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john
Junior Nomad
Posts: 73
Registered: 10-14-2004
Member Is Offline
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finally
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64855
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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GREAT!!!
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gringorio
Senior Nomad
Posts: 812
Registered: 4-10-2004
Location: Tucson, Arizona
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Great shot David and John! I've seen bighorn in the states, but never in Baja... 
Whatever happened to the scheme proposed by a few ejidos to sell a hunting license for 100k or more for one borrego to rich U.S. hunters?
gringorio
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Tomas Tierra
Super Nomad
Posts: 1281
Registered: 3-23-2005
Location: oxnard, ca
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Mood: Tengo Flojera
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not Baja Bighorns
US Big horns, Death Valley, CA
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Cypress
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7641
Registered: 3-12-2006
Location: on the bayou
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Mood: undecided
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Would pay $100k for a shot at Osama Ben Lauden, but not a bighorn anything.
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Sallysouth
Super Nomad
Posts: 1835
Registered: 10-9-2003
Location: Capo Beach
Member Is Offline
Mood: missing Baja...
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Greg, for info on the Bighorn Hunts, go to ty@elfuerte.com.
Happiness is just a Baja memory away...
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castaway$
Senior Nomad
Posts: 742
Registered: 7-31-2007
Location: Gold Hill, Oregon
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Mood: Fish on!
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My nephews son drew a Bighorn sheep tag here in Oregon last fall, up until then I never even seen a Borrego, What a magnificent creature! Excellent
photo's and topic, keep up the good work David I hope I will get a chance to see the sheep in Baja and possibly snap some photos.
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64855
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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| Quote: | Originally posted by castaway$
My nephews son drew a Bighorn sheep tag here in Oregon last fall, up until then I never even seen a Borrego, What a magnificent creature! Excellent
photo's and topic, keep up the good work David I hope I will get a chance to see the sheep in Baja and possibly snap some photos.
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Thanks!
It would seem that if you set up camp near an oasis then just be calm and keep your eyes open for them, you have a chance! They didn't make any noise
as they walked down to the water, along that cliff.
This was about 9 am, and we had just finished breakfast... Thanks to Baja Angel for seeing them as she was facing that direction.
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wilderone
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3824
Registered: 2-9-2004
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When I visited the pictographs outside Mision San Borja, we drove past a small campo. He told me that's where the borrego hunters camp, and that the
permits were very expensive and that most of the hunters were Mexican.
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wilderone
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3824
Registered: 2-9-2004
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From safari1.com: $39,000 and UP !!!
"Our friends in Mexico offer you the chance to complete your grand slam before the mountains grow too tall for you to climb and without having to wait
for a drawing! Desert bighorn sheep hunting permits are available throughout Sonora and Baja Sur. We work with only the finest outfitters in these
regions.
Hunting is typically done on private land that is strictly controlled to ensure that the quality and quantity of sheep is maintained. Rams are
typically in the 155-165 class. Permits are very limited, with prices ranging from $39,000 and up."
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Slowmad
Nomad
Posts: 243
Registered: 3-24-2005
Location: Alta California
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Probably goes without saying as we're literate desert campers here...
But the Baja-savvy never camp adjacent to a tinaja.
Good piece on Peninsular sheep hunting here:
http://www.animalsvoice.com/PAGES/writes/editorial/features/...
The only requirement for love or chorizo is confidence.
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
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Mood: optimistic
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SlowMad-------that is a bit exagerated, I am thinking. I have had loads of wildlife drink at Tinajas that I have camped near, paying little or no
attention to me and my wife. Sure, if you make lots of noise, and carry-on, then it will scare wildlife off, but my personal experiences is that
nothing is going to keep the wildlife from drinking in the wilderness of the desert unless you are really obnoxious and camp RIGHT BESIDE the water.
We stay 300 feet or more from the tinajas and have never seen problems. Our personal rule: if the birds come to drink, then most everything else
will, too. If they don't, then you are too close.
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64855
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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Barry is correct and this area really sees so few humans... we obviously didn't prevent the sheep from coming for a drink... they came to us,
afterall.
On another point, man is part of this planet, too. IF I don't intend to harm animals and if they aren't bothered by me... then we can share the place.
The grey whales don't seem to mind all the tourists who go out into the lagoon, since they come to the pangas, and even push their young in close to
interact with us humans! PERHAPS our camping next to the oasis kept away a mountain lion and gave the sheep an opportunety to drink, safely!!??
Give the animals some credit, let them decide!
By the way, it wasn't a tinaja, but a pond at the end of a year-round running stream.
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Slowmad
Nomad
Posts: 243
Registered: 3-24-2005
Location: Alta California
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300 feet is a good common sense distance.
The mountain lion protection comment is patently ludicrous.
And patently typical.
The only requirement for love or chorizo is confidence.
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
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Mood: optimistic
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The "mountain lion" comment by David could make some sense. Mountian lions are known to be very leary of humans, and would probably be much more
timid than the sheep when it comes to approaching the water hole, it seems to me.
It is all an educated guess, and depends on each animal, of course.
Personal attacks on posters just detract from any credibility associated with the "attacker", it seems to me.
Barry
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Slowmad
Nomad
Posts: 243
Registered: 3-24-2005
Location: Alta California
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After careful consideration of DK's "Up With People" platitudes, maybe he might benefit from some rudimentary desert camping advice.
Not being sanctimonious... we can all increase our desert knowledge.
After this, perhaps a new thread starting with the extremely basic (but oft ignored) "How to chite in the desert."
"Pick a campsite at least 100 feet from a stream and at least 200 feet from a spring or pond. Continual human presence will cause wildlife to abandon
desert water sources."
-Desert USA
"Protect and conserve scarce desert water resources. Camp at least 300 feet from isolated water sources to allow for wildlife access. Where possible,
carry your own drinking water. Wash well away from pools and springs.
Why it matters: Many desert animals, especially birds, depend on the plants around isolated water resources for food and habitat. Camping near water
sources damages plants and prevents wildlife from approaching. Small quantities of pollutants can make springs and ponds unusable for wildlife. Body
lotions and vehicle lubricants can remain in the water and harm aquatic life, which in egg or larval form may be invisible to the naked eye."
"Camp at least 300 feet from water sources to allow wildlife access. Where feasible, carry all the water you will need for drinking and personal
hygiene. Bathe and wash dishes away from desert water sources. Cool off in the shade, not in springs. Avoid driving or riding through desert water
sources."
-moab-utah.com
"Choosing a campsite: Don't camp close to water sources. As in all camping, your tent should be at least 200 feet away, and not in the path of obvious
game trails. Note that in some arid areas, the law requires you to camp at least + miles away from water. This helps prevent the pollution of scarce
water sources. And it ensures that you won't disturb the vulnerable animal life that depends on them."
-get outdoors
These are commonly known, widely held practices among desert aficionados.
The only requirement for love or chorizo is confidence.
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
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Mood: optimistic
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SlowMad----------you have been on a soapbox---now it is my turn------
Being a retired career National Park Service and BLM Ranger, I agree with all that is written above, knowing as I do the way advice is formulated by
the "experts". This is really the ultimate politically correct stuff given out, as always, to help control the really ignorant and most gross
visitors to our wild areas. Most folks know that most of the stuff said here is more or less true and good common sense, and would not violate these
practices. Unfortunately (??) almost all "rules", laws, and general advice is designed to control the few knotheads that are gross violators, and not
aimed at the majority of knowledgeable camper/users. The problem is that the "gross violator" seldom takes any rules, laws, or general advice to
heart, but it does give the LE officer the ability to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the violator knew better.
In short: Use common sense, be familiar with the general suggestions that you quote, and heed them, and go about enjoying the wild lands. But don't
use rules to pound folks over the heads with, which only serves to make folks resentful, and more careless, and more likely to do spiteful things
which harm wildlife and the environment. Most folks just hate to be told what to do, and what not to do, especially if they think that exageration is
in use, and thereby questionable.
OK, now I am preaching, and maybe drifting off subject----sorry about that.
I just hope that everybody gets to see the wild bighorns at least once in their lives, and I know that is what David K wants, too.
barry
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Slowmad
Nomad
Posts: 243
Registered: 3-24-2005
Location: Alta California
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Agreed, Barry.
With your past gig, I'm sure you've seen the range, from shrill finger-waggers to redneck dirtballs.
But have been seeing way more of the latter down below lately.
As more and more are being blindly directed to at-risk places via sites like this one, a little education goes a long way.
The only requirement for love or chorizo is confidence.
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: optimistic
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Yep-----information can be a dangerous thing-----just like showing archaeology sites on topo maps, 100 good people find the site and enjoy just seeing
it, and 1 or 2 jokers also come and destroy the site. It is always an on-going problem.
I just hate to see the 95% deprived just to control the 5%, but sometimes it is necessary, I suppose.
Thanks for your discussion-----that is what makes people aware of problems they might not notice, otherwise.
barry
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 18390
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
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Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Slowmad
300 feet is a good common sense distance.
The mountain lion protection comment is patently ludicrous.
And patently typical. |
Sheep are endangered and VERY skitish of humans. It is universally known that you should not camp near desert water holes that wildlife rely upon.
People who do camp at remote water holes are harming the wildlife, despite the excuses they profess.
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