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Paula
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David, there isn't enough information in Doradodan's post to draw any conclusions. The posted salary of a supervisor doen't tell us what the salary
of a laborer is. I assume that a supervisor would be paid much more than a laborer, but I don't know that.
But I think that even if a laborer is paid 1000 pesos a week the mine will come out with big profits and the people in the area will make a little
more money than they did before. And when the mining gets tough and the minerals aren't so profitable the company will bail leaving the people around
Santa Rosalia jobless and the land destroyed. the ranchers who were forced to sell out will probably not be doing well either.
Butte Montana is a good example of a town dependent on a mining economy. It's an interesting place with an interesting history, and not a happy place
to live these days.
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Don Alley
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After the mining companies are done
From Wikepedia...
The Berkeley Pit is a gigantic former open pit copper mine located in Butte, Montana, and is the one of the largest Superfund sites. It was opened in
1955 and operated by the Anaconda Mining Company and later by the Atlantic Richfield Company (ARCO), until its closure in 1982. When the pit was
closed, the water pumps at the bottom were also turned off, which caused groundwater from the surrounding basin to leak into the pit. The water seeped
through metal deposits, causing it to become heavily acidic and laden with heavy metals and dangerous chemicals such as arsenic, cadmium, zinc, and
sulfuric acid. The water has a pH level of 2.5. Toxic water was filling up the pit at a very fast rate after its closure until it was a mile wide and
over 900 feet feep, but it was not until the 1990s that serious plans were devised for solving this problem.
The water is so loaded with metals (up to 187 ppm Cu) that "mining" of the water has been done. However, fluctuations in power prices have made this
difficult.
In 1995, a large flock of migrating snow geese landed on the Berkeley Pit water and were killed, most likely by the high concentration of acid. 342
carcasses were recovered. Their livers and kidneys had bloated, and many had eroded esophaguses. ARCO, the current custodian of the Pit, denied that
the toxic water caused the death of the geese, instead blaming their deaths on their diet. They maintain that the Pit is safe and environmentally
sound.
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Cincodemayo
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Well certainly a reputable company like ARCO would deny such a rediculous accusation such as that. Oil companies always abide by ecological laws.
Bastards should be accountable for every penny to clean it up but they'd raise gas prices during the next "shortage".
Don\'t get mad...
Get EVEN.
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Barry A.
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Many pre-EPA mines are hazardous, for a variety of reasons. We have one here in Redding that probably will never be cleaned up-----just to monumental
a job, and it too is on the "list".
However since the environmental awareness movement these situations have become known there are laws to prevent this from happening now. Mexico has
strick laws, I am told, so I highly doubt that there will be a down-the-line significant environmental problems with El Bolero.
I believe that this mine is a huge "plus" for the Santa Rosalia area economically, however people need to keep their eyes wide open and have
alternatives when, and if, the mine closes in the future. Providing for the workers AFTER the mine plays out is NOT the Companies responsibility.
Hellooooooooo????
[Edited on 12-13-2006 by Barry A.]
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Barry A.
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Cinco-------
If you think gas prices are high now, just wait a few years.
It is called "supply and demand", I think.
Invest in a good Energy Fund and it will more than compensate you for the higher prices------that is called "capitolism" in action, I believe.
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Cincodemayo
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Barry...as soon as things in the Middle East really turn for the worst we can just turn it into a glass factory, take the oil and start selling it to
France for $500 a barrel. Screw the Saudis too. They were riding camels before we gave them drilling technology and now they are driving Ferraris and
Lamborghinis. Send all the sand monkeys back to the stone age.
Don\'t get mad...
Get EVEN.
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rts551
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whose responsibility should it be? At 100 pesos per day they will save for the future on their own? Maybe another invasion of workers from Central
Mexico? The mine may be a plus... for whom, for how long, and how huge is where "wide open eyes" are necessary.
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Cincodemayo
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With the price of copper at the moment why not? The last wind storm here in the PNW some idiot stole over 2 miles of high voltage power wire over in
Sammamish. Too bad it wasn't energized when he did it!
Don\'t get mad...
Get EVEN.
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bajalou
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When the Pacific Electric RWY red cars were shut down by LARTD in about 1959, they shut down at midnight. At 8am that next morning over 6 miles of
power line was gone.
Minerals and energy are always a boom-bust thing. And even the boom times are only great for the few working in that industry or selling to it. The
rest are stuck with the same old wages as everything from bread to rent jumps in price. I've lived thru some of these and it ain't no fun unless
you're working for the mine.
No Bad Days
\"Never argue with an idiot. People watching may not be able to tell the difference\"
\"The trouble with doing nothing is - how do I know when I\'m done?\"
Nomad Baja Interactive map
And in the San Felipe area - check out Valle Chico area |
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Barry A.
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RTS555--------
OK, once again-------it is each persons responsibility to "open their eyes" and look ahead, ask questions, think, and then take the measures necessary
to protect them and their families!!! Where oh where did this "idea" start that the Government or the Companies were responsible for desisions that
should be made on an individual basis??
AS long as folks are expecting (hoping?) that somebody else is going to look out for them then they are in for some bitter disappointments.
And Cinco----
Now that is a well thought out response-----just nuke em, right??? You should have been on the "panel" that just advised the Pres. 
I guess what you are saying is that the folks in Santa Rosalia should just sit there and hope that Industry will just pass them by, and then they will
be better off. Amazing!!!!
To me Santa Rosalia is the most fasinating "development" in Baja, and I have always thought that. I have spent many a day and night in Santa Rosalia
and I love that place, but it needs something to spark it back into activity, and maybe El Bolero is the ticket. So now you know where I am coming
from.
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Barry A.
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RTS551------
Copper theft on the desert has been a problem for as long as I can remember. Back when I was working Law Enforcement for BLM (1974 to 1986) we had a
constant stream of cases of power lines being ripped down and hauled off by the miles in both the High desert and Low desert of California. And
heaven help you if you left a spool of wire loose on the ground without security----kiss it goodbye, usually.
Like I said in another post-----there are bad guys out there----the scumbags of society-----we will always have them.
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jerry
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if the people have there chip together they will get involved in the saport industrys and make a bundell too or they can just sit around and draw
wages eather way progress is better then stagnation take a chance noone is gonna hand it to ya
jerry and judi
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Cincodemayo
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Barry....they don't seem to be getting anything at the moment and past history dictates that they won't ever get it....except killing each other that
is.
Don\'t get mad...
Get EVEN.
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Barry A.
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Cinco-----
----you sure won't be getting any arguement from me on that point---------pretty sad situation, I say. They give no indication (to me) that they (the
Iraqis) will EVER learn from past history---------
BUT, the Mexicanos appear to me to be much more resourceful, and I think that the El Bolero project will do much more good than bad-----at least I
hope so.
Barry
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rts551
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Barry
I hope so too.... but from what I have seen its not the locals who generally benefit from these large projects. My guess is that if the mine needs
to, they will import labor to work for low wages.
In the 60's I used to like the San Quintin Valley... They were promised a lot when the agriculture came in... Like it now? And the families I knew
did not benefit. Guerro Negro was promised a lot when the salt works came in... and so on and so on.
I too like Santa Rosalia... it is one of the closest places for me to shop and bank... Don't get me wrong, I think Baja california needs
opportunity and jobs.... but too many people think that 100 pesos per day (or less) is opportunity or a minimul payment for their land will sustain
them (or they just like their own opportunity to increase their own profits).
Baja Californios do need to open their eyes and make the right decisions...
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Cincodemayo
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Right with ya Barry...nothing wrong with job availability and resources to keep it going.
Don\'t get mad...
Get EVEN.
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David K
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| Quote: | Originally posted by rts551
Barry
I hope so too.... but from what I have seen its not the locals who generally benefit from these large projects....
And the families I knew did not benefit. Guerro Negro was promised a lot when the salt works came in... ... |
Just a historic point:
Guerrero Negro did not exist before the salt mine... It was a company town, built from an empty piece of land between the Scammon's Lagoon salt flats
and the Black Warrior (Guerrero Negro) Lagoon, where the salt was originally hauled out.
In fact the 'town' began 49 years ago and originally was called 'Salina Vizcaino'. It was just a construction camp in 1957 building the causeway out
to a warf, 6 miles in the lagoon.
By 1960 the population was listed as 900 and the Exportadora de Sal, S.A. company town name was changed to Guerrero Negro with salt producing
operations begun in 1958.
[Edited on 12-14-2006 by David K]
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rts551
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Agreed David.. But I believe there were promises to the ejidos... whoops don't want to open that post again
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David K
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No worries amigo...
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bajalou
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Talked to a friend who's company is negotiating to build some of the stuff for the copper mine iis that it is to be a underground mine - no strip
mining. Using the "continuous wall" technique that is used in underground coal mines.
No Bad Days
\"Never argue with an idiot. People watching may not be able to tell the difference\"
\"The trouble with doing nothing is - how do I know when I\'m done?\"
Nomad Baja Interactive map
And in the San Felipe area - check out Valle Chico area |
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