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Paula
Super Nomad
Posts: 2219
Registered: 1-5-2006
Location: Loreto
Member Is Offline
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(From Don using Paula's account)
One of the "benefits" of the fideocomiso system is the added income for the banks. $400 a year, per property, forever.
They would lobby against outright foreign ownership, and my guess is they have more clout with the legislature than we do.
The country's constitution bans coastal ownership, and I wonder if or when someone is going to challenge the current legislation as being a blatant
attempt to circumvent the constitution. Looks that way to me. I would think that some laws can be enacted by simple legislation, but others should
require amending the constitution.
Now maybe I have this all wrong and the fideo rules were included in a constitutional amendment and I read an older version of the constitution.
In the meantime, I'll enjoy what I have and hope it lasts as long as I do.
Don Alley
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bajalou
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4459
Registered: 3-11-2004
Location: South of the broder
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In looking around the internet, it appears that Florida residents lose more property to the governments each year via Eminent Domain procedures than
property lost here in Baja.
And if you really believe you might loose your property in Mexico, why did you put money in it?
No Bad Days
\"Never argue with an idiot. People watching may not be able to tell the difference\"
\"The trouble with doing nothing is - how do I know when I\'m done?\"
Nomad Baja Interactive map
And in the San Felipe area - check out Valle Chico area |
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Bruce R Leech
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6796
Registered: 9-20-2004
Location: Ensenada formerly Mulege
Member Is Offline
Mood: A lot cooler than Mulege
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| Quote: | Originally posted by losfrailes
| Quote: | Originally posted by Bruce R Leech
if you want a guarantee then you are better off in Florida. I love the way Mexico is . I'm here for the adventure and uncertainty that it offers. If I
could not stand the land ownership laws here I would buy in Florida where you have the best Governor and president in the world. |
Thats an easy statement to make. Adventure and uncertainty that life here offers. Especially in regards to land ownership.
Let me see now, you are married to a Mexican national, right? And the property you are selling or have already sold is in your name right, or could
it be in your wifes name and therefore not subject to ownership problems faced by the other foreigners living here. |
I just love it when some one like you comes on here and acts like they know every thing about my life when you have never met me and your statements
above show just how willing you are to talk about something that you know nothing about take a guess at how many of your statements about me are wrong
the deferences between you and I are that I will never comment on your personal life or investments. even if I know what I'm talking about .
land ownership in Mexico is not a sure thing for Mexicans or Foreigners.
Bruce R Leech
Ensenada
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pacificobob
Super Nomad
Posts: 2308
Registered: 4-23-2006
Member Is Offline
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i agree with
mrbill!.....ive never been to any country where that would work.
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Oso
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2637
Registered: 8-29-2003
Location: on da border
Member Is Offline
Mood: wait and see
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| Quote: | Originally posted by MrBillM
That describes anyone who seriously thinks that there would be a snowball's chance in Hades of foreign residents successfully petitioning the Mexican
Government to change the property ownership rules. |
Even a busted clock is right twice a day!
Not only would such action be "sumamente inutil", it is, as just pointed out, illegal. Under Mexican law, foreigners may not engage in politics,
period. Now there was a successful action taken by foreign residents to defy the Mexican government about a century and a half ago... It's called
Texas. From what I've seen of it, I think I'd prefer it was still Mexico.
But, "cada cabeza, un mundo aparte". If enough gringo residents want to band together in a new insurgency, have at it. But... Include me out.
[Edited on 7-9-2006 by Oso]
All my childhood I wanted to be older. Now I\'m older and this chitn sucks.
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Packoderm
Super Nomad
Posts: 2116
Registered: 11-7-2002
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About Texas, "From what I've seen of it, I think I'd prefer it was still Mexico."
Are you meaning to say that you would rather be a natural born citizen of Mexico living in Mexican Texas than a U.S. citizen living in American Texas?
According to World Bank's website, approx. 50% of Mexico's people are living in poverty compared to the U.S.' 12.7% and Texas' 15.6%.
http://209.198.129.135/products/fastfacts/poverty.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_the_United_States
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Bruce R Leech
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6796
Registered: 9-20-2004
Location: Ensenada formerly Mulege
Member Is Offline
Mood: A lot cooler than Mulege
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Packoderm
About Texas, "From what I've seen of it, I think I'd prefer it was still Mexico."
Are you meaning to say that you would rather be a natural born citizen of Mexico living in Mexican Texas than a U.S. citizen living in American Texas?
According to World Bank's website, approx. 50% of Mexico's people are living in poverty compared to the U.S.' 12.7% and Texas' 15.6%.
http://209.198.129.135/products/fastfacts/poverty.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_the_United_States |
I think you can tell by where I live what I think
Bruce R Leech
Ensenada
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Oso
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2637
Registered: 8-29-2003
Location: on da border
Member Is Offline
Mood: wait and see
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Packoderm
About Texas, "From what I've seen of it, I think I'd prefer it was still Mexico."
Are you meaning to say that you would rather be a natural born citizen of Mexico living in Mexican Texas than a U.S. citizen living in American Texas?
According to World Bank's website, approx. 50% of Mexico's people are living in poverty compared to the U.S.' 12.7% and Texas' 15.6%.
http://209.198.129.135/products/fastfacts/poverty.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_the_United_States |
No.
I don't want to live in Texas, period. But if it was still Mexico, then I wouldn't have to deal with "Texans".
(I'm smilin' as I say that, pardner.)
"If I owned Hell and Texas, I'd rent out Texas and live in Hell."
-Gen. W.T. Sherman
All my childhood I wanted to be older. Now I\'m older and this chitn sucks.
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MrBillM
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21656
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Out and About
Member Is Offline
Mood: It's a Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah Day
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Baja Oklahoma.
The best thing that ever happened to the Tejanos in Texas was the war for independence from Mexico.
As far as obeying Mexican law, the Texans were petitioning for their rights as GUARANTEED by the Mexican Constitution which General Santa Anna
usurped.
I have had more than one discussion in which I have chided Mexican friends who bring up the subject of the Alamo and the war. I've said I find it
comical that the Mexicans find themselves on the side of a ruthless and brutal dictator who did away with their Constitutional liberties and summarily
imprisoned or killed anyone who took umbrage.
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Oso
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2637
Registered: 8-29-2003
Location: on da border
Member Is Offline
Mood: wait and see
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OK, I'll amend that and substitute "government" for "law".
All my childhood I wanted to be older. Now I\'m older and this chitn sucks.
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JESSE
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3370
Registered: 11-5-2002
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I think its a bad idea, do you guys really want this debate to go on national news and have Televisa and Azteca send their teams of reporters to show
the entire nation how "Americans are buying up Mexico"? I can already see the comparisons to Texas.
Mexico is NOT prepared for that, you can either accept it, or decide not to invest. And i do agree with DanO, what ever investment is flowing into
Baja is doing little to help the locals. Thats why i keep saying that if things stay the same, all you will end up with is a minority of rich people
living in luxury areas, and a majority of poor people living in the hills, just like it has happened in cabo.
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Capt. George
Super Nomad
Posts: 2129
Registered: 8-21-2003
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there is no doubt that my "investments" in Punta Abreojos were shared by many.
A few got more but there was additional income in a lot of pockets. From now on, only the few dollars I spend vacationing there will be added to
their economy.
BTW: I've sold my holdings in Mexico and will not invest another dime until offered the same property holding rights Mexicanos have in the United
States.
Comparison to Texas? Get enough money and power brokers from the states in Baja....and the Mexican people will be making comparisons here. The
situation is ethically wrong, you know it, I know it and the Mexican property owners/sellers know it.
War is war, they lost, get over it, they're lucky we didn't take it all. Bad enough in the states I had to listen to "the South will rise again"! How
about the billions of dollars earned in the states, legal and illegal that flows back home to Madre??? Huge amounts of money infused into Mexicos
economy, much of it made in Texas.
If Texas were not in the states, it would be just that many more poverty stricken Mexicans.
I still love Baja and will vacation there till I die or too ill to travel. My affection for the Mexican people is deep, but as Buford Pusser would say
"What's right is right"!!!
As for the poor Mexicans living in the hills outside Cabo, let their government raise their minimum wage above five dollars a day. Don't blame the
rich Americanos for the disgrace of the Mexican political system. Why, it's even worse then the U.S. of A.
\"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men\" Plato
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JESSE
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3370
Registered: 11-5-2002
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I am not blaming anyone specifically, i am merely saying that wether foreigners come or go, to the locals in general, it means very little. Basically
you get a bunch of money coming in from the USA, a bunch of chilangos and foreigners running here to get most of the pie, and the locals are pretty
much in the same boat, except theres more people, more pollution, more traffick, and more drugs.
I understand your point of view, if i was you i would demand the same, but the reality is that except for a small minority of mostly chilangos,
foreigners, and a few locals, most Baja Californians don't have any reason to sympathize with you, and their political representatives know that, so
they won't change any laws anytime soon.
Thats why i keep insisting that all the millions coming in are useless unless the goverment AND the investors finds a way for the money to trickle
down to the regular juan and mary on the street.
[Edited on 7-13-2006 by JESSE]
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Capt. George
Super Nomad
Posts: 2129
Registered: 8-21-2003
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Jesse
the locals "should" be sympathizing more with the gringos that are buying land and bringing jobs into their Pueblos.....who else is going to buy it?
Another Mexicano? Not in my experience. I sold my lot in PA to a Mexicano/US Citizen and was very happy about that. Rare to be sure.
It is not the responsibility of the "investor" to find a way for their hard earned dollars (at least in my case) to trickle down. It is the fault of
the gov't, which the people elect.
As far as more people, pollution, traffic etc., that's a worldwide problem called over population. Again magnified in Mexico by an undereducated and
poor population...
Most of the problems facing Mexico and it's citizens are from within, stop blaming outside influences. It's a cop out. I worked in all the major
ghettos in NYC and became so tired of the plight of the people being blamed on everything and everyone other then themselves.
Believe it or not, this is stated witth a great deal of love and caring for the Mexicanos who have shared their lives with me. But I refuse to be
painted the, even a part, of Mexicos internal problems.
Capt George aka el Vikingo de Punta Abreojos
\"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men\" Plato
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Capt. George
Super Nomad
Posts: 2129
Registered: 8-21-2003
Member Is Offline
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"painted the villain,"
\"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men\" Plato
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JESSE
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3370
Registered: 11-5-2002
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Capt. George
Jesse
the locals "should" be sympathizing more with the gringos that are buying land and bringing jobs into their Pueblos.....who else is going to buy it?
Another Mexicano? Not in my experience. I sold my lot in PA to a Mexicano/US Citizen and was very happy about that. Rare to be sure.
It is not the responsibility of the "investor" to find a way for their hard earned dollars (at least in my case) to trickle down. It is the fault of
the gov't, which the people elect.
As far as more people, pollution, traffic etc., that's a worldwide problem called over population. Again magnified in Mexico by an undereducated and
poor population...
Most of the problems facing Mexico and it's citizens are from within, stop blaming outside influences. It's a cop out. I worked in all the major
ghettos in NYC and became so tired of the plight of the people being blamed on everything and everyone other then themselves.
Believe it or not, this is stated witth a great deal of love and caring for the Mexicanos who have shared their lives with me. But I refuse to be
painted the, even a part, of Mexicos internal problems.
Capt George aka el Vikingo de Punta Abreojos |
I disagree George, how many locals own beach front property? how much of that property has any tourism value? and i think your misunderstanding me, i
am not blaming American investors for the troubles here, off course i blame the goverment for the mess, but in reality, 90% of all locals do not
benefit and thus, dont have any incentives to sympatize with anybody.
Also, you seem to think that locals "need" someone to buy their land, when in reality they do not, a lot of locals are getting pennies on the dollar
for their properties, and sadly, they are to ignorant to understand that their properties are worth far more than what they are getting for.
My view is that if the quality of life hasnt really improved much for locals, why do they need us? and i count myself because i am from Tijuana. We
come in, buy their lands, start businesses, get in the action, and leave them out, a lot of times because its their own fault i have to admit it, but
getting back to my point. if you and me, and all the Mexicans from the mainland left, their lives wouldnt be much changed, yes all the imigrants would
be out of work and get back to where ever they came from (including me), but the locals would still live from fishing and agriculture, and they
wouldnt have to deal with the crowds, the 15usd sandwiches at Todos Santos, and having to put up with someone building a 500,000 thousand dollar home
right next to your shack so you can truly see just how poor you really are.
They don't need us at all George, we need them, or better yet, their properties.
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Capt. George
Super Nomad
Posts: 2129
Registered: 8-21-2003
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need is a strong word. I do not need their properties...
I learned rather quickly in Punta Abreojos about needs and wants....needs are very few indeed, wants are as great as we make them...Choyeros are a
special breed and I have learned a great deal from them.
As the fishing in these towns becomes less and less due to growth in population (30 mile trips offshore instead of 5), it becomes becessary for
families to part. With the influx of tourism (and the purchase of lands) comes, at least, some jobs that allow families to remain together. Is that
bad?
I will continue to vacation in Punta Abreojos for as long as I am able. adios
soon, home to, ahhhhhh, Baja!
\"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men\" Plato
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djh
Senior Nomad
Posts: 936
Registered: 1-2-2005
Location: Earth mostly. Loreto, N. ID, Big Island
Member Is Offline
Mood: Mellow fellow, plays a yellow cello...
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Merit in ideas
George's point is legit to me.
While I enjoy the adventure and learning new ways, I don't enjoy red tape, run around, and beurocracy (sp?), anywhere...
George and I have discussed this exact thing in person... and in relation to our biz. dealings with each other.
George's point is about simply bringing Mexico - (Baja specifically, but by necessity, likely all of Mexico, I suppose) - onto a level playing field
with almost all other nations....
Ya gotta admit the current system is prety crappy - and DESIGNED to COST you and PROFIT SOMEone.... (I would love to have witnessed the writing of
the law ! ! - and who was involved in it...)
What was that quote.... "Never doubt that a few determined individuals can change . . . . That is the only way that change ocurs.... or something
like that.... I'm sure one of you have access to that quote.
Also, I encourage you all.... as I have before... to consider ideas and their merits critically - without being personally critical or disrespectful
to your fellow Nomads.
Who here would not welcome fee-simple ownership of your property ? ? ?
djh
Its all just stuff and some numbers.
A day spent sailing isn\'t deducted from one\'s life.
Peace, Love, and Music
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Packoderm
Super Nomad
Posts: 2116
Registered: 11-7-2002
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Maybe the Mexican government needs to gather up a bunch of gringos from the U.S., have them hold an election, and decide whether or not that part of
the Mexican Constitution needs to be changed.
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MrBillM
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21656
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Out and About
Member Is Offline
Mood: It's a Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah Day
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Wishin' and Hopin'
Who here would not welcome fee-simple ownership of your property ? ? ?
djh
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Personally, I would welcome a host of things that are even less likely to occur than Kapitan Gorge's land reforms.
The VALUE of ANY idea has to be viewed within the context of the likelihood of obtaining it. We can all sit around and say that
World Peace, Universal love and respect among all mankind, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH are good ideas. We can sit around holding hands and singing "Imagine" by
John Lennon, hoping for all of those "wonderful" IDEAS to come true, even though it is pure fantasy.
The current system is working pretty well from the vantage point of the Mexican Government. No one here can say any longer that BIG Foreign
investment is being discouraged so WHY would the Mexicans consider changing ?
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