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Sharksbaja
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5814
Registered: 9-7-2004
Location: Newport, Mulege B.C.S.
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Cardon Man
| Quote: | Originally posted by Sharksbaja
I'm interested on your take. You feel good about the taking of important apex animals. Is this for your own pleasure or to fuel your adventures for
your fans"?
I just think that you failed to consider your physical contribution to Baja.
You are obviously quite adept at locating and photographing wildlife. Can't THAT be your forte'? 
Why would you sacrifice these important dwindling species for fish and chips when your photos are all you need.
Save the sharks!
Save the billfish!
Save Baja!
because they can't speak for themselves |
In defense of EMAM...As I recall he/she is new to Baja and may not realize the importance of catch and release on threatened species. If you must
throw stones, throw them at the crew of the Awesome for allowing that Mako to be killed. If anyone should have a keen interest in preserving the
fishery it should be them. But as we all know, there probably isn't a charter boat in Baja that wouldn't have killed that shark.
I know some guys who commercially fish sharks off of Magdalena Bay. On my last trip up that way they were taking as many as 20 sharks a day. Mostly
mako and blues. And including juveniles just a few feet long. My point being...one dead mako on a sport boat doesn't hold a candle to the commercial
harvest.
In synopsis, sport fishing crews should be the ones who draw the line when it comes to taking threatened species and enforcing legal limits on other
gamefish like dorado and tuna. And regarding that marlin...if it was indeed killed, is that not a legal catch in Mexico? |
Alrighty then. Newbies who have no sense should be allowed one big mako and one big shark, just for that reason.
How rediculous defending someone based on that premise.
Now you are guilty for condoning it.
Nice to see so much concern and stewardship. Unfreakingbelievable. Nomads dissing their own environment, what next?
The justification amazes me.
DON\'T SQUINT! Give yer eyes a break!
Try holding down [control] key and toggle the [+ and -] keys
Viva Mulege!
Nomads\' Sunsets
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Cardon Man
Super Nomad
Posts: 1319
Registered: 8-28-2003
Location: Thetis Bank
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Mood: !Al Chingaso!
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Sharks...you're preaching to the converted. Perhaps you misinterpreted my point. You can't expect a newbie to know what's right and not right when it
comes to killing fish. Now, the crew of the charter boat is another matter. They damn well should know better. Yet, they gaffed that little Mako quick
as you can blink. How is EMAM to know that this harvest is ill-conceived? I stand by my assertion that those who operate and own sport fishing
operations bear a responsibility to set guidelines as to what can and cannot be killed regardless of legal limits. If they don't recognize the
threatened state of certain species how can you expect a newbie to know when it's wrong to kill?
I mentioned my friends who kill these critters commercialy. I don't think for a second what they do is good for the sharks. I only mentioned them to
illiustrate that EMAM is by no means to be blamed for the threatened state of these fantastic creatures. Other forces are at work and they deserve
your attention far more than any newbie on a charter boat.
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fishbuck
Banned
Posts: 5318
Registered: 8-31-2006
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Don't worry because that shark photo is fake! No sharks were hurt or killed in the making of this fantasy
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for." J. A. Shedd.
A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it. – Albert Einstein
"Life's a Beach... and then you Fly!" Fishbuck
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DianaT
Select Nomad
Posts: 10020
Registered: 12-17-2004
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| Quote: | Originally posted by fishbuck
Don't worry because that shark photo is fake! No sharks were hurt or killed in the making of this fantasy |
Fishbuck,
Curious---why do you think these are strictly photoshop fantasies? They are remarkable photos--????
I do hope you are correct only because I agree with the catch and release ideas---.
Thanks
Diane
[Edited on 4-4-2008 by jdtrotter]
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Sharksbaja
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5814
Registered: 9-7-2004
Location: Newport, Mulege B.C.S.
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Believe it.......
..........or not!
DON\'T SQUINT! Give yer eyes a break!
Try holding down [control] key and toggle the [+ and -] keys
Viva Mulege!
Nomads\' Sunsets
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fishbuck
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Posts: 5318
Registered: 8-31-2006
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The Marlin photos look real enough. Somebody caught a little marlin. But the shark looks fake. He admitted to using photoshop on it. Plus where are
any photos of the shark onboard?
And using a battleship to catch a tiny marlin. Tisk tisk.
Catch that marlin in a tin boat and I'll be impressed.
Mostly I'm just teasing and am not a photoshop expert. I just play one on the internet.
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for." J. A. Shedd.
A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it. – Albert Einstein
"Life's a Beach... and then you Fly!" Fishbuck
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Pescador
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3587
Registered: 10-17-2002
Location: Baja California Sur
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I keep wondering when we will no longer need to drag a marlin or sailfish up on the back deck for pictures. They increase their chance of survival by
about 80% when they are released in the water. This is a really destructive practice that really lessens the survival rate of a released fish. Course
everyone is happy cause they can take good pictures, mortally wound a fish, and say oh, but I released the fish. Try it next time without removing a
batch of slime which lets parasites and infection cause injury to an already weakened fish.
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Sharksbaja
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5814
Registered: 9-7-2004
Location: Newport, Mulege B.C.S.
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Good words Pescador.
DON\'T SQUINT! Give yer eyes a break!
Try holding down [control] key and toggle the [+ and -] keys
Viva Mulege!
Nomads\' Sunsets
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castaway$
Senior Nomad
Posts: 742
Registered: 7-31-2007
Location: Gold Hill, Oregon
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Mood: Fish on!
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Great shots EMAM! And if you want ot keep a fish every now and then to stock your freezer go for it. I fish quite a bit, hence 'castaway' I do keep
some fish BECAUSE I LIKE OT EAT FISH!!!! I guess could turn every fish loose and buy my fish from the commercial guys and become another ostrich
ignoring bycatch kill and waste or I can GO FISHING AND KEEP A FEW!!! I practice catch and release, I would guess I release 90% and keep only 10% for
my consumption or maybe give a little to my family. I would be willing to bet that the impact I have or sport fishermen in general have that do keep a
few fish has a much smaller impact on the fishery than the indiscriminate methods used by commercial fisherman who sell their catch to stores and
restaurants. Fish On EMAM and if we meet in Baja lets go catch some fish for tacos, but you have to bring the pacifico's.
Castaway$
P.S. I agree with Pescador if your going to snap pics do it in the water and don't stress the fish out, EMAM provided some great examples of shots 'in
the water'.
[Edited on 4-4-2008 by castaway$]
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Skipjack Joe
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8084
Registered: 7-12-2004
Location: Bahia Asuncion
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Any way you cut it, given that the mako is on the 10 most endangered species in the world it's hard to support anyone taking one home for dinner.
The image appears real to me as the shadows fall across the boat and fish in a natural manner. It's hard to understand, however, how a fish would be
upright like that without some support (could be a very lucky shot of a thrashing fish). I think the image is real with some 'cleaning' up in
photoshop.
As noted before the images are beautiful and well done.
[Edited on 4-4-2008 by Skipjack Joe]
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Sharksbaja
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5814
Registered: 9-7-2004
Location: Newport, Mulege B.C.S.
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| Quote: | Originally posted by castaway$
Great shots ENMAN! And if you want ot keep a fish every now and then to stock your freezer go for it. I fish quite a bit, hence 'castaway' I do keep
some fish BECAUSE I LIKE OT EAT FISH!!!! I guess could turn every fish loose and buy my fish from the commercial guys and become another ostrich
ignoring bycatch kill and waste or I can GO FISHING AND KEEP A FEW!!! I practice catch and release, I would guess I release 90% and keep only 10% for
my consumption or maybe give a little to my family. I would be willing to bet that the impact I have or sport fishermen in general have that do keep a
few fish has a much smaller impact on the fishery than the indiscriminate methods used by commercial fisherman who sell their catch to stores and
restaurants. Fish On ENMAN and if we meet in Baja lets go catch some fish for tacos, but you have to bring the pacifico's.
Castaway$
P.S. I agree with Pescador if your going to snap pics do it in the water and don't stress the fish out, ENMAN provided some great examples of shots
'in the water'. |
Please do not take billfish and sharks for tacos. I'll bring you beer.
DON\'T SQUINT! Give yer eyes a break!
Try holding down [control] key and toggle the [+ and -] keys
Viva Mulege!
Nomads\' Sunsets
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Cardon Man
Super Nomad
Posts: 1319
Registered: 8-28-2003
Location: Thetis Bank
Member Is Offline
Mood: !Al Chingaso!
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Pescador
I keep wondering when we will no longer need to drag a marlin or sailfish up on the back deck for pictures. They increase their chance of survival by
about 80% when they are released in the water. This is a really destructive practice that really lessens the survival rate of a released fish. Course
everyone is happy cause they can take good pictures, mortally wound a fish, and say oh, but I released the fish. Try it next time without removing a
batch of slime which lets parasites and infection cause injury to an already weakened fish. |
Very true. Also, the use of circle hooks would only help the survival rate of released fish by preventing them from being hooked deep. For the most
part, I have yet to see circle hooks being used by charter boats in Baja.
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EMAM
Nomad
Posts: 149
Registered: 2-2-2008
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First and foremost, I'd like to let everyone know that I wasnt the one catching any of the fish on this charter. I was asked to go out with an
individual who had chartered the boat to try and get some pictures for a website or a brochure that Congo's Awesome Charters is putting together.
The crew of the boat was very adamant about not keeping any of the fish, but the man who chartered the boat, wanted to keep all that was caught as he
was donating all the meat to the local elementary school in the town of Los Barriels.
I do have pictures of the the Mako on board, but it does have a gaff through it, which in my mind doesnt make for a good picture. 
In defence of the crew on the boat, they asked numerous times if the guy really wanted to keep the fish, and kept on him about letting them go, but he
said he wanted to donate to the school.
At the end of the day, I had a few good pictures, the school had two coolers full of meat to feed the kiddies for the rest of the month, and the
charter guys were mad about the taking of the marlin and especially the shark.
If anyone wants to see the images of the mako, I can PM them to you, but I didnt really want to past any on the web. I didnt know it was that
indangered, and if I would have known, I wouldnt have even taken any images of it at all!!!!
This is my first time in Baja, and like I said, I'm here mostly for the pictures, didnt mean to ruffle anyones feathers, or I should say scales
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fishbuck
Banned
Posts: 5318
Registered: 8-31-2006
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You're a good sport EMAM. The pictures are great. Looks like you guys had lots of fun.
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for." J. A. Shedd.
A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it. – Albert Einstein
"Life's a Beach... and then you Fly!" Fishbuck
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Sharksbaja
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5814
Registered: 9-7-2004
Location: Newport, Mulege B.C.S.
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I'm glad it wasn't you that caught it but you did help eat it, no?
| Quote: |
One Mako which was some of the best, most tender meat we've ever eaten in our lives. Breaded in Corn Meal and lightly fried up
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The educators in this picture are supposed to be the ones holding the knowledge not the fish. The students on the other hand will follow by example.
It's up to ourselves to be one.
Thanks for listening.
DON\'T SQUINT! Give yer eyes a break!
Try holding down [control] key and toggle the [+ and -] keys
Viva Mulege!
Nomads\' Sunsets
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EMAM
Nomad
Posts: 149
Registered: 2-2-2008
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The gentleman who had chartered the boat said he has been coming down to Baja for the last 8 years straight. Every year he tries to donate funds to
help the local elementary school.
He is very good friends with the principal and a few of the teachers, and told me that the Mexican government gives the school $50 per month towards
food for the children. If you want to save something, try helping the kids of this school and the parents who have to feed them!
As for eating the Mako, yes I did partake in the eating of it, but like I said, I'm a newbie to the Baja scene, and by no means a fisherman, so I
never knew that it was indangered.
Now if you want to go after someone who is putting a dent in the fish stock of our oceans, a group of commercial fisherman were pulling in their nets
a few days ago as we watched them toss about 10 3-4' hammerheads back into the water that had been caught in the nets!
Now every charter out on the water probably couldnt massacre the amount of fish these guys take in a day. That's who you should preaching to! As for
almost every charter we've spoken to down here, all have told us they practice Catch and Release and try to preach it to all who charter their boats.
Teresa who runs the Congo's Charter, pleaded with this guy to not keep any of the fish, and just let me take some photos for him to keep.
I was just a hired hand along for a day on the water.
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rts551
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6699
Registered: 9-5-2003
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Great photos EMAM... Good explanation...No need to defend yourself any further!
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Hook
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9010
Registered: 3-13-2004
Location: Sonora
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Mood: Inquisitive
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Pescador
I keep wondering when we will no longer need to drag a marlin or sailfish up on the back deck for pictures. They increase their chance of survival by
about 80% when they are released in the water. This is a really destructive practice that really lessens the survival rate of a released fish. Course
everyone is happy cause they can take good pictures, mortally wound a fish, and say oh, but I released the fish. Try it next time without removing a
batch of slime which lets parasites and infection cause injury to an already weakened fish. |
What would go a long ways towards alleviating this is if Gene Kira would agree to stop posting pics of this horrible means of "catch and release".
His site is far and away the most popular fishing site on Baja/Mexico and so every yahoo that dreams of seeing a billfish or shark in his "possession"
feels he has to get that shot and then submit it to show the whole world they caught and released a marlin.
I cringe every time I see one of these "humanitarian" shots of a billfish release on his site.
Sorry, but the lame defense that it is LEGAL is, well,..........lame.
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Cardon Man
Super Nomad
Posts: 1319
Registered: 8-28-2003
Location: Thetis Bank
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Mood: !Al Chingaso!
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Hook
Sorry, but the lame defense that it is LEGAL is, well,..........lame. |
When I brought up the point that it was a legal catch I wasn't trying to defend the killing of billfish. We are both in agreement that harvesting and
mishandling billfish or sharks is, in a word, lame.
At that point in the thread I was simply defending EMAM who is new to Baja and furthermore had done nothing illegal.
Make no mistake, I support catch and release and proper handling of all fish, threatened or not.
As for the taking of fish to feed the school kids...that's a noble thought. But the thought of mako and marlin as school lunch is a bit foolish. Why
not donate the cost of the charter boat to the school and be done with it? Those hundreds of dollars would buy a lot of non-threatened lunch. 
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fishbuck
Banned
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Registered: 8-31-2006
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Hundreds of dollars for that boat? Thousands maybe.
But it defeats the point of going fishing if you just donate the money to the school.
I know alot of you are more enlightened about conservation but these guys didn't do anything wrong. It wasn't illegal or immoral. Let people enjoy
their fish how ever they want. And maybe someday when they love fish like you do( and like I do) they may become elevated to a catcher/releaser and in
a humane safe way too.
But donating to the school for lunch is a great thing. I'm sure the kids loved the mako shark. It does taste good.
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for." J. A. Shedd.
A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it. – Albert Einstein
"Life's a Beach... and then you Fly!" Fishbuck
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