| Pages:
1
2
3 |
academicanarchist
Senior Nomad
Posts: 978
Registered: 9-7-2003
Member Is Offline
|
|
First Rosario SIte
I am going to also attach several photos of the first Rosario site.
|
|
|
academicanarchist
Senior Nomad
Posts: 978
Registered: 9-7-2003
Member Is Offline
|
|
1st Rosario Site
The ruined structure on the left of the photo was the mission church.
[Edited on 2-7-2004 by academicanarchist]
|
|
|
academicanarchist
Senior Nomad
Posts: 978
Registered: 9-7-2003
Member Is Offline
|
|
1st Rosario Site
Ruins of the church.
|
|
|
academicanarchist
Senior Nomad
Posts: 978
Registered: 9-7-2003
Member Is Offline
|
|
1st Rosario Site
|
|
|
academicanarchist
Senior Nomad
Posts: 978
Registered: 9-7-2003
Member Is Offline
|
|
Ruins of Santo Domingo Mission
|
|
|
jrbaja
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4863
Registered: 2-2-2003
Member Is Offline
|
|
No need to apologize David.
It was just a question. But you know these boards. And with your connection with Ms.Pepper, I didn't rule it out.
And I'm pretty sure that Jimmy Smith , may he rest in Tequila, the love of Dona Lupe, and Off Road adventures, didn't call him "Uncle Earl".
hahahahaha
|
|
|
academicanarchist
Senior Nomad
Posts: 978
Registered: 9-7-2003
Member Is Offline
|
|
1st Rosario Site
I found a couple of more photos of the first site of Rosario.
|
|
|
academicanarchist
Senior Nomad
Posts: 978
Registered: 9-7-2003
Member Is Offline
|
|
1st Rosrio Site
|
|
|
bufeo
Senior Nomad
Posts: 793
Registered: 11-16-2003
Location: Santa Fe New Mexico
Member Is Offline
|
|
TW,
I tried to send you a pvt msg, but for some reason, the msg didn't want to make the connection. Maybe you can try from your direction to send one to
me.
In any event, I have some information pertaining to your original question (maybe that has been forgotten) that may be of interest to you, but I
don't want to post it here for all the world to see.
|
|
|
academicanarchist
Senior Nomad
Posts: 978
Registered: 9-7-2003
Member Is Offline
|
|
Ruins of alleged Santa Ysabel Mission
The original question was if anybody has visited the site of the alleged Santa Ysabel Mission shown in Gardner's book Hovering Over Baja. There may be
ruins at the site, but it was not a lost mission.
|
|
|
David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64854
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
|
|
Venegas' 1757 Map of 'Lost Missions'
'Lost' as meaning never existed or never started or maybe started or maybe existed. Padre Miguel Venegas was never in California but had access to all
church mail and documents coming from California from which he drew the map. The map also shows a water hole between Gonzaga Bay and Punta San Fermin
(a point 10 miles north of Puertecitos). The water hole is called Aguaje de Santa Isabel. Choral Pepper and her son Trent searched the area south of
Puertecitos for Santa Isabel.
AA... can you reduce the size of your photos, because my browser will not open any of them or the posts in this thread with so much to download...? I
am replying 'blind' with this post of the map. Thanks!
|
|
|
academicanarchist
Senior Nomad
Posts: 978
Registered: 9-7-2003
Member Is Offline
|
|
Photos
Actually, I did reduce the size of the photos from the originals that I have digitized. The mission never existed! I have looked at much of the
documentation, as have others. It is a myth my friend. The general reports prepared for their superiors survive, and there is no mention of Santa
Ysabel. The definitive information on Dolores del Norte came from one such report.
|
|
|
bajalera
Super Nomad
Posts: 1875
Registered: 10-15-2003
Location: Santa Maria CA
Member Is Offline
|
|
JR, back there around 15 feet of posts ago, you said something I'd question--that Mexicans always know more about Baja than foreigners do.
Mexican archaeologists, for example, didn't have much interest in Baja until recently--for good reason. Being human, they preferred working on a dig
where the artifacts might include gold ornaments, ornate pottery and fine textiles--with restaurants, hotels and markets nearby--to working in Baja,
where the most exciting stuff you might find would be a secondary burial painted with red ochre, an atlatl, maybe a scrap of netting--at a place forty
miles from the nearest source of ice.
Archaeologists are every bit as territorial as mocking-birds, and Baja has become a popular place to work among Mexicans only after claims have been
staked on most of the interesting sites on the mainland.
The person directly responsible for most of the early peninsular studies was Dr. Carl Ortwin Sauer of UCal/Berkeley, a grumpy geographer who started
bringing graduate students in geography and anthropology down here in the 1940s. They were the Ph.D.s of Homer Aschmann's generation, who were
fascinated by Baja in days when Mexicans were not, and who laid the foundation for today's scholars--both Mexican and American..
I'm not sounding off to diss Mexican scientists--who are presently doing some great work here--but credit should be given when it's due.
As for getting true stories from local people, that can be iffy. I've heard a rancher say the ruins near his house were those of an Aztec temple.
bajalera
\"Very few things happen at the right time, and the rest never happen at all. The conscientious historian will correct these defects.\" -
Mark Twain
|
|
|
TMW
Select Nomad
Posts: 10659
Registered: 9-1-2003
Location: Bakersfield, CA
Member Is Offline
|
|
Bufeo my email is TWDOE34@aol.com
|
|
|
academicanarchist
Senior Nomad
Posts: 978
Registered: 9-7-2003
Member Is Offline
|
|
The Berkeley School
Actually, Sauer and his students visited Baja California in the 1920s, on. One of the earliest was Peveril Meigs, who published his study of the
Dominican missions in 1935. Sauer and Meigs published a shorter study of San Fernando in 1926. Aschmann came a little later. Although more biased in
content, Zephyrin Engelhardt, O.F.M., published his first study of the Baja California Missions around 1912. There have been several Mexican scholars
who have done good historical studies of the Baja California missions in recent years.
[Edited on 2-12-2004 by academicanarchist]
[Edited on 2-12-2004 by academicanarchist]
|
|
|
bajalera
Super Nomad
Posts: 1875
Registered: 10-15-2003
Location: Santa Maria CA
Member Is Offline
|
|
Miguel Leon'Portilla gets my vote as No. 1 Baja historian.* He certainly made a lot of great additions to the Barco ms. And his book of ensayos is
interesting too.
bajalera
*Right after Erle Stanley, that is.
\"Very few things happen at the right time, and the rest never happen at all. The conscientious historian will correct these defects.\" -
Mark Twain
|
|
|
academicanarchist
Senior Nomad
Posts: 978
Registered: 9-7-2003
Member Is Offline
|
|
Leon Portilla
He did do a good job with editing Del Barco, and is a nice person. I met him many years ago. However, his perspective is very different from my
perspective on the Baja California missions and frontier missions in general. Take a look at some of my publications, and then let me know what you
think of my approach and perspective.
|
|
|
bajalera
Super Nomad
Posts: 1875
Registered: 10-15-2003
Location: Santa Maria CA
Member Is Offline
|
|
AA - I'll certainly take a look at your perspectives, provided I can find them anywhere down here. (Haven't checked out libraries yet, but if they're
on a par with La Paz bookstores the chances aren't too good.)
My Spanish isn't up to original documents, so I'm stuck with what's in print. I'm working on a book about Baja Nomads--the originals--with a chapter
on the Second Harvest that will make me famous. Or maybe just infamous.
bajalera
\"Very few things happen at the right time, and the rest never happen at all. The conscientious historian will correct these defects.\" -
Mark Twain
|
|
|
academicanarchist
Senior Nomad
Posts: 978
Registered: 9-7-2003
Member Is Offline
|
|
Books
Try Amazon.Com. Look under Robert H. Jackson.
|
|
|
academicanarchist
Senior Nomad
Posts: 978
Registered: 9-7-2003
Member Is Offline
|
|
availability
I checked Amazon.Com, and there are copies of Indian Population Decline relatively inexpensive used. My book on the California missions is a bit more
expensive, as are several other of my book.
|
|
|
| Pages:
1
2
3 |
![[*]](images/xmbforum/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
