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Bajaboy
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4375
Registered: 10-9-2003
Location: Bahia Asuncion, BCS, Mexico
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
Any answers?
Does anybody care?
Jesse...........Where is the fence? C'mon. You like this stuff.
Al G.............Where's the fence?
Mexitron..............Where's the efing fence?
If you heroe's of the status quo want to debate the propriety of illegal entry, why can't you give an instant to tell me where the fence is?
I've lost our fence.
Where is it? |
Last I heard, Bush signed the law to extend the fence but failed to provide any money....
So, is the fence supposed to protect our border or deter illegal immigration? Either way, if you're for a fence, and I take it you are, are you
suggesting that we put one on the northern border as well?
Again, just trying to hash out the details...
Zac
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Al G
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2647
Registered: 12-19-2004
Location: Todos Santos/Full time for now...
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Mood: Wondering what is next???
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Dennis...only a concept...we don't need a fence.
Take the couple billion or so we pay the enforcement agency's and give it to the Mexican Government....they can collect each year there is no illegal
crossings. Institute a real guest worker program...with real... "free" (no penalty's) citizenship after 2-3 years. Control where they settle(not
ganged up in slum areas). I will bet in ten years, there would be two country's free of these issues . A free integrated society with voting rights
will get us past this embarrassment.
Albert G
Remember, if you haven\'t got a smile on your face and laughter in your heart, then you are just a sour old fart!....
The most precious thing we have is life, yet it has absolutely no trade-in value.
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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Zac ---------
No. I'm not for a fence. I always thought it was an insane aproach to an answer.
What I am for is our government doing what it says it will do.
They said they would build a fence and, I want to see them do what they said they would do. Build a fence. Or, at least, make an effort.
As for "The Fence", I have my own ideas. It could be built as a three stand wire fence, and could be affective if it was built inside the line,
maybe an eighth mile in. It would be ours and we could monitor both sides. We wouldn't have to worry about splitting the line. It would change
from a scenario of, our side-your side. Both sides would be ours. If our fence was touched, a law was broken.
But, isn't that the way it is today with the virtual fence?
No. It,s virtual. It can't be seen.
Why do we have to go through this for respect?
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Al G
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2647
Registered: 12-19-2004
Location: Todos Santos/Full time for now...
Member Is Offline
Mood: Wondering what is next???
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajaboy
| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
Any answers?
Does anybody care?
Jesse...........Where is the fence? C'mon. You like this stuff.
Al G.............Where's the fence?
Mexitron..............Where's the efing fence?
If you heroe's of the status quo want to debate the propriety of illegal entry, why can't you give an instant to tell me where the fence is?
I've lost our fence.
Where is it? |
Last I heard, Bush signed the law to extend the fence but failed to provide any money....
So, is the fence supposed to protect our border or deter illegal immigration? Either way, if you're for a fence, and I take it you are, are you
suggesting that we put one on the northern border as well?
Again, just trying to hash out the details...
Zac |
No border needed there either...Mexicans need a border fence to keep our northern brother out of Baja...
[Edited on 6-16-2007 by Al G]
Albert G
Remember, if you haven\'t got a smile on your face and laughter in your heart, then you are just a sour old fart!....
The most precious thing we have is life, yet it has absolutely no trade-in value.
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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Thanks Al ----
I forgot that I was down here enjoying life without being involved with their non-existant social services and free medical care.
Jeezo....... I have to keep in mind that, if I'm parked at the Ensenada WalMart, about to deliver a child, that I can't dial 911 and from that
moment, you, as in you, get to pay for everything that happens.
I don't know Albert. I'm just getting fed up with all of it.
Im having a bad day. Sorry.
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Mexitron
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3397
Registered: 9-21-2003
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
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Mood: Happy!
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Dennis--many people are in favor of putting up the fence, so the government is giving them lip service by passing bills and such. But they won't
build the fence because it isn't within their economic ideals to do so. Are they acting in the best interest of the American people? I don't know.
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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I can't think that BSing the American public is in their best interest.
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bajalou
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4459
Registered: 3-11-2004
Location: South of the broder
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Without them, who will do the work?
"The number of unemployed persons (6.8 million) and the unemployment rate
(4.5 percent) were unchanged in May. The jobless rate has ranged from 4.4 to
4.6 percent since September 2006."
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm
Now, lets see if I got this right - 15 million illegal workers, 6.8 million unemployed - looks to me like if we get rid of the illegals, put ALL the
unemployed to work we still have 8.2 million jobs with no one to fill them. So now what??????? 
No Bad Days
\"Never argue with an idiot. People watching may not be able to tell the difference\"
\"The trouble with doing nothing is - how do I know when I\'m done?\"
Nomad Baja Interactive map
And in the San Felipe area - check out Valle Chico area |
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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| Quote: | Originally posted by bajalou
Without them, who will do the work?
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Legal immigrants will do the work. If we still have a shortage of manpower, we bring in more legal immigrants. The supply will meet our demands,
not the demands of a ragged south of the border economy.
Is that such a naive proposal that nobody wants to consider it?
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JESSE
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3370
Registered: 11-5-2002
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
| Quote: | Originally posted by bajalou
Without them, who will do the work?
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Legal immigrants will do the work. If we still have a shortage of manpower, we bring in more legal immigrants. The supply will meet our demands,
not the demands of a ragged south of the border economy.
Is that such a naive proposal that nobody wants to consider it? |
It is naive, its naive to actually believe that people that already have harsh sentiments towards Mexicans (and theres plenty of millions of those),
will just accept it if the goverment decides to import several million immigrants from Mexico every few years. You see, theres some very smart folks
up in Washington, they know that this is a visceral issue, and people don't use their brains to decide if its right or wrong, they just go with what
feels right. So IF what you say would to happen, it wouldnt change anything, because the discussion would just turn from "why are we letting in
illegals?" to "So many Mexicans will ruin our way of life?"
I better get back to work in this ragged south of the border economy
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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| Quote: | Originally posted by JESSE
It is naive, its naive to actually believe that people that already have harsh sentiments towards Mexicans (and theres plenty of millions of those),
will just accept it if the goverment decides to import several million immigrants from Mexico every few years. You see, theres some very smart folks
up in Washington, they know that this is a visceral issue, and people don't use their brains to decide if its right or wrong, they just go with what
feels right. So IF what you say would to happen, it wouldnt change anything, because the discussion would just turn from "why are we letting in
illegals?" to "So many Mexicans will ruin our way of life?"
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Just about everything you said up there is ridiculous.
A work force which will fulfill a need is at the heart of the issue so, why would a viable solution upset anybody other than a card carrying,
xenophobic bigot? Is that what you think of the people of the United States? Hateful, brainless, reactionaries? Living our lives on a visceral
level? "It wouldn't change anything", you say. Well, Jesse, I think it would change a lot of things. For one, by having a controlled border, we
would have self-respect and, that's important. We sure as hell arn't going to get much of that stuff from Mexico, are we.
"So many Mexicans will ruin our way of life". Jesse, if you had any idea of the depth of our apathy, you wouldn't have said that. The American
people, as a group, won't even say that about real terrorists.
Jesse, the United States is a country. It's our home. There's a lot more to it than the Home Depot parking lot. We would like to think that we are
in charge of our home and if we can help others in the process, that's good but, it has to be because we want to do it. Not because Mexico says we
have to do it.
So Jesse, when you're done washing those dishes, take a short break and make a list of those "very smart folks up in Washington". It won't take
long.
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woody with a view
PITA Nomad
Posts: 15939
Registered: 11-8-2004
Location: Looking at the Coronado Islands
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Mood: Everchangin'
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i didn't wanna get into this but i'm bored so...seal the borders first!
then we can talk about letting people who break our laws have a chance at citizenship while folks here LEGALLY on any number of different VISAS will
be forced to go home. how is that right?
why is our president so intent on ramming this bill down america's throat? something stinks!!!!
and before i'm labeled a xenophobe or a racist, my wife came from peru-LEGALLY. i'm all for resonable limits, but outright "paths" to citizenship and
bringing your entire extended family? WOW! what is the rush to get this done???????
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toneart
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4901
Registered: 7-23-2006
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Mood: Skeptical
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
I can't think that BSing the American public is in their best interest. |
No, but it certainly works for the Government. 
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JESSE
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3370
Registered: 11-5-2002
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DENNIS
| Quote: | Just about everything you said up there is ridiculous.
A work force which will fulfill a need is at the heart of the issue so, why would a viable solution upset anybody other than a card carrying,
xenophobic bigot? Is that what you think of the people of the United States? Hateful, brainless, reactionaries? Living our lives on a visceral level?
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All humans are visceral, thats why we vote into office people who are seriously flawed politicians, because all of us as a society wether we are from
China or from Iceland, tend to go collectively with what we feel is right instead of what think is right. This is not about americans, but about human
nature.
| Quote: | "It wouldn't change anything", you say. Well, Jesse, I think it would change a lot of things. For one, by having a controlled border, we would have
self-respect and, that's important. We sure as hell arn't going to get much of that stuff from Mexico, are we.
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You don't have to convince me about that, if you listen to what i am saying, i am actually in agreement with your views. But i also know the United
States has the means to close the border if it wants, why don't they? my only reasonable explanation is that they do it like this because they need it
and know, that if the general population had a say in it, they would choose not to let enough immigrants in. The other choice, and the one i guess you
feel is true, is that the goverment is screwing you for what ever reasons related to big business and other economic interests. Maybe i am naive, but
i cannot accept this last choice.
| Quote: | Jesse, the United States is a country. It's our home. There's a lot more to it than the Home Depot parking lot. We would like to think that we are in
charge of our home and if we can help others in the process, that's good but, it has to be because we want to do it. Not because Mexico says we have
to do it.
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I agree with that 100% and think your nation has the right to do what ever it wants with its future. What i can't figure out is why so much anger?
| Quote: | | So Jesse, when you're done washing those dishes, take a short break and make a list of those "very smart folks up in Washington". It won't take long.
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If the list truly is as short as you think, then illegal immigration is the least of our problems, and i refuse to believe your nation and mine have
seen their best days and are in a sure path to hell.
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oldhippie
Banned
Posts: 742
Registered: 6-25-2006
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Mood: muted
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The argument that we need immigration to help pay for the boomer demographic spike moving through old age is a powerful one. It's relevant to the
naturization process that must occur to solve the legal problems of millions of immigrants already living in the US. Let's get those folks paying
taxes! I don't think there is a shortage of jobs.
As far as a trip to hell, we're 3/4 of the way through a detour taking us there and back. ETA back, January 2009.
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oldhippie
Banned
Posts: 742
Registered: 6-25-2006
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Mood: muted
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naturalization - naturally
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MrBillM
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21656
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Out and About
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Mood: It's a Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah Day
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Smoke and Mirrors
The bottom line remains that the current immigration proposal in the Senate is a con job to take the issue out of the 2008 election debate. Even so,
if I were betting serious money, I'd still bet against the legislation ever reaching the Bush desk. Despite whatever closed doors deals Harry Rex and
company make, their plans will likely suffer from bad timing.
Passing Their version just prior to the Summer Break means that there will be extensive analysis and debate prior to the measure ever
reaching the House where it already faces substantial opposition. Even those supporting the bill, think it is doubtful it would pass the House
without substantial modification which will result in a drawn out debate while the bill is subject to the House-Senate Conference committee.
Unless Congress actually backs up their promises on enforcement triggers and committed funding, I don't see the opposition backing off.
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Not having seen the statistical evidence regarding the Millions of illegal immigrants in the U.S. who flooded across the Canadian
Border, I'm not sure why anyone would think we need to secure that border. Apparently some have received said info, probably while they were not
wearing their Aluminum hats.
However, closing that border would have the beneficial effect of keeping Canadians out of the U.S. A good thing in any case.
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woody with a view
PITA Nomad
Posts: 15939
Registered: 11-8-2004
Location: Looking at the Coronado Islands
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Mood: Everchangin'
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| Quote: |
Apparently some have received said info, probably while they were not wearing their Aluminum hats.
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Cypress
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7641
Registered: 3-12-2006
Location: on the bayou
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Mood: undecided
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I'm getting mental pictures of the "Oklahoma Land Rush". No restrictions if
you're heading north. Southbound? Check out the FM3 qualifications.
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bancoduo
Banned
Posts: 1003
Registered: 10-3-2005
Location: el carcel publico mazatlan sin.
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EARLY MORNING PICTURE FROM A LOS ANGELES HOME DEPOT
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