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Ski Baja
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Registered: 8-19-2003
Location: Rosarito Beach
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Chicanos
Since I'm already in trouble hahahaha, if it's anything like Pico Rivera used to be, they would want to relocate to whichever areas have the most
reds. 
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Dave
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You realize of course that GW's ranch would be included in the new country. As a legal resident, would he run for president?
This gives new meaning to the slogan:
Texas, it's a whole nuther country.
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Anonymous
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This thread is not political?
OK
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Bookerman
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I am not against having this thread moved to off topic or political. I really want to know where some people stand regarding the U.S. border.
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Skeet/Loreto
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Bookerman: I do not know if there willever be a answer to your question. I do know the following
There are jobs that Americans will not do such as icking Cotton,Milking
Cows,flipping hamburgers etc.
I know that if legals and illegals were stopped from their work that we would not be able to Eat!
Aguest worker program will work for a portion of the workers but to do that you would overload the otherside of the Border.that would cause many more
problems.
We can put the soldiers on the Border but would take maybe 100,000 which are needed to fight Terrorism all over the Middle East.
Mexico is not in the position to do anything unless they start development of their Resourses
Canada could sell water to Mexico via the Colo/ River The area south of the Border could be made into a huge Farm area where Mexicanos could work in
Mexico there by eleminating the Central Valley of Calif.
What is your Non Political answer. Skeet/Loreto
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Bookerman
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Skeet, my question is a bit political but important. I am trying to find out if some posters here advocate taking land away from the U.S and Mexico
and start a new nation some call Aztlan. Look at this map and you'll know what I mean.
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academicanarchist
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Republica del Norte
Aztlan is the mythic home of the Mexica-Aztec, who migrated the Valley of Mexico and established Tenochtitlan. The idea of Aztlan has circulated for
decades, and this idea of the Republica del Norte is a variation on the common Aztlan theme.
The flaw in the scheme, other than the fact that the United States stole Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, and California from Mexico fair and square, is
that the Hispanics in what today is the American Southwest who have a legitimate claim to these lands would be the Mexican inhabitants of the region
prior to acquisition by the United States. The vast majority of people of Mexican ancestry who live in the American Southwest came in the late 19th
and particularly the first three decades of the 20th century.
As originally floated, the idea of Aztlan was to recoup for the descendents of the original Mexican settlers the territories taken by the United
States. But, of course, there were people living in the region when the Spanish colonized, who have an even stronger claim.
Another argument could be used, however. The culture of northern Mexico is distinct from that of central Mexico. Two indications are the preference
for flour as versus corn tortillas in the north, and the way that towns look. You also have variations in dress, music, etc. However, this is not the
argument presented by Chicano activists in their Aztlan plan.
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academicanarchist
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Aztlan
Truxillo's claim that Aztlan is an inevitabilty is unsustainable.
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Anonymous
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And JESSE, the leftist political opportunist continues to dodge the Aztlan question.
| Quote: | Originally posted by Bookerman
Skeet, my question is a bit political but important. I am trying to find out if some posters here advocate taking land away from the U.S and Mexico
and start a new nation some call Aztlan. Look at this map and you'll know what I mean. |
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Juan
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Location: Olympic Peninsula and Baja Sur
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Mood: Life is good.
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anonymous
I can't speak for Jesse but personally, I don't respond to trolls or people without a name.
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Skeet/Loreto
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Cruz Bustomonte got him self in trouble with his own people for being an active member in a Club and movement at my old School Fresno State College.It
is still active at that school and if my memory is correct it was started by some former Members of the "Brown Berets" of the Cesar Chaves Days.
There is no need to form the mythlic State as the Mexicanos are allready taKING OVER AND THEY HAPPEN TO LIKE THE WAY THINGS ARE GOING.
tHE RABBLE ROUSERS WILL NOT BE ABLE TO START A MINOR rEVOLUTION OVER THIS AS MOST PEOPLE BELIEVE IT IS CONNECTED TO CLOSLY TO THE PRESENT mEXICAN
gOVT.
It is more of the Leftist Intellegente trying to stir up trouble like they have in Mexico and El Salvadora.
The many Mexicano's that I have been involved know how bad life was and How good life is in the US.They Appreciate the fact that they can Work and
rasie a family with out starving to death.
I hope this does not get political as Anon Give us your name if you want me to post again. Skeet/Loreto
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Anonymous
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Hey, where do I sign up for this new country???
I'm all over it as long as they make Tombstone, AZ the capital city!!!
Barry
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Dave
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Hey AA, what about article VIII of the Hidalgo treaty.
In the said territories, property of every kind, now belonging to Mexicans not established there, shall be inviolably respected. The present owners,
the heirs of these, and all Mexicans who may hereafter acquire said property by contract, shall enjoy with respect to it guarantees equally ample as
if the same belonged to citizens of the United States.
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JESSE
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| Quote: | Originally posted by capn.sharky
Jesse--I don't know who you are are what you are up to, but that is the type of irresponsible talk that neither the U.S. or Mexico can handle right
now. We have just gone to the second highest level of home defense. Your country is somewhat dependent on our support and tourism. I can only hope
that someone in your government is monitoring this website and homes in on you. Most of us like our neighbors to the south and would not like to see
any bad feeling develope because of stuff like this. Please think before you post. |
This story was on the national news Televisa, and its a REALITY, if you dont like it, send your complaint to the Mexican armed forces and Televisa.
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JESSE
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Dave
All this sounds like the makings of a good movie. They could shoot it right here at Fox.
Just to be safe I am going to change my gringo sounding last name and start selling tacos. No more pastrami.
Viva Zappa! |
Your already David from Nueva York Deli to me amigo
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JESSE
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bookerman
Jesse and Juan, could you please honestly answer this question: Are you or are you not advocates of the Aztlan agenda? |
No way, Aztlan is the DREAM of a bunch of Mexican-American nobodies that dont have anything better to do than to dream of this
joke. In reality, 99% of Mexicans dont care about that Aztlan crap, and are only concerned about keeping our own boat afloat, and i am one who doesnt
pay attention to this wet dream.
I believe in closing the borders, putting pressure on the Mex goverment to do its job, and making a better life for us here, if the Chileans could do
it, so can we.
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Bookerman
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Thank you very much for your reply Jesse. I don't see any reason to bring up the Aztlan thing again. However, Dave might want to navigate the Aztlan
site for awhile and see their feelings on Judaism. I'm not Jewish, but even I felt bad about what they are saying there. All religions should be
respected, I think. And what does the Palestinian issue have to do with Aztlanists? I?m not trying to perpetuate any discussion on this; it?s just
that I don?t quite get the Aztlan/ Jewish thing. Take it easy. Book
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Nikon
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I traveled to Chile to work in 1965, and had my experience in Panama with Panamanians and how they viewed their government, as a point of contrast.
Chileans were unbelievably politically aware, even the college age girls with whom I became familiar. They loved to talk politics, and years later
when the students' protests against Pinochet's regime began, I wasn't surprised. These were the same people I'd known. Now after visiting Mexico for
28 years and knowing its people, I see few signs of Mexicans' discontent with their lot. The times I have heard them speak their minds have stayed in
my memory like a treasure, and I remember every word said. The highest ideals of activism have ironically come from those who would seem to be most
cowed, the indigenous of Oaxaca and Chiapas. The exploits of the Zapatistas, while better known, have not surpassed the protests of the Oaxacans, with
their practice of blocking highways. In one case in San Quintin, Oaxacans (while seasonally employed in the fields) succeeded in forcing the
relocation of the planned siting of a medical center to a center of population, from the hinterlands where the government had planned to place it.
The legacy of patronage by the PRI over seventy years has fostered much complacency.
Of course the degree of difference in higher education between Chileans and Mexicans, undoubtedly accounts for differences in restiveness.
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Dave
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bookerman
Thank you very much for your reply Jesse. I don't see any reason to bring up the Aztlan thing again. However, Dave might want to navigate the Aztlan
site for awhile and see their feelings on Judaism. I'm not Jewish, but even I felt bad about what they are saying there. All religions should be
respected, I think. And what does the Palestinian issue have to do with Aztlanists? I?m not trying to perpetuate any discussion on this; it?s just
that I don?t quite get the Aztlan/ Jewish thing. Take it easy. Book |
WOW Book, thanks for the heads up! I had absolutely NO clue! This is some of the worst crap I have ever seen. Worse than even some of the white power
sites.
I've put my homies on it and will get to the bottom of who's responsible.
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academicanarchist
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Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo
Dave. Sorry, but I just saw your question about the 1848 Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo. There is a long history of how that particular article was
enforced. The bottom line is that the federal government did try to respect land rights, but that Anglo American settlers and scumbag politicians
defeated the process. In New Mexico, newly arrived Anglo-Americans gained control over the territorial government, raised land taxes to the point that
Mexican landowners had to sell out, and then lowered the property tax. It was the Santa Fe gang, that also figured in the Lincoln County War, kind of
loosely interpreted in the Young Guns movies. In California, land claimants had to prove their title to land. Unscrupulous Anglo settlers squatted on
the holders of the Mexican land grants, and contested onwership in court, which was an expensive process that bankrupted many landowners and/or forced
them to sell. In southern California a brutal drought in the 1860s devastated the cattle herds that had been pillaged from the missions, and forced
many of the Mexican landowners to sell. What is generally forgotten is that in the rush to give out land in the 1830s and 1840s, local Mexican
governors trampled on the rights of the local Indian populations, that lost their lands.
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