Roberto]
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Bob H
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5867
Registered: 8-19-2003
Location: San Diego
Member Is Offline
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I think everyone should just enjoy Baja as it is, while they can. Everthing changes everywhere. Many of us think that this "progress?" is the
"Killing of Baja" but what do you belive the people that are making the money on this progress think? Just the opposite of killing.... or you might
think of it as if they are "making a killing" on the growth. Think of the town you grew up in and what it is like today. I grew up in Miami in the
50's and 60's, went back a couple of years ago and didn't recognize 90% of the city or neighborhood I grew up in.
Too many whiners.... go and enjoy. Then stop going to Baja when you don't like it any more.
Bob H
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Sharksbaja
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5814
Registered: 9-7-2004
Location: Newport, Mulege B.C.S.
Member Is Offline
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That's true Bob
You obviously didn't care much for the changes Miami made. Then of course we don't care as much when a megapolis is formed from the suburbs joining
hands.
Baja on the other hand will make odd transitions just because of the huge differences in cultural atmosphere. Sticking a Wal-Mart in San Felipe 10
yrs ago would seem unfathomable. Today it would hardly shock most. But put one in Loreto today and folks might have a different spin. Ok, wait five
more years.  
DON\'T SQUINT! Give yer eyes a break!
Try holding down [control] key and toggle the [+ and -] keys
Viva Mulege!
Nomads\' Sunsets
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