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comitan
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4177
Registered: 3-27-2004
Location: La Paz
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Mood: mellow
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Sharks this should be another thread, but are you feeling the pinch because of the fuel prices?
Strive For The Ideal, But Deal With What\'s Real.
Every day is a new day, better than the day before.(from some song)
Lord, Keep your arm around my shoulder and your hand over my mouth.
“The sincere pursuit of truth requires you to entertain the possibility that everything you believe to be true may in fact be false”
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Sharksbaja
Ya think? Maybe they, the media, are really jealous of you crafty border people and this is a good way to instill fear. You know how that works!
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OOPS...You're on the wrong side of the border. This is a Mexico thing. I can't begin to imagine the Mexican media being jealous of "us crafty border
people". Oh, and thanks for not saying "Ilk". I hate that word. It reminds me of the word,"Puke" and, you know how that works.
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MexicoGringoGuy
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Posts: 159
Registered: 6-20-2008
Location: Tijuana, Centro/Rio
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I'm Not sure the Mexico Subsidises it's gas as much as the fact that its a state ran oil company so Billions of Dollars arent going to Oil
companies..thats why the price is cheaper...??? Granted, It would probably be even cheaper if the government didnt steal the money from what little
profits they do get! I have heard that Pemex has been the governments cash co for years, BUT instead of putting profits back into the compnay, Now
its so outdated they cant improve themself
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bill erhardt
Super Nomad
Posts: 1372
Registered: 4-2-2005
Location: Loreto, BCS
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fulano........ You obviously have not spent much time in Washington, D.C.
| Quote: | Originally posted by fulano
"The United States is a meritocracy. In a meritocracy, usually appointments are made and responsibilities are given based on demonstrated talent and
ability." |
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Jack Swords
Super Nomad
Posts: 1095
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: Nipomo, CA/La Paz, BCS
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Mexico does subsidize gasoline along with some other commodities; see
http://banderasnews.com/0805/edat-mexgamble.htm
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fulano
Banned
Posts: 496
Registered: 3-31-2008
Location: Ramona, CA
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| Quote: | Originally posted by bill erhardt
fulano........ You obviously have not spent much time in Washington, D.C.
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I'm talking about appointed administrators. The great sea of technocrats that run the country day-to-day. In Washington you
find mainly elected politicians. The good thing is that the politicians get voted out of office every few years. The bad
thing is that new politicians get voted into office every few years.
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bill erhardt
Super Nomad
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fulano..... If you think that the appointed administrators, the "great sea of technocrats", as you would have it, that run the US of A day-to-day are
appointed solely based on merit, to the exclusion of wealth, class, and connections then you live in a dream world. They are appointed, after all, by
the very elected politicians that you disparage. Many, as you describe their Mexican counterparts, ".....tend to be very mediocre". And as to
throwing stones at government bureaucrats "putting their feet in their mouth all the time, because they are not smart", where did you say you are
from?
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 18390
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
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Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by bill erhardt
fulano..... If you think that the appointed administrators, the "great sea of technocrats", as you would have it, that run the US of A day-to-day are
appointed solely based on merit, to the exclusion of wealth, class, and connections then you live in a dream world. They are appointed, after all, by
the very elected politicians that you disparage. Many, as you describe their Mexican counterparts, ".....tend to be very mediocre". And as to
throwing stones at government bureaucrats "putting their feet in their mouth all the time, because they are not smart", where did you say you are
from? |
the "best" appointees/cronies come with nicknames, such as Brownie, Skooter, Turd Blossom, Big Time and Rummy
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Bajaboy
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Posts: 4375
Registered: 10-9-2003
Location: Bahia Asuncion, BCS, Mexico
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Ah, if you're not getting market value for a commodity then you're are subsidizing it...end of story.
Zac
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fulano
Banned
Posts: 496
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| Quote: | Originally posted by bill erhardt
fulano..... If you think that the appointed administrators, the "great sea of technocrats", as you would have it, that run the US of A day-to-day are
appointed solely based on merit, to the exclusion of wealth, class, and connections then you live in a dream world. They are appointed, after all, by
the very elected politicians that you disparage. Many, as you describe their Mexican counterparts, ".....tend to be very mediocre". And as to
throwing stones at government bureaucrats "putting their feet in their mouth all the time, because they are not smart", where did you say you are
from? |
I come from that place where we debate with facts, not sweeping, unsupported generalizations. If you would care to provide support for your
assertions, we would welcome it. If you just want to tell us the system works the way you say it does because everybody but me knows it, you will not
get very far with me.
To start you down the path of enlightenment, here is a study by some Mexican graduate students which compares and contrasts the US and Mexican Civil
Service Systems:
http://www.cmq.edu.mx/docinvest/document/DI80301.pdf
Kindly present some kind of authoritative support for your rebuttal arguments. Thanks in advance.
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bill erhardt
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Location: Loreto, BCS
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Ah, fulano...... guide to the path of enlightenment.
"You are doing a heckuva job, Brownie."
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bill erhardt
Super Nomad
Posts: 1372
Registered: 4-2-2005
Location: Loreto, BCS
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And, certainly no sweeping generalizations from you.
| Quote: | Originally posted by fulano
"Let me tell you some thing about Mexico, in case nobody has figured it out...and I am not trying to be disparaging of the Mexican people -- who are
good people for the most part.
The United States is a meritocracy. In a meritocracy, usually appointments are made and responsibilities are given based on demonstrated talent and
ability. Mexico is not a meritocracy. It is a mixture of a plutocracy (wealth), oligarchy (class privilege) and nepotism (family connections). So in
Mexico, you find that people in very high place of authority tend to be very mediocre...yeomen at best.
So, you get these people putting their feet in their mouths all the time........." |
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DianaT
Select Nomad
Posts: 10020
Registered: 12-17-2004
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| Quote: | Originally posted by fulano
| Quote: | Originally posted by bill erhardt
fulano..... If you think that the appointed administrators, the "great sea of technocrats", as you would have it, that run the US of A day-to-day are
appointed solely based on merit, to the exclusion of wealth, class, and connections then you live in a dream world. They are appointed, after all, by
the very elected politicians that you disparage. Many, as you describe their Mexican counterparts, ".....tend to be very mediocre". And as to
throwing stones at government bureaucrats "putting their feet in their mouth all the time, because they are not smart", where did you say you are
from? |
I come from that place where we debate with facts, not sweeping, unsupported generalizations. If you would care to provide support for your
assertions, we would welcome it. If you just want to tell us the system works the way you say it does because everybody but me knows it, you will not
get very far with me.
To start you down the path of enlightenment, here is a study by some Mexican graduate students which compares and contrasts the US and Mexican Civil
Service Systems:
http://www.cmq.edu.mx/docinvest/document/DI80301.pdf
Kindly present some kind of authoritative support for your rebuttal arguments. Thanks in advance. |
Fulano,
That is an interesting paper---compares Mexico to one county in Ohio. And, it could be easily used to support both sides of the argument---it is like
most academic papers written by grad students along with professors --
A thesis is set forth----one that the professors know is probably "true"
Reseach is done and "relavant" research is used. The research that supports the thesis. The same original documents and research can be and is read
differently by different people---interpreted differently.
Grad students do not disagree with professors, not if they want their advanced degree.
In this study, it talks about politics being in both systems. And, again, it is talking about the basic Civil Service programs at a county level.
It does NOT talk about the political appointees who ARE appointed to be the heads of these Civil Service agencies. They are very different from the
career civil servant who stays for years.
Besides, the focus of the paper is the PROBLEMS with both systems. Again, it could be used in many different ways.
Back to looking for poison meds from China.
Diane
[Edited on 6-22-2008 by jdtrotter]
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fulano
Banned
Posts: 496
Registered: 3-31-2008
Location: Ramona, CA
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| Quote: | Originally posted by bill erhardt
And, certainly no sweeping generalizations from you.
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...and I also posted a supporting document. Meanwhile, you have posted nothing on subject, just an ad hominem attack on me. Do you intend to post
anything to support your position, Bill?
I can wait forever.
In the meantime, here is some more reading from a think tank , e.g. not graduate students:
"In Mexico, although the majority of the organizations possess formal procedures to publicize recruitment, in actual practice it is personal contacts
and informal channels that constitute the dominant paths toward access to public employment. Membership in cliques located close to power ends up
being the determining factor."
"In Mexico, a formal system exists for the evaluation of performance, which includes planning, follow-up and performance evaluation, as well as
feedback to the employee, but it is not applied in an even minimally systematic manner."
"In Mexico, post descriptions clearly define the activities and technical capability requirements they involve, but are rarely employed to hire or
promote individuals."
"In Mexico, the most important criteria for hiring and promoting staff, when these decisions aren’t purely arbitrary, are the number of years of
seniority, knowledge of the Administration and loyalty. Considerations of technical capability and mastery of skills and aptitudes are secondary. At
the same time, the politicalization of public employment produces a high rotation, with the consequent decapitalization effect."
"In Mexico, the allocation of economic incentives is highly subjective and linked to discretionary decisions of the superior, without appearing, in
general, to be aimed at stimulating performance. The dominant incentives for trusted staffers are related to membership in cliques and to maintaining
the confidence of the chief. For the lower staff, there is a prevalence of the labor organization logic that relates professional stability and
progress to membership, rather than to performance or learning."
http://idbdocs.iadb.org/wsdocs/getdocument.aspx?docnum=62366...
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fulano
Banned
Posts: 496
Registered: 3-31-2008
Location: Ramona, CA
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| Quote: | Originally posted by jdtrotter
Fulano,
That is an interesting paper---compares Mexico to one county in Ohio. And, it could be easily used to support both sides of the argument---it is like
most academic papers written by grad students along with professors -- |
Diane, I hope by now you noticed you have created a list of items that could be wrong with the referenced material, but you
did not actually provide any specific facts as to where it is actually wrong.
Do you have any facts to present?
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toneart
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4901
Registered: 7-23-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: Skeptical
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| Quote: | Originally posted by fulano
| Quote: | Originally posted by jdtrotter
Fulano,
That is an interesting paper---compares Mexico to one county in Ohio. And, it could be easily used to support both sides of the argument---it is like
most academic papers written by grad students along with professors -- |
Diane, I hope by now you noticed you have created a list of items that could be wrong with the referenced material, but you
did not actually provide any specific facts as to where it is actually wrong.
Do you have any facts to present? |
How about experience in reading academic papers? Common, relax a little on your fact requirement, Fulano. It is good when facts are presented,
but in this forum there is room for opinions expressed. If you back all your statements by "fact", then you hold that superior opinion of yourself.
Some others may be impressed.
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DianaT
Select Nomad
Posts: 10020
Registered: 12-17-2004
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by toneart
| Quote: | Originally posted by fulano
| Quote: | Originally posted by jdtrotter
Fulano,
That is an interesting paper---compares Mexico to one county in Ohio. And, it could be easily used to support both sides of the argument---it is like
most academic papers written by grad students along with professors -- |
Diane, I hope by now you noticed you have created a list of items that could be wrong with the referenced material, but you
did not actually provide any specific facts as to where it is actually wrong.
Do you have any facts to present? |
How about experience in reading academic papers? Common, relax a little on your fact requirement, Fulano. It is good when facts are presented,
but in this forum there is room for opinions expressed. If you back all your statements by "fact", then you hold that superior opinion of yourself.
Some others may be impressed. |
Toneart, you are so correct.
"Facts" yes those illusive little things. Even in writing about history, maybe 5% facts---
Regarding this thread, the only "fact" is that the official in Mexico City said something about the need to limit the selling of gas to -----
well, wait a minute. Did he really say exactly what was written? Was there other meaning behind his words? Was it translated perfectly with all
intent intact?
Only other possible fact in this thread is that politics are alive and well in the US and in Mexico.
And, as far as using "Think Tanks" for facts, well, which "Think Tank" is correct?
Opinion? Yes, we have lots of that around here.
Diane
[Edited on 6-22-2008 by jdtrotter]
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toneart
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4901
Registered: 7-23-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: Skeptical
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| Quote: |
Toneart, you are so correct.
"Facts" yes those illusive little things. Even in writing about history, maybe 5% facts---
Regarding this thread, the only "fact" is that the official in Mexico City said something about the need to limit the selling of gas to -----
well, wait a minute. Did he really say exactly what was written? Was there other meaning behind his words? Was it translated perfectly with all
intent intact?
Only other possible fact in this thread is that politics are alive and well in the US and in Mexico.
And, as far as using "Think Tanks" for facts, well, which "Think Tank" is correct?
Opinion? Yes, we have lots of that around here.
Diane
[Edited on 6-22-2008 by jdtrotter] |
Thanks, Diane.
I already have too many facts crowding my addled brain. I am now going outside and bang my head against the house. I hope to come back to this forum
free of the clutter.
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Gadget
Senior Nomad
Posts: 851
Registered: 9-10-2006
Location: Point Loma CA
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Mood: Blessed with another day
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| Quote: | [
Sounds like the United States for the last seven years.
Diane |
You got that right, on both sides of the isle.
We can't claim to have the sharpest tools in the shed running things at any level of the gov anymore.
But heh, WE keep electing them 
"Mankind will not be judged by their faults, but by the direction of their lives." Leo Giovinetti
See you in Baja
http://www.LocosMocos.com
Gadget |
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fulano
Banned
Posts: 496
Registered: 3-31-2008
Location: Ramona, CA
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| Quote: | Originally posted by jdtrotter
well, wait a minute. Did he really say exactly what was written? Was there other meaning behind his words? Was it translated perfectly with all
intent intact? |
Gee, maybe we can further obfuscate the realization that you can only post innuendos as responses by further debating the meaning of "meaning"?
Do you guys have any other red herrings you want to run through this thread to hide your lack of depth? Perhaps we can debate how many angels can
dance on the head of a pin? The true meaning of the "immaculate conception"? Global warming?
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