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jerry
Super Nomad
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Registered: 10-10-2003
Location: loreto
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im with you there skeet i believe that anyone who wants anything can get it if there willing to do what it takes to get it
not get it from some agence who took it from someone elses efforts
jerry and judi
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
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C'mon Skeet-----
What union in the recent past, especially since Regan busted the traffic controlers, has used force and corruption to convey there demands?
Which union has that power?
The unions today can only dictate through numbers as a voting block, used by politicians to win their issues. You might be better served if you asked
yourself why a large portion of your taxes are spent in Iraq.
Tell me Skeet ......... Is it better to buy bombs which fall on a lost cause or spend money helping your neighbor?
You never paid half your earnings to welfare. If you did, somebody owes you a lot of money. Why would you say that?
You're right. Business produces jobs. But what good is a job if the employer doesn't pay?
And, these people holding these "jobs" at the markets who have to wear these explainations on their chest--------- Where is the fine line between
asking for tips and begging?
Human decency demands an answer.
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
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Larry --------
Yeah, I tip them, which in my understanding, makes them my employee because nobody else pays them.
How can you question the validity of any economy which thrives on the premiss of,"an equal days pay for an equal days work" ?
The Cerrillo system, as you put it, should be an admirable adventure of the employer, not the customer or the kid.
Is, as you say, hiring an unskilled worker such a risk to the employer? What is the risk? Do the Maquiladoras hire on that method? Work here for
tips because you may be a risk? Do Cerrillos deserve less respect than they?
I dont think so.
Again, I believe you are loseing my point. It isn't the learning apprenticeship that concerns me. It is the un-paid aspect of it that does.
Also may I add, they arn't unskilled as you put it. They are doing exactly as they have been taught to do. Basic for sure but, experts in their
young minds.
The guys stocking shelves will probably remember their days of working for nothing and swell with pride on their recollection of the day when their
employer finally decided they were worth something. That had to be a proud moment for both of them.
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
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They work for tips. Do you have to call corporate for an explaination?
The store doesn't pay them.
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
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I dont care how much they're making, Larry. The company they're working for doesn't pay them. Doesn't that mean anything to you?
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Baja Bernie
`Normal` Nomad Correspondent
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Mood: Just dancing through life
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Dennis
I agree with your sentiment but what they do is far better than begging at the border. The 'tips' they make do have a positive impact on their
family's ability cope and they are not digging trash at the dumps.
A lot of us old guys worked at jobs that would now be considered violations of child labor laws...........and we were very happy to do that work. It
taught us responsiblity and made us think we were worth something............The younger generation in most first world countries should be as lucky
as we were when we were 'allowed' to work................Mexico is interesting because many of the managers of small businesses are all of 15 years
old and they know what they are about....and we have children of 35 still living at home.............I vote for Mexico.
And I hope that some of the younger members of the board realize just what that quarter means to the kid that bagged your groceries.
At least the post generated some converation and perhaps it increased understanding of the subject.
My smidgen of a claim to fame is that I have had so many really good friends. By Bernie Swaim December 2007
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DENNIS
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Thanks Bernie, I appreciate that........
Dont take this wrong but I think you are also missing my point. Allow me to try for clarification before I give up.
I understand child labor.
I understand that a child of five may be asked to shovel mounds of cow-crap to earn a few pennys.
I understand that a kid of seven can stand at the entrance of a steelmill during the war selling daily papers.
I understand delivering papers on my bicycle in the dark of night during driving rains.
I understand pinching pennys from the church collection plate because I didn't have anything.
I understand my mother putting newspaper in my shoes to keep the road from chilling my feet.
I understand being told by my parents, strong Catholics, that we wouldn't have dinner that night because we were "fasting" for God.
What I never heard from my parents was that I should expect anything from anybody else. If rocks and twigs were on the plate, that's what we got.
Im the first one to help those in need. The store owners should see it through our eyes.
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Skeet/Loreto
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Dennis: Please let us not go into the Iraq War. I am a Korean Vet who supports my Goverment and President.
I wish that you could have spend the past 40 years in Baja Sur, think you would realize the following;
Survival of the Fitest.
Skeet/Loreto
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jerry
Super Nomad
Posts: 1354
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Dennis are you saying that every city should be paying the panhandelers because there giving them the oppertunity to put up a sign and beg for a
living?? perhaps all the street walkers should be on the citys payroll too?? LOL NOT
jerry and judi
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
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If the governments had it together, there wouldn,t be panhandelers on either side of the border.
As for the streetwalkers, at least the ones that walk in and out of Anthony's in Ensenada, they don't need subsidy of any kind.
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Skeet/Loreto
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Dennis:
The many, many workers in the States are Mexicanos; They do many of the jobs that Americanos will not undertake_ Construction-Landscraping- Field
work- Dairy Work etc.
Those good workers were once "Kids" in Mexico. Where did they develop that Work Ethic??? Did they at one time work a CCC for Tips?
Did they Pick Cotton in the fields at Constitution along with their Parents? Did they do the Hard Work at the many Ejidos?
I think that you have to Admit that those that put out the Effort, are trained Responsible in their Kid years, are the ones who will Survive.
In my Opinion the Kids of today that spend their time being Spoiled by the IPODS and Gameboys are being Abused by their Parents. Many will grow up and
be Drags on the Future Generation.
When I need someone to Work for me I always go look for a Mexicano, when I rent a House I look for the Mexicano Family--Why??
Because I have found that their Work Ethic is much better than many Americanos.
The Kids of Baja will do much better than their Counterpart in the States in the next 50 years so relax and see if you can find some Union Kids that
can keep up the Pace.
Skeet/Loreto
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DENNIS
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Skeet ---
OK. I agree....again. They develop a wonderful work ethic. So, whats that got to do with the stores working them for nothing because the kids and
their families may be desperate enough to hope that store customers will add to the high price of grocerys by giving them a tip? It isn't the kids or
the older folks who put themselves in this position that bothers me. It's the stores that have developed an insidious method to get people to work
for nothing that has my attention. You folks keep going back to the kids and what they gain from working........earning money and developing
character. I couldn't agree more. But what developed the character of a person who will work the young and the old without paying them?
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Dave
Elite Nomad
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
They work for tips. Do you have to call corporate for an explaination?
The store doesn't pay them. |
Maybe they only work for tips because it's illegal for the stores to actually hire them. 
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
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Dave ----
Think that's it? Well, lets look at that. If it's illegal to hire kids it would have to be for child protection reasons and laws pertaining to
child labor.
That being the case, the stores are in violation of these protective laws because, even they couldn't deny the fact that the kids do work in the
stores.
So, what we end up with is an employer who works children illegally, with impunity and.......without pay. The plot thickens.
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DENNIS
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Forgot to mention those advanced age cerillos. Perhaps there's a law that says they're too old to receive pay......
[Edited on 3-5-2007 by DENNIS]
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Dave
Elite Nomad
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
Dave ----
Think that's it? |
At least one of the reasons.
I was being facetious. I'm an employer in Mexico so I am somewhat familiar with the labor laws.
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
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Dave ---
Im sure it's not as cut and dried as I would prefer to think. I knew you were being facetious when you began your sentence with, " Maybe."
Larry -----
No. Havn't interviewed anybody. Just by talking about it, Im probably guilty of practicing law without a license. I look forward to hearing what
you learn. By the way, airspace is free and abundant.
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Skeet/Loreto
Ultra Nomad
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Dennis: To go back to your original Post--
What is your Solution--????
Skeet/Loreto
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
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The stores should pay people who work for them. That can't be considered unreasonable.
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David K
Honored Nomad
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Dennis, yes... if they work FOR the stores... Perhaps they are independent contractors? Also, is anyone forcing them to do the work or are they there
because it is their own free choice to be?
Sorry if this has been answered previously, because I read the thread fairly quickly and could have missed it. Of course, you wouldn't be restating
your point if it had been answered, I guess?
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