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roundtuit
Senior Nomad
Posts: 607
Registered: 12-21-2004
Member Is Offline
Mood: Wife's Job
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A little off the subject, But would you hire an unlicence work man (gringo) to do work on you house without a permit knowing you are breaking the
law.and have no recourse to protect youself from shottie workmenship
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: optimistic
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rounduit-------never---not a chanch----
---that would really be foolish, IMO.
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Dave
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6005
Registered: 11-5-2002
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Just for clarification:
Why do Mexicans refer to this as the "wall of shame"? Do they believe that they have the divine right to travel, live and/or work anywhere, without
restriction?
If so, why don't they reciprocate?
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Don Alley
Super Nomad
Posts: 1997
Registered: 12-4-2003
Location: Loreto
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
----but I do not have a clue what you are talking about. |
First, I referenced a common saying comparing the making of laws to the making of sausage.
Second, you posted a comment that used "illegal" or "illegaly" six times, several times in all caps. Just to make myself more clear, I do not share
your concern with, or respect for, the law.
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Bajaboy
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4375
Registered: 10-9-2003
Location: Bahia Asuncion, BCS, Mexico
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by roundtuit
Need some kind of a work program, as of now we have grapes to pick in northern Ca and not enough labor. Just think of all the yuppies that may not
have their fine merlots this winter. will they work the fields ????? |
Maybe we can't get "Americans" to pick the grapes because market rates are not being paid?! It's funny how politicians will argue for free markets
until it comes to labor...then it's all about how we need cheap labor. If the market dictated wages we might have to spend a bit more on our wine but
then again those picking the grapes might be able to afford a bottle.
Zac
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roundtuit
Senior Nomad
Posts: 607
Registered: 12-21-2004
Member Is Offline
Mood: Wife's Job
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BBSS
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anmdivers
Junior Nomad
Posts: 45
Registered: 10-8-2006
Location: The Bay Islands
Member Is Offline
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I dont & never have understood why all Mexicans can not go to the US legally. All my family that lived in Mexico has done it legally & the
ones that still live in Mexico have pass ports to go to the US.
And no we dont come from Money
[Edited on 10-13-2006 by anmdivers]
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: optimistic
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Don Alley------
------your feelings about the law notwithstanding, without the "rule of Law" we have NOTHING but chaos-----that is the mainstay of any civilized
society.
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JESSE
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3370
Registered: 11-5-2002
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You all know my view, i think the US should build a wall the entire lenght of the US border, and i think it would be the best thing to happen to
Mexico in a long time. Mexico would eventually fix its internal problems and prosper. And i would really love to see what happens after the US
realizes theres not a lot of Mexicans willing to go up north anymore.
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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What the United States needs is a self- cleaning toilet.
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JESSE
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3370
Registered: 11-5-2002
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Dave
Just for clarification:
Why do Mexicans refer to this as the "wall of shame"? Do they believe that they have the divine right to travel, live and/or work anywhere, without
restriction?
If so, why don't they reciprocate? |
Mexicans are fed what Televisa and Vicente Fox wants, i cannot understand why people are not saying "congress of shame" or "president of shame" or
"ruling class shame".
If you don't want your neighboor building walls, stop crossing over to his side.
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Baja Bernie
`Normal` Nomad Correspondent
Posts: 2962
Registered: 8-31-2003
Location: Sunset Beach
Member Is Offline
Mood: Just dancing through life
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I wonder
Do you think if the wages were the same on both sides of the border everything would level out?
Bet the gringo's in Baja who are hiring a Mexican to work for them would not like this idea at all.
Bet there would still be folks crossing north at border because their is not enough work for them at home.
Bet a bunch of Gringos would head to Mexico to work--if only it were not against the law.
Bet no one has the answer to this one. At least not one that makes any sense.
My smidgen of a claim to fame is that I have had so many really good friends. By Bernie Swaim December 2007
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64587
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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Good posts above... My observations as one who has hired Mexicans here in California.
1) Mexico does not provide a system which keeps its people happily employed at home. The Mexicans who are here (in California) to earn an income would
rather be back in their homeland, close to families. Getting the people of Mexico to ignore the shortcomings of their own corrupt government and blame
America is something that many third world countries do.
Mexicans that do live here in America now, tell me how pleasant it is that things actually 'work' in America and we have the freedom to complain and
newspapers print whatever they want about politicians. I am told that in Mexico if you complain too much, you disappear in the night! Why there isn't
more vocal outrage when nothing is done that should be.
2) Mexicans here are not 'slaves', give me a brake! They risk their lives to get here... they break the law to get here... They make in one HOUR here
what they make in one DAY in Mexico (if they get a job)! They want to be here... Americans don't go hunting for them in Mexico, bring them far from
home and work them to death without pay... THAT is slavery. Every morning I see 50-100 latino men standing on corners seeking a job, any kind of
job... $10+ an hour with lunch included is what they work for, happily.
3) Any country has a right to protect itself... the wall is to keep out those who are not supposed to be here. Go through the normal procedures, like
everyone else does to enter the United States if you want to get here so bad. We must be doing something right in the U.S. to have to build walls to
keep people OUT!
4) Mexicans should be able to come to the United States to live and work under the SAME rules that Mexico applies to Americans who want to live and
work in Mexico... You know, get an FM-3, work permit (if you can show that you won't take a job away that a local can do), pay taxes...
If economic freedom is allowed to flurish (change the stupid bank lending rules) and government corruption is halted, then Mexico will have an
exploding economy and plenty of good paying jobs there.
It works that way here, and it can there as well... VIVA MEXICO!
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MrBillM
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21656
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Out and About
Member Is Offline
Mood: It's a Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah Day
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More Liberal Effluent
Yada, Yada, Yada. We've heard the whining again and again from the Left that this or that won't work, can't work, is doomed to failure and on and on
and on.
IF all of the things that the Libs cried wouldn't work actually had not worked, we'd be living in a world we wouldn't recognize. In reality, it's
just more excrement spewed to make the goals seem unattainable.
The walls HAVE worked despite any garbage about 11 foot ladders and such. WHERE we have improved the fencing and enforcement, the
numbers crossing went way down, forcing the trade onto more unforgiving terrain. As we force that trade onto the MOST unforgiving
terrain, the situation will become more manageable, either from natural attrition, a reassessment by potential crossers and/or easier apprehension.
The clearly large majority of Voting Americans who are Pro-Security and favor the increased Border Enforcement makes it a FACT that
the Wall will go forward so I suppose that we'll see if the Libs are correct for once or once more "Crying Wolf". Time will tell.
Besides their natural Lefward political spin, there is no doubt that a high percentage frame this issue in terms of their worries that there will be
an Anti-American Backlash affecting them as residents. I, too, worry about that, but I view the Illegal Alien issue potentially too
damaging to the U.S. economy to ignore.
Speaking of Liberal Thoughts, the a.m. news is that "Air Amerika", the foremost distributor of Liberal views has filed for Bankruptcy, a fitting end
for Bankrupt Liberal ideas.
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pargo
Nomad
Posts: 162
Registered: 9-14-2006
Location: Burbank Ca.
Member Is Offline
Mood: Baja Nomas
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Mexicanos-We love'em, we hate'em, we hire 'em, we dont need 'em. I don't get it at all. In my opinion? Mexicans are, for the most part, the most
warm, kindest, hardworking people you'll ever meet. I say fix it so they can come to our country and keep the the wheels turning in our economy. No
one can convince me that we'd be better off without them. Make legalization doable for them and streamline the process. Come to think of it, why are
we (Americans/US citizens) not required to wait 2 or more hours in line at the border to enter our beloved Baja/Mexico? Come on folks lets face it..we
love Mexico and it's people. The only difference between an "illegal" and all those nice mexicanos that we've all met over the years is that the
"illegal" guy jumped a fense out of shear desperation because he cannot find the financial wherewithall to make it and provide for his family in his
own country. That's only human nature as far as i'm concerned. The human creature will do what it takes to survive. If we were on the other side if
the coin, I would jump a fense in a heartbeat ifI knew there were greener pastures on the other side....Es todo, ya se me hiso chicharron la
lengua!
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pargo
Nomad
Posts: 162
Registered: 9-14-2006
Location: Burbank Ca.
Member Is Offline
Mood: Baja Nomas
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
Good posts above... My observations as one who has hired Mexicans here in California.
1) Mexico does not provide a system which keeps its people happily employed at home. The Mexicans who are here (in California) to earn an income would
rather be back in their homeland, close to families. Getting the people of Mexico to ignore the shortcomings of their own corrupt government and blame
America is something that many third world countries do.
Mexicans that do live here in America now, tell me how pleasant it is that things actually 'work' in America and we have the freedom to complain and
newspapers print whatever they want about politicians. I am told that in Mexico if you complain too much, you disappear in the night! Why there isn't
more vocal outrage when nothing is done that should be.
2) Mexicans here are not 'slaves', give me a brake! They risk their lives to get here... they break the law to get here... They make in one HOUR here
what they make in one DAY in Mexico (if they get a job)! They want to be here... Americans don't go hunting for them in Mexico, bring them far from
home and work them to death without pay... THAT is slavery. Every morning I see 50-100 latino men standing on corners seeking a job, any kind of
job... $10+ an hour with lunch included is what they work for, happily.
3) Any country has a right to protect itself... the wall is to keep out those who are not supposed to be here. Go through the normal procedures, like
everyone else does to enter the United States if you want to get here so bad. We must be doing something right in the U.S. to have to build walls to
keep people OUT!
4) Mexicans should be able to come to the United States to live and work under the SAME rules that Mexico applies to Americans who want to live and
work in Mexico... You know, get an FM-3, work permit (if you can show that you won't take a job away that a local can do), pay taxes...
If economic freedom is allowed to flurish (change the stupid bank lending rules) and government corruption is halted, then Mexico will have an
exploding economy and plenty of good paying jobs there.
It works that way here, and it can there as well... VIVA MEXICO! |
And by the way folks...level headed and eloquent as always, Dave is right on the button. Hats off to you Dave..eres chingon!
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MrBillM
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21656
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Out and About
Member Is Offline
Mood: It's a Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah Day
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OH, The Humanity !
Disregarding the Security issues, the most important consideration is the economic effect. Despite our enforcement procedures up until now, we have
an estimated 11-13 Million Illegal Aliens in the U.S. IF there were no enforcement, that number would have Quadrupled or worse.
There is NO WAY that we could maintain a satisfactory quality of life for the middle-class American with that sort of influx.
Once we get control of the bleeding I, like most Americans, am in favor of a Legal Immigration Plan which addresses the employment needs of the U.S.
[Edited on 10-13-2006 by MrBillM]
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vgabndo
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3461
Registered: 12-8-2003
Location: Mt. Shasta, CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Checking-off my bucket list.
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Mr. Bill is absolutely correct about walls working. The most famous one, the Berlin Wall worked very well. Very few were able to cross alive.
However, it was Bill's sidekick, "Old Wobble Head" who said: "Mr. Gorbechev, TEAR DOWN THIS WALL." Why would Reagan say that if "conservatives"
thought that impenetratable walls made good neighbors?
I would be interested to know WHO is hiring undocumented aliens. It seems to me to be big corporate agriculture, big non-union meat packers, and
people who can afford to hire maids, nannys and gardeners who don't file I-9's. The general political leanings of these folks are pretty well
understood. Canada's system seems to work pretty well without a wall.
Undoubtedly, there are people who cannot afford to give the anchor of sanity even the slightest tug. Sam Harris
"The situation is far too dire for pessimism."
Bill Kauth
Carl Sagan said, "We are a way for the cosmos to know itself."
PEACE, LOVE AND FISH TACOS
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Cincodemayo
Senior Nomad
Posts: 725
Registered: 3-7-2005
Location: Pacific NW
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by MrBillM
Once we get control of the bleeding I, like most Americans, am in favor of a Legal Immigration Plan which addresses the employment needs of the U.S.
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Bill....that's a dead on bullseye. Well put.
What does a medic do first...stop the bleeding before tending to other first aid. Same with our illegal dilema.
Don\'t get mad...
Get EVEN.
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JESSE
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3370
Registered: 11-5-2002
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by MrBillM
There is NO WAY that we could maintain a satisfactory quality of life for the middle-class American with that sort of influx.
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The opposite is true, the US needs about 2.5 million immigrants a year in order to keep up with a rapidly aging population and declining birthrates.
Without immigrants it would be imposible to stay as the top economic and military power in the next 50 years.
Japan is the perfect example, virtually no immigrants, rapidly aging population, declining birth rates, wich equals a declining population that will
eventually put pressure on the pension system. Wich will eventually result on a shrink of their GDP by as much as 30% will China roars by.
Its not as simple as a lot of people think.
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