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CaboRon
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Hose A
Replacement for R-12
http://www.refrigerantsales.com/
Low Cost
Autofrost is about 1/4th the cost of R-12.
High Performance
Autofrost will produce a 3 to 10 degree colder air temperature at the duct than R-12.
EPA Accepted
Autofrost X3 has been found acceptable by the EPA for automotive and fixed applications.
No Oil Change
Autofrost is totally compatible with the existing mineral oil in an R-12 system.
[Edited on 9-11-2007 by Hose A] |
Hose A,
Now that's what I was really looking for.. A direct replacement for the R-12...... that is compatable with mother nature.
Thanks for the link and the information,
- CaboRon
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Dave
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http://www.tierramerica.info/nota.php?lang=eng&idnews=94...
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Bajalero
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| Quote: | | Quote: | Originally posted by mtgoat666
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global warming is real... one reason you can't buy R-12 in US... you really should pay the extra dollars and quit using the bad
stuff like CFC -- the polar bears will thank you. |
Where do you come up with stuff like this ? You just pull it out of your arse or what .
It's not illegal to buy R12 in the US. It's regulated and if you have the proper license you can buy all you want tomorrow. Try Johnstone supply .
It is no longer manufactured in the US and many other countries and the remaining manufacturers are gradually cutting back to zero. Then once the
supply is gone, it's gone.
It's available widely in Mex. but it is considered CONTRABAND if you decide to cross the border with it - even if you're licensed.
About the time it's all gone, R134 and a mix of other refrigerants will have been found to be detrimental to the environment/ atmosphere and will be
banned paving the way for yet another money making "new" replacement.
By the way, I'm not recommending it , but regular old dry propane works about as good as any replacement for R12
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Dave
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Cool!
| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajalero
By the way, I'm not recommending it , but regular old dry propane works about as good as any replacement for R12 |
My brain don't work that way and never would have thought about it but a big part of R-12 is propane, no?
Think I could find "dry" in Mexico?
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vandy
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Look up "envirosafe" refrigerant, basically propane mixed with butane, in cans ready-to-use. I got some for $50 including pressure gauge, 5 cans, and
valve adapters and postage.
It won't blow up in your system unless you add O2 to it somehow...
There are a few other manufacturers also.
Good luck!
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Pescador
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Propane actually cools the system better than R-12, but leaks and collisions really play havoc with hot engines. I had a friend with a newer
Mercedes-Benz who did not want to replace R-12 when he did the system at the higher price and he replaced with Propane, but the car is "toast" now.
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Bajalero
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Dave
| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajalero
By the way, I'm not recommending it , but regular old dry propane works about as good as any replacement for R12 |
My brain don't work that way and never would have thought about it but a big part of R-12 is propane, no?
Think I could find "dry" in Mexico? |
Dave, R12 ,aka freon, is a single molecule . C Cl2 F2. no propane there. Non toxic , non flamable .
R12 was used as a propellant and dispersant in many products , insecticide foggers (the best ones ever), aerosols and even in medicines like the
inhalers asthmatics use. Maybe thats what you were thinking?
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Dave
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But isn't there a refrigerant R-something that is mostly propane?
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Bajalero
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Dave
But isn't there a refrigerant R-something that is mostly propane? |
I had to look it up but propane has its own refrigerant designation.
R290
I think what you may be asking is if some of the replacements are actually part propane?
some of the aftermarket replacements for r-12 have a large propane component. They mix it with isobutane and I've heard they're experimenting with CO2
- propane mixtures. I would guess to help keep it from igniting in an accident.
Here's one that sounds like it is pure propane
http://www.deepfreezeinc.ca/faq.htm
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Dave
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajalero
I would guess to help keep it from igniting in an accident.
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The amount to charge a car's system shouldn't be much of a concern, eh?
I've used propane to air up tires.
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Bajalero
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Dave
| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajalero
I would guess to help keep it from igniting in an accident.
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The amount to charge a car's system shouldn't be much of a concern, eh?
I've used propane to air up tires. |
I would think it negligible and I'm going to give one of the propane replacements a try for comparison sometime
If your thinking about an R12 retrofit/ replacement it makes since to me since conversion to 134 can be expensive if properly done.
Alot of people complain about their 134 A/C not being cool enough. It is in fact a less effiicent gas. Most only change the o-rings and compressor oil
but fail to install a larger condensor(in front of the radiator) to remove heat and also don't put in a proper expansion valve for a different gas,
(often mounted on the evaporator) in the cab of your car.
If you currently have an R12 system and are in Mex i would just replace it with the same. Have it done at a shop and make sure they have a set of
gauges and a vacuum pump. You are not going to affect the ultimate amount of CFC's in the atmoshere since the amount available is finite and they are
not destroying it. Whether you use it or the next guy will make no difference.
A couple of other important things to consider.
R12 requires a mineral based compressor oil. R134 replacements use a synthetic ester lubricant and the two are not miscible. The propane replacements
advertise complete lubricant compatability
Any time you repair or work on an a/c syatem, it needs to be put on a vacuum for two reasons. One , to check for leaks and two to remove any internal
moisture that can freeze up and decrease the systems efficiency or make it not work altogether. A minimum vacuum of -30mm Hg should be apllied for a
minimum of 1 hour to "boil" off and evacuate all moisture . If your system has simply a slow(like over a year) leak and has lost most of it's
refrigerant , you might be sucessful in just adding the proper amount of replacement to make it work. If it has set without charge for sometime it
will have to be repaired and then put under a vacuum before being charged.
hope this helps
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Minnow
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R-12 is still available in most Mexican auto parts stores.
I used the new replacement, not R-134. It works good too. The air is actually colder than I can ever remember the straight R-12 being. Cabo Ron, I
got a good AC guy in Cantu if you want to charge your system before you head out to the desert. He is certified and will fiil you up with the new
R=12 compatable replacement.
Proud husband of a legal immigrant.
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MrBillM
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Illegal in Baja ??
I planned ahead and bought enough R-12 to last me as long as I will ever need it. Took the cans North a few at a time. I haven't looked on the store
shelves in quite awhile, but now I will on Thursday when I make a weekly trip in San Felipe.
Stay tuned.
[Edited on 9-11-2007 by MrBillM]
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Taco de Baja
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Also be aware that the CARB is contemplating outlawing the sale of safe and sane R134 in California....Stock up now. 
I have, as my low pressure AC line can crack (design flaw in early Tacomas) and leak all the R134.....I want to be able to fix it and refill myself
cheaply rather than have an “AC Master Technician” to do it for $500+.
Yes, I have vaccum pump and Manifold so I know it is evacuated and refilled correctly
| Quote: |
Possible Ban on R134a Refrigerant Sales?
NEWS UPDATE: 3/7/2007 The California Air Resources Board (CARB) has proposed banning the sale of R134a refrigerant to motorists.
The California Air Resources Board (CARB) has proposed a law to ban the sale of 134a refrigerant to consumers, potentially impacting the ability of
California DIYers to work on their cars. If enacted, Californians will no longer be permitted to purchase cans of auto refrigerant, leaving them with
no option but to go to a repair facility for assistance, according to a group opposing the proposed ban.
Link
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Show your outrage at:
Stay cool California
[Edited on 9-11-2007 by Taco de Baja]
Truth generally lies in the coordination of antagonistic opinions
-Herbert Spencer
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MrBillM
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Jeez !
Thanks for the update. Now I know what to buy next in the States. This is getting ridiculous.
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BMG
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CARB approved A/C
| Quote: |
Thanks for any help,
CaboRon
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CR - Looks like you'll be using the new CA approved A/C on your trip south.
I think the world is run by C- students.
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MrBillM
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R-12 No Mas ?
Drove into San Felipe for my weekly supply run.
Mercado Baja- NO R-12. Empty spot on the shelf.
Mercado Sembrador - a couple dozen cans of R-134, but NO R-12.
Quien Sabe ?
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Minnow
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Wow, that is good news. Mexico is going green. I bet it can still be had in most cities though. And what was the original question?
Proud husband of a legal immigrant.
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bajalou
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I've always found it in the auto parts stores in San Felipe - I usually use Ramirez.
No Bad Days
\"Never argue with an idiot. People watching may not be able to tell the difference\"
\"The trouble with doing nothing is - how do I know when I\'m done?\"
Nomad Baja Interactive map
And in the San Felipe area - check out Valle Chico area |
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Minnow
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Yeah Bill, try the auto parts store, not the Mercado.
Proud husband of a legal immigrant.
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