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Sharksbaja
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5814
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" Why would you consider my respect for and demand that others respect the law to run contrary to my religious beliefs"
Short answer: Because not all laws are right or appropriate for all. Should we have blanket laws? Should the coca farmers be annhiliated because our
laws forbid it's use?
I don't perscribe to breaking laws but some are so antiquated and rediculous it's hard to take them seriously or even adhere to them.
It's the notion that because it is illegal that extreme measures like exterminating the demographic is justifiable.
I don't know but it seems that while executing Jews was not illegal to the N-zis I doubt it would be upheld in a World Court as a justified war act.
"Why do you think there are so many Jewish lawyers"
Because it's lucrative?
DON\'T SQUINT! Give yer eyes a break!
Try holding down [control] key and toggle the [+ and -] keys
Viva Mulege!
Nomads\' Sunsets
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Dave
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6005
Registered: 11-5-2002
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Lame
| Quote: | Originally posted by Iflyfish
He was making an analogy between the two groups, marijuana users who are demonized and imprisoned by the state and Jewish people who were demonized
and exterminated by the state.
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Any legitimate State has the right to criminalize the use of any substance, be it cannabis or cooking oil. The N-zis criminalized the
existence of a people. There is no analogy.
FYI, it was the study of the Talmud, not surviving the Holocaust that led Jews to the law.
That...and Jewish mothers. 
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JESSE
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I have never understanded why far more lethal and addictive drugs like alcohol and cigarretes are legal, and marijuana, cocaine and others, are not.
Why is watching a drunk stumble and puke on a street is perfectly normal, and smoking marijuana at home not?
The facts are clear, this is never going to be solved under our current system, why not control it, tax it, and make it less dangerous.
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JESSE
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Dave
| Quote: | Originally posted by Iflyfish
He was making an analogy between the two groups, marijuana users who are demonized and imprisoned by the state and Jewish people who were demonized
and exterminated by the state.
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Any legitimate State has the right to criminalize the use of any substance, be it cannabis or cooking oil. The N-zis criminalized the
existence of a people. There is no analogy.
FYI, it was the study of the Talmud, not surviving the Holocaust that led Jews to the law.
That...and Jewish mothers. |
Killing people in order to enforce laws regarding what a state considers right or wrong, is just as bad as N-zis criminalizing the existence of
certain people. I am frankly surprised about your opinion about this Dave. Jews where seen as inferior because of the beliefs of a large portion of
german society. Did that belief give N-zis the right to kill Jews based on their views? isnt that very similar to killing someone just because a large
portion of society thinks they deserve it in order to enforce what they perceive as good or right?
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Bajahowodd
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The holocaust was perhaps the most recent example, and certainly among the most disgusting, but Jews have had to deal with discrimination, attacks,
and second class citizenship throughout history. It seems they have been the poster child of focus by demagogues all around the world. I can
understand when people lose hope, they can be manipulated to rally against the enemy without. But when it comes to Jews, Christians and Muslims, so
much of the dogma has common origins. Just go to Jerusalem which is the confluence of all three. Rodney King said it......"Can't we all just get
along?"
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Dave
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No, not even close
| Quote: | Originally posted by JESSE
Killing people in order to enforce laws regarding what a state considers right or wrong, is just as bad as N-zis criminalizing the
existence of certain people. |
It's called capital punishment. Very effective in preventing repeat behavior.
What the N-zis did was incomparable to and worse than anything.
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Iflyfish
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Dave,
"FYI, it was the study of the Talmud, not surviving the Holocaust that led Jews to the law."
So you think Moses was not bringing down laws with the big ten? Oy vey!
"It's called capital punishment. Very effective in preventing repeat behavior.
What the N-zis did was incomparable to and worse than anything."
Jessie is right, the difference is not one of kind but of degree.
Are you arguing for capital punishment for drug use?
Iflyfish
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Bajahowodd
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Capital punishment is state sponsored murder. See any parallels?
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k-rico
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajahowodd
k-rico- the link that you posted is to an article written by a member of the Family Research Council, which is a Fundamentalist Christian conservative
think tank. I would have expected nothing less from the conclusions drawn in the article given their mission and their audience. Plus the article is
14 years old. However, I do thank you for posting it because open dialogue is a necessary fundamental to our democracy. |
The significance of the information is not diminished. There were many information sources cited. See the footnotes.
14 years is a blink of the eye considering the age of this debate.
I wonder what side drug addicts would take? I'm addicted to cigarettes so I'm an addict. You know where I stand.
There's a middleground.
For example:
Yesterday on San Diego freeways there were many people driving 80 mph. Illegal, but very lightly (never?) enforced. It's a gray area.
Peaceful coexistence.
I gotta say I like the tax aspect tho. Then there would be money to spend on ad campaigns warning people not to do what was just legalized.
[Edited on 3-14-2009 by k-rico]
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Dave
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No
| Quote: | Originally posted by Iflyfish
Are you arguing for capital punishment for drug use?
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I prefer a more draconian approach.
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Bajahowodd
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One of the keener minds who posts here mentioned that the political spectrum is round and not linear. That libertarians and liberals share certain
views. My concern that caused me to post a critique of the linked website is that as we all know, you can find ideas and quotes to suit your purpose.
I will go so far as to absoultely agree that any intoxicant should be witheld from minors under all circumstances. But for adults, there should be a
freedom of choice. And if I am recalling correctly the article on the link said something to the effect that freedom does not give the right to people
to abuse themselves. If it does no harm to others, what is the problem? So, I'm thinking that the posters' agenda is that we should conduct our lives
as they feel is the(ir) correct way.
That reminds me. Do you remember a time when it seemed like the freeways were teeming with CHP? Where they all go?
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Bajahowodd
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Capital punishment is state sponsored murder.
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Dave
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You're repeating yourself
| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajahowodd
Capital punishment is state sponsored murder. |
Which should be a capital offense.
Damn.
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Bajahowodd
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It's the revenge factor that drives it. But Dave, you are correct.
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BajaBruno
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A little background in the government involvement in supplying hard drugs to America may be in order....
In 1972, the CIA shut down an IRS money laundering investigation of marijuana and LSD dealer Allan George Palmer, because the bank he was depositing
into was a CIA front bank operated to finance operations in Cuba, et al, with “off-the-books funds.”
As early as 1951, the CIA was taking money from Mafia gang leaders, chief among them Meyer Lansky, considered the bookkeeper of the Mafia, to finance
operation in Thailand, Burma, and other regions the CIA was trying to either destabilize or retain control of. This money has been reported to come
from the CIA actually transporting drugs from Burma via their front transportation entities, Sea Supply and Cat Inc. (later Air America).
In the 1990s Dennis Dayle, having retired as a top DEA investigator in the Middle East, told an anti-drug conference that "in my 30-year history in
the Drug Enforcement Administration and related agencies, the major targets of my investigations almost invariably turned out to be working for the
CIA."
In the late 1970’s, Neil Evans, representative in Thailand of Australian Bank Nugan Hand, said the bank “moved $50 to $60 million at a time for the
CIA,” and told Australian television that the millions he handled were “garnered from the drugs transiting the area. The bank, he put it starkly, was
a ‘laundry’ for Meo [Hmong] tribesmen and other poppy growers.” At the time, this was the largest supplier of heroin to the US.
In 2002, a former FBI translator complained that “Al Qaeda is financed 95% by drug money - drug traffic [furnishes 96% of Europe's heroin] to which
the U.S. government shows a blind eye, has been ignoring, because it very heavily involves allies and assets of ours."
US troop commanders in Afghanistan have complained bitterly that they are prohibited from disturbing opium poppy fields in the country, and official
US sources report that the Afghan poppy harvest is at record levels, after having been nearly eradicated by the Taliban.
In the 1990, DEA agents stationed in Thailand similarly complained bitterly that the CIA was protecting heroin flights out of the Golden Triangle so
they could buy weapons from China and supply them to, of all people, Cambodian mass-murderer Pol Pot, who the CIA regarded as anti-communist.
++++++++++++++++++++
The examples could go on for pages, but my point is that the US government is a major supplier of hard narcotics to the US and European markets,
while at the same time maintaining the pretense of a “War on Drugs.” My friends who are Marxist criminologists would say that the government uses
drugs, just as it uses welfare, to keep the unemployed too high to revolt or riot. Whether true or not, it is quite obvious that the government, at
very high levels, is unconcerned with illicit drug use and is probably just using the drug fight as a platform issue to get reelected.
Politicians have been very effective at vilifying drug users for their own purposes, but we all know a drug user and most of us can find him by
looking in the mirror.
The idea that a government can outlaw anything, at will, is false. Buried deeply within US law (which we inherited from England) is the concept that
the government must have a “legitimate government purpose” for the laws it enacts and we have courts to enforce that requirement. That the courts
have let the government continue to imprison drug users, when the government itself is a major drug supplier, is a testament to the time-honored
tradition of zealots to “let my conscience be your guide.”
Christopher Bruno, Elk Grove, CA.
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DENNIS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajahowodd
Capital punishment is state sponsored murder. |
Over-taxation is state sponsored murder.
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bajalou
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Dave
| Quote: | Originally posted by bajalou
We killed millions of fascists |
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You didn't answer the question Dave - do you plan on killing the 20+% of the US population that uses drugs?
[Edited on 3-15-2009 by bajalou]
No Bad Days
\"Never argue with an idiot. People watching may not be able to tell the difference\"
\"The trouble with doing nothing is - how do I know when I\'m done?\"
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And in the San Felipe area - check out Valle Chico area |
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Frantic1
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@ k-rico
You are correct, many third world nations rely on drug cultivation to support their economies. There is obviously a big enough demand for the
products that US companies could legally import it, using fair trade practices, which would continue to support the governments that rely on drug
revenue. That would also have a financial benefit for the US by decreasing the amount of foreign aid we distribute.
Amazingly enough, pharmaceutical drugs, legally prescribed, are now among the most highly abused drugs in the US. Drug users will find drugs.
It just seems pointless to make them criminals as well as drug users. And it really seems pointless to spend a bunch of money on a drug war that has
shown no progress since the 1960's.
Frantic1
\"Ships were not meant for harbors.\"
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Dave
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As Dean might say:
| Quote: | Originally posted by Frantic1
Amazingly enough, pharmaceutical drugs, legally prescribed, are now among the most highly abused drugs in the US.
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"Ain't that a kick in the head?"
So we should legalize more drugs? 
You people must all be stoned.
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Dave
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Would I?
| Quote: | Originally posted by bajalou
You didn't answer the question Dave - do you plan on killing the 20+% of the US population that uses drugs?
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No. But it wouldn't bother me none if you did.
Have at it.
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