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Dave
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6005
Registered: 11-5-2002
Member Is Offline
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When you paid the rent did you get a factura? Legal receipts with a tax id #?
If not, here's what I'd do:
Contact the rental agent and ask him/her for tax ID #'s. That you're thinking of retaining an attorney and inquiring at SAT (Mexico's IRS) to see if
the landlord has paid taxes on income received.
I'll bet you get your deposit back. 
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Bob and Susan
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8813
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Mulege BCS on the BAY
Member Is Offline
Mood: Full Time Residents
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alot of landloards don't understand "wear and tear" and alot of renters don't understand "damage"
damage can be anything from holes in the walls for pictures to missing fixtures.
normal wear and tear is scratches and paint
without pictures you're screwed
whitout you telling us what the owner is actually saying you did during this year we cannot say weather you are getting screwed or not
telling us its just bs doesn't "cut it"
witness staments won't do any good in court
at least in the usa
thats can be deemed "hearsay"
where was the deposit paid USA or Mexico
if you mailed the deposit to the USA then the court stuff can be done in the USA
otherwise you're screwed
mexico...just walk away
remember in the USA you FIRST need to send the owner a letter of demand
certified mail with a signature required
if he doesnt sign that your proof you attempted to notify him
when that is not addressed you need to take him to court
we used to have rentals...pictures....
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capt. mike
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8085
Registered: 11-26-2002
Location: Bat Cave
Member Is Offline
Mood: Sling time!
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Dennis i love your style!
| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
When all else fails, pay someone to burn his house down to the ground after they plant a bunch of meth-lab equipment nearby. |
you really crack me up man.
hey - why is Coatlallope banned?? must have missed it.
formerly Ordained in Rev. Ewing\'s Church by Mail - busted on tax fraud.......
Now joined L. Ron Hoover\'s church of Appliantology
\"Remember there is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over....\"
www.facebook.com/michael.l.goering |
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tim40
Senior Nomad
Posts: 574
Registered: 3-29-2004
Location: Manhattan Beach
Member Is Offline
Mood: There yet?
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Thank you for all of the input and advide.
A little more information.
1. Shame on us, but we were raised to trust people first, even in business. It has worked well most of the time in that we are happily retired in
our mid-40's.
2. The red flags with the owners went up early when we moved in: a. many of the items that were in place during the pre-rental inspection were
removed and locked in their storage closet (bedding, towels, microwave, TV, hammocks, shade umbrella.....etc). b. The swimming pool looked like it
was part of the back lot for the filming of the next release of Swamp Thing. C. Inside of the house was so dirty and growing mold that we spent
greater than 2 weeks cleaning the house (to include the use of a couple of assistants)......At the time we reported all to the real estate folks and
mostly just rolled with it as we were desperate to begin some decompression....the real estate company ended up purchasing the bedding and TV and we
purchased about 1.5K of items that were to be included with the home.
3. The types of things they are claiming I don't think we could have photographed.... a. House is full of bugs and ticks so they need to perform a
complete fumigation (our dog has been an inside dog that receives bi-weekly baths and is treated monthly for flees and ticks....we have never seen a
single flee or tick on him. b. we chipped the glass dining room table....shame on us, this small, less than 1/2 inch chip was there when we moved
in, but with all of the other crap we took it as normal wear and tear. c. the pool has some black mold growing in some of the grout....this is
possible as I personally spent 2 days in the pool when I moved in scrubbing it clean as possible....they claim we created this through the use of a
pool cover. Here is the kicker, our lease is specific that our only responsibility to the pool was for the cost of chemicals....in our 11 month
lease their pool up keep was so poor that we lost use of the pool for greater than 2 months. d. our dog scratched the bottom of the outside of the
entrance door.....our dog was never on the outside to scratch the door....and to be honest our 15 year old dog is too lazy to scratch his own
ass...let alone a door that he would not allow himself to be caught dead on the outside of. e. we wrecked 3 leather topped mexican style end
tables....shame on us, but this must be the exact same that we had to buy table cloths for as they were in poor repair and eye sores when we moved
in...... The net is the only thing we paid specific attention to on the pre-move-in inspection where those items listed on the inventory.....
Now, I repeat, we left the home in much better condition that we rented it in....but for discussion purposes even if we could be blamed for 100% of
the above it does not even come close to 25% of the deposit.
We do have emails that we shared back and forth at the beginning and towards the end with the leasing agent that will assist us with our case. Our
plan as of now is to use our Mexican attorney to write the leasing company a letter of demand, assist with the appropriate notification of Profecta,
file near immediately in small claims court as we are all CA residents.....and then if something bad should happen to the home, we have no idea how it
happened.
When searching for the end of your rainbow you only have until dusk....
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tim40
Senior Nomad
Posts: 574
Registered: 3-29-2004
Location: Manhattan Beach
Member Is Offline
Mood: There yet?
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Bob and Susan, we definitely appreciate the inputs. We have made a great deal of money over the years on rentals...we understand wear and tear and
the like. In fact our Manhattan Beach home was rented out while we were in Mexico.....lets see, broken piano bench leg, broken dresser, a few picture
holes in the wall, stain on one of the sofas, and such a thick layer of dust and dog hair we hired two cleaning folks that spent 12 manhours cleaning
a 1500 sq ft home.....total cost to the renters deposit 0, zip, nada....wear and tear in our liberal view........ In Mex we broke nothing and left the
house spotless....paid for 2.5 days of deep cleaning so it would be left better than received.....
We are not certain at this minute how we will position our case.... It is too simple to us.....but I also know the 'legal' system is not simple... We
believe with the evidence
we do have and the items the list on the inventory not being of issue, we should be fine after A MAJOR HEADACHE!
When searching for the end of your rainbow you only have until dusk....
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Bruce R Leech
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6796
Registered: 9-20-2004
Location: Ensenada formerly Mulege
Member Is Offline
Mood: A lot cooler than Mulege
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| Quote: | Originally posted by tim40
Thank you for all of the input and advide.
A little more information.
1. Shame on us, but we were raised to trust people first, even in business. It has worked well most of the time in that we are happily retired in
our mid-40's.
2. The red flags with the owners went up early when we moved in: a. many of the items that were in place during the pre-rental inspection were
removed and locked in their storage closet (bedding, towels, microwave, TV, hammocks, shade umbrella.....etc). b. The swimming pool looked like it
was part of the back lot for the filming of the next release of Swamp Thing. C. Inside of the house was so dirty and growing mold that we spent
greater than 2 weeks cleaning the house (to include the use of a couple of assistants)......At the time we reported all to the real estate folks and
mostly just rolled with it as we were desperate to begin some decompression....the real estate company ended up purchasing the bedding and TV and we
purchased about 1.5K of items that were to be included with the home.
3. The types of things they are claiming I don't think we could have photographed.... a. House is full of bugs and ticks so they need to perform a
complete fumigation (our dog has been an inside dog that receives bi-weekly baths and is treated monthly for flees and ticks....we have never seen a
single flee or tick on him. b. we chipped the glass dining room table....shame on us, this small, less than 1/2 inch chip was there when we moved
in, but with all of the other crap we took it as normal wear and tear. c. the pool has some black mold growing in some of the grout....this is
possible as I personally spent 2 days in the pool when I moved in scrubbing it clean as possible....they claim we created this through the use of a
pool cover. Here is the kicker, our lease is specific that our only responsibility to the pool was for the cost of chemicals....in our 11 month
lease their pool up keep was so poor that we lost use of the pool for greater than 2 months. d. our dog scratched the bottom of the outside of the
entrance door.....our dog was never on the outside to scratch the door....and to be honest our 15 year old dog is too lazy to scratch his own
burro...let alone a door that he would not allow himself to be caught dead on the outside of. e. we wrecked 3 leather topped mexican style end
tables....shame on us, but this must be the exact same that we had to buy table cloths for as they were in poor repair and eye sores when we moved
in...... The net is the only thing we paid specific attention to on the pre-move-in inspection where those items listed on the inventory.....
Now, I repeat, we left the home in much better condition that we rented it in....but for discussion purposes even if we could be blamed for 100% of
the above it does not even come close to 25% of the deposit.
We do have emails that we shared back and forth at the beginning and towards the end with the leasing agent that will assist us with our case. Our
plan as of now is to use our Mexican attorney to write the leasing company a letter of demand, assist with the appropriate notification of Profecta,
file near immediately in small claims court as we are all CA residents.....and then if something bad should happen to the home, we have no idea how it
happened. |
you are not going to get anything out of these folks
Bruce R Leech
Ensenada
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by capt. mike
hey - why is Coatlallope banned?? must have missed it. |
Wasn't aware of it. She was posting on this thread last night sounding very much the lawyer that she is. I'm keeping a safe and prudent distance.
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Santiago
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3512
Registered: 8-27-2003
Member Is Offline
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I have a friend who often rents and he does not pay the last month's rent when he thinks the landlord is going to get stoopid. He claims he gets a
prompt and reasonable walk-thru.
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tim40
Senior Nomad
Posts: 574
Registered: 3-29-2004
Location: Manhattan Beach
Member Is Offline
Mood: There yet?
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Believe we will have much more success that you some might think. I was delighted to confirm this morning that they can be brought to small claims
court in California. I have emails that convey the post inspection with the leasing agent. It does indeed appear the government is interested in
the tax paying hx of the agency and the owners for this property...... It may take months, but I am retired and sometimes f'heads need to be dealt
with even when time and energy would make it easier to walk forward. Stay tuned and thank you all for the advice. I will share details at the
appropriate time as so others can stay clear.
When searching for the end of your rainbow you only have until dusk....
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Bob and Susan
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8813
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Mulege BCS on the BAY
Member Is Offline
Mood: Full Time Residents
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so...now... will you be able to "serve" them in california???
broken piano bench leg... NOT normal you should have charged
broken dresser... NOT normal you should have charged
a few picture holes in the wall..normal (only drywall)
stain on one of the sofas... NOT normal you should have charged
such a thick layer of dust ...normal
dog hair... normal ONLY if you allowed pets
good luck...we're watching for the outcome
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flyfishinPam
Super Nomad
Posts: 1727
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Loreto, BCS
Member Is Offline
Mood: gone fishin'
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This is EXACTLY what I would do (NFM)
| Quote: | Originally posted by Dave
When you paid the rent did you get a factura? Legal receipts with a tax id #?
If not, here's what I'd do:
Contact the rental agent and ask him/her for tax ID #'s. That you're thinking of retaining an attorney and inquiring at SAT (Mexico's IRS) to see if
the landlord has paid taxes on income received.
I'll bet you get your deposit back. |
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flyfishinPam
Super Nomad
Posts: 1727
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Loreto, BCS
Member Is Offline
Mood: gone fishin'
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Tim follow Dave's instructions go to Hacienda with this whey would be interested, also go to Migracion, the owners stand to lose everything if they're
not 100% legal. You WILL get your deposit back and you WILL save the time, expense and stress of having to sue them wherever you end up sueing them.
They want a fight, stand up for yourself and fight.
| Quote: | Originally posted by tim40
Believe we will have much more success that you some might think. I was delighted to confirm this morning that they can be brought to small claims
court in California. I have emails that convey the post inspection with the leasing agent. It does indeed appear the government is interested in
the tax paying hx of the agency and the owners for this property...... It may take months, but I am retired and sometimes f'heads need to be dealt
with even when time and energy would make it easier to walk forward. Stay tuned and thank you all for the advice. I will share details at the
appropriate time as so others can stay clear. |
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richard nauman
Junior Nomad
Posts: 67
Registered: 10-1-2003
Member Is Offline
Mood: Tranquilo
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I was involved with a similar situation in La Paz with a short term rental. I mentioned Profeco to the property manager and my deposit was promptly
returned.
Profeco in La Paz
In addition ot Hacienda, I think that the IRS might be interested in unreported income from rental properties in Mexico.
Good Luck!
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wilderone
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3824
Registered: 2-9-2004
Member Is Offline
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Be sure to demand punitive damages (twice the amount of the deposit in punitive damages for bad faith retention of the security deposit). Also, if
you're going to sue the owners in California your demand letter should be to them, not the leasing company (or both of them), but a prerequisite to
suit is the demand letter. They will have to prove the expenses that they say they incurred (for instance, the fumigation, the price of the tables,
minus depreciation for used furniture). You might cover yourself, and get some price estimates for the tables yourself. You have a good case. good
luck.
Landlord must return the security deposit within three weeks of your vacating the premises. If the landlord deducts any money, Landlord must provide
an itemized statement of charges within 3 weeks, and return any remaining unused balance of the deposit. Landlord can only withhold amounts necessary
to pay for (1) repairing damages caused by the tenant (exclusive or ordinary wear and tear); (2) Paying overdue rent;
(3) Cleaning if necessary; and (4) Replacing personal property of the landlord (such as furniture) if the rental lease agreement allows it.
b. Civil Code Section 1950.5 (l): A judge can award up to twice the amount of the deposit in punitive damages for bad faith retention of the security
deposit, in addition to what was actually withheld.
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woody with a view
PITA Nomad
Posts: 15939
Registered: 11-8-2004
Location: Looking at the Coronado Islands
Member Is Offline
Mood: Everchangin'
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doesn't the landlord have to pay interest equal to a passbook savings account on all security deposits?
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Bob and Susan
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8813
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Mulege BCS on the BAY
Member Is Offline
Mood: Full Time Residents
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nope
and usually no double the damages
don't try
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tim40
Senior Nomad
Posts: 574
Registered: 3-29-2004
Location: Manhattan Beach
Member Is Offline
Mood: There yet?
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PROMISED UPDATE:
Starting with the end: We won our case at Superios Court Small Claims Court here in california.
What an ordeal.....because we are the type that go above and beyond to treat people, all people, with honor, honesty, and respect the 150 or so hours
working on this case was worth it from a 'mental' point of view. The entire process drove home why so many will work, or at least attempt, outside
the legal process. Trying to get straight answers, having paperwork lost, filing, a different "official" answer from almost every person we spoke
to, on and on and on.
Still can not convey to you for certain that we "legally" had the ability to win this case in US courts.....could NEVER get this answer at any cost,
and we did pay 3 different 'expert' attornies.
We believe we won because we had our ducks in a row. We had facts in triplicate that supported our case and showed how the owners were lying through
their teeth.
At conclusion, we are not certain what we would have done differently to prevent this major league hassle. The only thing that possibly would have
prevented the attempt from the owners would have been taking before and after videos, copied them, and then sent them immediately to the owners so
they would think twice.
We are now going after their Mexican Real Estate company. We are filing with the Tax authorities and Profeca and then will be using some of the money
we recovered to run an add in the gringo paper in the area listing purely the unquestioned facts or our experience. Companies like this, be them in
Mexico, Manhattan, or Lisbon, damage the reputation of the other 99 out of a 100 wonderful honest businesses.
When searching for the end of your rainbow you only have until dusk....
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woody with a view
PITA Nomad
Posts: 15939
Registered: 11-8-2004
Location: Looking at the Coronado Islands
Member Is Offline
Mood: Everchangin'
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glad to hear you're sleeping better. when can you give the details (names, etc...) here?
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Paladin
Nomad
Posts: 164
Registered: 3-25-2006
Member Is Offline
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Tim
Congratulations on victory. Too many people are afraid of the "system" and therefore will not fight back.
I'm not an attorney but I love a good legal fight. Its like the last frontier.
Two more court fights and the California Bar Association will make me an honorary member.
Take no prisoners.
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BajaNuts
Super Nomad
Posts: 1085
Registered: 5-11-2008
Location: eastern WA, the DRY side
Member Is Offline
Mood: no worry, no hurry....it's all good!
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Congrats on the good outcome!
just FYI,
as far as I know ( and I will confirm this again with my parents who have been landlords for 40 years and members of Washington State Landlords
Association)...
It is illegal for a landlord to ask for first, last, AND deposit in WA state. A landlord can ask for 2 out of 3 of these security deposits. I'm
going to email Mom right now about something else so I'll include this question.
If the rent on a place is $2000 ( not an uncommon amount), the tenant could face coming up with $6K to get into a place if they have to come up with
all 3!
Don't know about other states....
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