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Pescador
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Methinks that is not an orange mouth Corvina. first of all they are almost never found on the Sea of Cortez side and secondly, the tail fin is
pointed in the center on an Orange mouth. This tail is definately longer on the upper and lower sections whereas the Orangemouth is shorter and
noticeably pointed in the center. I would suggest that this is a White sea bass. You can verify by looking at both fish on www. mexfish.com and go
the fish identification photos.
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Taco de Baja
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Pescador
Methinks that is not an orange mouth Corvina. first of all they are almost never found on the Sea of Cortez side and secondly, the tail fin is
pointed in the center on an Orange mouth. This tail is definately longer on the upper and lower sections whereas the Orangemouth is shorter and
noticeably pointed in the center. I would suggest that this is a White sea bass. You can verify by looking at both fish on www. mexfish.com and go
the fish identification photos. |
I thought corVinas were thick in the Sea of Cortez.....
An easy way to ID WSB is that they have a ridge running the length of their bellys that other members of the croaker family do not have. CorBinas,
have the chin barbel.
http://www.dfg.ca.gov/marine/mspcont3.asp
Truth generally lies in the coordination of antagonistic opinions
-Herbert Spencer
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Skipjack Joe
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Salton Sea article
I found this interesting. The original studies on introducing fish into the Sea. How the mindset has changed. Something like 50 species, including
salmon and bonefish. With the exception of 3 or 4 all failed. Not only that they introduced their food, e.g. polychaete worms, snails, crustaceans.
Heck, they created an ecosystem from scratch.
http://content.cdlib.org/xtf/view?docId=kt5f59n7qs&brand=calisphere&doc.view=entire_text
I agree with you Jim, it doesn't look an orangemouth corvina. These corvina species have a lot of similarities at times. I've caught corvina with
yellow mouths right in SLC that I think were shortfins like the others.
Here's a distribution of corvina species all with the same genus. Maybe the speciation didn't occur that long ago.
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pascuale
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White seabass, but Corvina are all over the northern sea of cortez. Especially the backbay at Gonzaga
http://www.bloodydecks.com/forums/baja-mexico-fishing-report...
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baitcast
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Pescador For years and years,we caught what I thought were corvina from Pueriticos to BOLA,sometimes 20 or 30 at a time and all had orange mouths
and fangs now your telling me those were WSB
Saw some that were 12# 15#,the shortfin record is around 10#.
WSB taken on poppers in 4' of water!! come on.
Rob
Still like your stuff
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baitcast
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Shortfin
Check out this corvina taken a few days ago,Mission Bay SD,record size I,m thinkin........Shortfin that is
v
On a Spook
[Edited on 4-10-2008 by baitcast]
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baitcast
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The gill netters and seiners take corvina by the hunderds from San Felipe south to who knows where!
Rob
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Pescador
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Corvina yes, but not orange mouthed Corvina. I catch a lot of corvina in this area from Punta Chivato to Santa Rosalia, but none of them are
Orangemouthed Corvina. The corvina we catch locally have two fangs or sharp teeth and I can not tell from this picture whether or not this fish has
those two fangs. I am only going on the coloring. The only thing I am sure of is that the pictured fish is definately not an orangemouthed corvina.
On the Pacific side by La Bocana and down south to Bahia Magdelena I have caught numerous orangies.
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baitcast
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What your saying then is that the corvina in the north end are shortfin,how can you account for the size they attain? the record for shortfin is
around 10#but these norte guys get much larger?
Rob
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Skipjack Joe
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The Salton Sea report says that the orangemouth in the Sea were introduced from fish caught in San Felipe in the 50's.
The Baja Catch says that the only orangemouth in baja are found in the northern cortez. None on the pacific side.
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Pescador
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Since I am not a fish scientist, I do not know if this is a Shortfin Corvina or not. If so, it could well be a very large version of that fish. The
markings look very much like a Shortfin. The fish was caught around the Punta Chivato area which is just south of the picture below which came from
Jean Mori from San Lucas Cove. I just know that it is definately not an Orangemouth.
[Edited on 4-10-2008 by Pescador]
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David K
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Corbinas are found in the gulf and Pacific... these are the fish (relted to croakers) with the mouth that points down for bottom feeding and the barb
on the lower lip/ chin... One of the best eating fish IMO.
Catch on sandy bottoms very near shore... in the breakers on the Pacific... use mussel, clam, cut bait (grunion), or sand crabs.
Corvinas are also found in both the gulf and Pacific, but are best known around San Felipe and were the prime species selected for introduction into
the Salton Sea... which is a stinky dead sea now!
The corvina has a mouth in front, bites lures... surface fishing... the name sounds the same in Spanish as corbina, but is a totally different fish...
but also good eating.
Here's a corbina up close:
[Edited on 4-10-2008 by David K]
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David K
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The previous photo was from Gene Kira's site mexfish.com fish ID page.
Here is one of my mom with a double hook up of corbinas in 1967 at the sandy bay south of San Felipe now called Bahia Santa Maria:
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baitcast
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Thank you David for straighting us out,but what does a corbina have to do with shortfin and orangemouth corvina
Rob
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Skipjack Joe
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That's a definite shortfin in the picture to me, pescador. I've caught the same fish in the same place with the same boat by the looks of it.
Anyway, even though it's a shortfin it has some orange in the mouth area and a bit on the fins. So I don't think coloration is very dependable. The
fish doesn't seem to have that distinguishable feature in the tail fin.
I suspect that if either one of us had caught more (or any in my case) orangemouths we wouldn't have trouble telling which is which. There's nothing
like personal experience.
Found this image of guys holding up orangemouths and although it's far away you can see the small protrusions of the tailfin in each fish. Otherwise
the color really doesn't look much different than your fish. This picture was taken a Punta Final (bordering Gonzaga on the south) in 2004.
P.S. in Baja Catch he states the fish is only in the north end of cortez but on his website he says it's throughout the cortez. Go figure.
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baitcast
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OK
I love them both to catch and eat,I will also mention again the must fun to catch these guys is with topwater in the morn,evening and at
night,poppers,jerkbaits and spooks.
Pescador I,ve been a fan of yours for several years now,since you gave me alot of info on SLC a few years back,this subject just happens to be
about one of my favorite fish,no harm intended
No coments on that SD,Mission Bay fish? anybody know how long they have been there?
I noticed last year they were catching a few,but this year they are knocking them dead,had no idea they were this far north!
Rob
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David K
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| Quote: | Originally posted by baitcast
Thank you David for straighting us out,but what does a corbina have to do with shortfin and orangemouth corvina
Rob |
Well, I read the whole thread... as you would need to do to understand why I added photos and details on the California Corbina (note Sharksbaja and
Taco de Baja's posts, above).
The corbina does indeed live in the Gulf of California and not just the Pacific and it is related to the croaker and is good eating, too. The corvina
is a totally different fish, but also is found in both the gulf and Pacific.
======================================================
FROM http://mexfish.com :
California Corbina, California King Croaker, California Whiting
Lambe Berrugato
(Menticirrhus undulatus)
The California Corbina is characterized by its elongated, slightly compressed body that is gray with incandescent reflections. The California Corbina
has a long head, a small mouth with an identifying single barbell, a characteristic wavy diagonal line on its sides, and large scales.
The California Corbina has only one, weak anal spine, and its pectoral fins are black. The other fins vary in color from pale to dark. The caudal fin
is S-shaped. The California Corbina might be confused with a series of other croakers, including the Highfin King Croaker, the King Croaker, the Paita
King Croaker, and the Panama King Croaker, all of which are of the Genus Menticirrhus and found in Mexican waters, and the Yellowfin Croaker, Umbrina
roncador.
However, only the Yellowfin Croaker (concave caudal fin, yellow fins, and oblique brown lines on its sides) also has a barbell.
The California Corbina is a member of the Sciaenidae or Croaker and Drum Family that are accessible and can be caught out of the surf. In Mexican
waters, the California Corbina is found all along the Pacific side of the Baja California peninsula, and throughout the Sea of Cortez.
==========================================================
How here are some of the corvinas of Mexico:
Shortfin Corvina, Shortfin Weakfish
Corvinata Aletacorta, Corvina de Aleta Corta
(Cynoscion parvipinnis)
In Mexican waters, the Shortfin Covina is found along the Pacific side of the Baja California Sur peninsula and throughout the Gulf of California.
However, it is absent south of Mazatlan along the mainland coast. The Shortfin Corvina is found in the first 150 feet of the water column, normally in
shallow coastal waters over sandy or mud bottoms. The Shortfin Covina is reported to reach 24 inches in length. This species is caught primarily on
cut bait (clams, squid, mullet, etc.) with small hooks and bottom rigs. It is viewed by locals to be excellent table fare.
Note: The Shortfin Corvina was unsuccessfully transplanted into the Salton Sea in 1952.
====================================================
Orangemouth Corvina, Orangemouth Weakfish
Corvinata Totoaba
(Cynoscion xanthulus)
In Mexican waters the Orangemouth Corvina is found north of Acapulco along the coast of the mainland and throughout the Sea of Cortez. Note: The
Orangemouth Corvina was successfully introduced into the Salton Sea in the early 1950’s where it has thrived.
======================================================
Gulf Weakfish
Corvina del Golfo
(Cynoscion othonopterum)
Gulf Weakfish is only found within the confines of the Sea of Cortez, being absent from all other Mexican waters. The Gulf Weakfish is generally found
in the first 100 feet of the water column and is reported to reach just over two feet in length. It is viewed by locals as excellent table fare.
The Gulf Weakfish is easily confused with the White Weakfish or White Seabass, Atractoscion nobilis (ridge along its belly; inner base of pectoral
fins with a black blotch). The Gulf Weakfish is also quite similar in appearance to a series of other corvinas and weakfish, including the Orangemouth
Weakfish, Cynoscion xanthulum, the Shortfin Weakfish, Cynoscion parvipinnis, the Totoaba, Totoaba macdonaldi, the Yellowmouth Weakfish, Cynoscion
squamipinnis and the Yellowtail Weakfish, Cynoscion stolzmanni, but each of these fish have straight or pointed caudal fins.
================================================================
MUCH more details at Mexfish.com on this page find all the fish links: http://mexfish.com/fish/fish.htm
[Edited on 4-10-2008 by David K]
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Skipjack Joe
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Nothing about SD, baitcast, but I've done some more research on Salton Sea.
Apparently the sea has fish dieoffs every summer due to high temperatures causing algal blooms that deplete the oxygen level.
Anyway the last one was so severe it seems to have wiped out all of the orangemouth corvina and sargo. The tilapia are bouncing back but nobody has
caught the other two species in about a year and a half. Usually the orangemouths make a comeback after the tilapia as they feed on them, but not this
time.
The tilapia fishing is reported to be very good right now.
Many of the IGFA orangemouth world records were made in the 80's in the Salton Sea.
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baitcast
Super Nomad
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Igor I went into the IGFA to check on corvina records and they want money
is there no other places to check these things.
Rob
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David K
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
Nothing about SD, baitcast, but I've done some more research on Salton Sea.
Apparently the sea has fish dieoffs every summer due to high temperatures causing algal blooms that deplete the oxygen level.
Anyway the last one was so severe it seems to have wiped out all of the orangemouth corvina and sargo. The tilapia are bouncing back but nobody has
caught the other two species in about a year and a half. Usually the orangemouths make a comeback after the tilapia as they feed on them, but not this
time.
The tilapia fishing is reported to be very good right now.
Many of the IGFA orangemouth world records were made in the 80's in the Salton Sea. |
Is any fish caught in the Salton Sea safe to eat (what with the high Selenium levels and other ag chemicals)?
The place we used to go when I was a kid is a ghost town with dead fish remains for a beach instead of sand!
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