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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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| Quote: | Originally posted by ArroyoTaxi
Why are you guys getting so harsh about this? Why are you so offended that I feel compassion and sorrow for the people involved in this story? I just
don't get it. |
Now Now...Everything will be alright. You just got thrown under the wheels of the Cynical Faction of BajaNomad. It happens to all of us at one time
or another.
Just keep in mind that nobody here has enough facts to make judgemental decisions on this story.......yet. But, in time, we will and everybody will
say,"I told you so."
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Bajajack
Banned
Posts: 370
Registered: 5-20-2007
Location: Arizona
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I am very familiar with Mexican Law and I do know for certain that very few case decisions involving Guilt or Innocence are based on Evidence.
Whether Mex or Gringo it's usually money or revenge that decides.
Anyone who's lived there a few month's already know's this.
That's the way it's always been and probably always will be.
Case Closed.
\"take what you can, give nothing back!\"
We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the
American people.\'
Theodore Roosevelt 1907
We can have no \"50-50\" allegiance in this country. Either a man is an American and nothing else, or he is not an American at all.
Theodore Roosevelt
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dishinit
Newbie
Posts: 6
Registered: 2-12-2009
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| Quote: | Originally posted by ArroyoTaxi
........... Why are you guys getting so harsh about this? Why are you so offended that I feel compassion and sorrow for the people involved in this
story? I just don't get it. |
“I just don't get it”
And you never will if you expect some here to have empathy with you.
From what I observe, there are folks who relish passing judgment on others because “what they choose” to believe supports their particular/peculiar
grasp of the world, be it twisted, distorted , warped or through some alcoholic fuzz.
There are also those who relish pointing their finger at those who are in the cross-hairs of life because it makes them feel superior. Sort of the
Gang Bang “I told you so”
And there are those who just cannot let a moment/opportunity go by without offering up some provocative comment so that they can be the center of
attention.
Expect disagreement here....even what may seem irrational or bigoted disagreement.
Expect thread hijacking....like I am doing!
But don't expect agreement.
You are entitled to your opinion and feelings....just as much as those who question or oppose you.
Toughen up! Be like a Cactus......You do live in Baja
By the way, a thug/crook/killer can have many guises........he can even be your most trusted investment councilor, or Bank, or high ranking
politician.
After watching the video's, I was left with some questions...... and I also had some empathy for the family in how it feels to be totally
frustrated/helpless when dealing with another countries bureaucracy or way of doing (or not) business. This is not limited to Mexico.
And if it were my family involved, I would be outraged at the impotence of my own government.
I doubt if we here on bajanomads, will ever know the whole story....as there is always more than one side.
Anyway, thanks for the links to the video's and thanks for expressing your views/feelings.
And goat, I morn the loss of those kids....I would be devastated if that happened to one of mine.
But rather than hijack this thread with your indignation, how about starting another.
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ArroyoTaxi
Junior Nomad
Posts: 88
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Los Barriles
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DENNIS, despite your nauseating condescension, how can you say that no one has the facts, yet eventually you will say I told you so? All I am saying
is that I feel badly for everyone involved.
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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| Quote: | Originally posted by ArroyoTaxi
DENNIS, despite your nauseating condescension, how can you say that no one has the facts, yet eventually you will say I told you so? All I am saying
is that I feel badly for everyone involved. |
Nauseating condescension? You've got it all wrong.
OK...you feel badly for everyone involved. Good. Feel badly and quit crying about it. You, for sure, are feeling worse about your poor
misunderstood self than you are about anything else.
Given the opportunity to bury you in cynacism in the future, I will.
Now..wipe away those tears and grow up.
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JESSE
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3370
Registered: 11-5-2002
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Whats funny to me, is that it seems unless theres american or canadian victims involved, no norteamericano is capable of wrongdoing according to the
media. Everytime somebody gets caught (sometimes clearly breaking the law), you just put a sad face, cry, tell all your relatives and friends your not
guilty, wich have no other choice but to support you and go on a media blitz defending their poor relative from the evil Mexican justice system, and
it works.
Just look at that stupid french kidnapper woman. She was caught with the kidnapper in his house, the victim in one room tied and chained, and even the
French president is trying to get poor little kidnapper off the hook. The victim, and other kidnapping victims, all recognized the woman and her
french accent, treatening them, telling them she was going to cut a finger off, and still, all the French media treats her like a victim of the
corrupt Mexican system.
By the way, Kulisek was arrested by a rapid response team of Mexican federal agents, after getting a call from DEA agents operating in Mexico. DEA
was actually the one doing the intelligence, the surveillance, and practically did everything besides the arrest. They where there. So why doesn´t
the family ask the DEA to show us the intelligence on this bust to prove he is an innocent man?
I know why.
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CaboRon
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3401
Registered: 3-24-2007
Location: The Valley of the Moon
Member Is Offline
Mood: Peacefull
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajajack
I am very familiar with Mexican Law and I do know for certain that very few case decisions involving Guilt or Innocence are based on Evidence.
Whether Mex or Gringo it's usually money or revenge that decides.
Anyone who's lived there a few month's already know's this.
That's the way it's always been and probably always will be.
Case Closed.
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
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I recalled how when initially reported, the story was that US agents were in Barriles and behind the arrest, they identified the "most wanted" Gustavo
Rivera and his associate-Kuliskova. I recall Baja police made the arrest at the request of the US. ( I may be wrong but this is what I recall).
Moreover, the individual Kulisek had moved to Barriles and had got into racing. He has a young family. He had just moved there bought a house but was
selling his house to move back to Canada?
So, Kuliskova should be able to establish how he had assets to move to Barriles, What was his source of income, what was his occupation and how did he
fund his racing.
If he is unable to establish his sources of income and what he was doing moving to Barriles, meaning how he had assets, he could be under suspicion
based on circumstantial evidence.
Its not different than Mafia figures being arrested for evading taxes as opposed to specific crimes.
However, there is no report anywhere I could find that suggested he did have unexplained assets except a house and motorcycle etc..., there are no
reports he had suspicious funds or that he had made any questionable money transfers or actions.
So, as Jesse points out the USA was the accuser, they started this, the DEA agent was apparently the tipster and Mexico is apparently allowing the law
to follow its path.
On the other hand, any one who knows Baja knows that there are people you run into at hotdog stands with excessive funds who seem like nice people,
you don't always stand up and leave a restaurant or hotdog stand just because a nice wealthy person acts friendly to you. In Los Barriles no one
works and it is a wealthy enclave. Quite honestly there are many characters and one doesn't run away from every interaction, though it might be best
to do so based on this story.
I actually know half the gringos in town and I have no idea where their money came from...
I did find this statement from Kuliskova which sheds some light on the background of the investigation.
http://pavelkulisek.com/letter2.pdf
http://www.pavelkulisek.com
[Edited on 6-8-2009 by gnukid]
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Bajahowodd
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9274
Registered: 12-15-2008
Location: Disneyland Adjacent and anywhere in Baja
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OK. So I took a number of hits for my "cynical" view of this. I always get upset when people characterize the Mexican justice system as byzantine. Try
Napoleon. Just because it's not like British Common Law, it automatically means that anyone swept up is experiencing something akin to the 70's Turkey
a la Midnight Express. I stand behind my original feeling that if this was some gross miscarriage of justice, the Canadian government would have been
involved in obtaining Pavel's release. for all of those who seem to believe that whenever anyone, especially a gringo, is arrested in Mexico and will
die in their jail cell, then I urge all you folks to run. Run fast for the border. Because obviously you are all in serious jeopardy.
Why in the world don't you believe that there is constant communication among each nation's law enforcement?
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CaboRon
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3401
Registered: 3-24-2007
Location: The Valley of the Moon
Member Is Offline
Mood: Peacefull
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajahowodd
OK. So I took a number of hits for my "cynical" view of this. I always get upset when people characterize the Mexican justice system as byzantine. Try
Napoleon. Just because it's not like British Common Law, it automatically means that anyone swept up is experiencing something akin to the 70's Turkey
a la Midnight Express. I stand behind my original feeling that if this was some gross miscarriage of justice, the Canadian government would have been
involved in obtaining Pavel's release. for all of those who seem to believe that whenever anyone, especially a gringo, is arrested in Mexico and will
die in their jail cell, then I urge all you folks to run. Run fast for the border. Because obviously you are all in serious jeopardy.
Why in the world don't you believe that there is constant communication among each nation's law enforcement? |
It has been my personel and observed experience that he who has the most money or the mexico city connection receives the "justice" .... the entire
system is bought and sold to the highest bidder .....
Invest in mexico at your own risk ....
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 18392
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
Member Is Offline
Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajahowodd
I stand behind my original feeling that if this was some gross miscarriage of justice, the Canadian government would have been involved in obtaining
Pavel's release.
Why in the world don't you believe that there is constant communication among each nation's law enforcement? |
law enforcement in Can and US really don't care about their citizens arrested overseas. 100s of gringos are arrested everyday overseas -- the govt
doesn't have the motivation, resources or jurisdiction to help them. Govt only helps if you speak loudly or wield a big stick.
mexico legal system is scary. so is US legal system. enter at your own risk, the systems are set up to screw you.
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BMG
Super Nomad
Posts: 1776
Registered: 6-10-2007
Location: La Paz / Bahia Asunci�n / Away from home
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| Quote: | Originally posted by mtgoat666
100s of gringos are arrested everyday overseas |
Bull crap.
I think the world is run by C- students.
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 18392
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
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Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by BMG
| Quote: | Originally posted by mtgoat666
100s of gringos are arrested everyday overseas |
Bull crap. |
Not bull crap, but maybe a slight exageration  . In 2007 the LA Times reported
from official statistics (which likely under-report actuals, such as drunk-disorderly arrests that result in just a night of detention):
Drawing together reports from more than 290 cities worldwide, State Department officials counted 4,456 arrests abroad last year, up from 3,614 in 2005
but down slightly from 4,473 in 2003.
The top 10 cities where Americans were arrested and the number taken into custody:
1. Tijuana: 520
2. Guadalajara: 416
3. Nuevo Laredo: 359
4. London: 274
5. Mexico City: 208
6. Toronto: 183
[Edited on 6-8-2009 by mtgoat666]
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BMG
Super Nomad
Posts: 1776
Registered: 6-10-2007
Location: La Paz / Bahia Asunci�n / Away from home
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by mtgoat666
| Quote: | Originally posted by BMG
| Quote: | Originally posted by mtgoat666
100s of gringos are arrested everyday overseas |
Bull crap. |
Not bull crap, but maybe a slight exageration |
A 'slight' exaggeration. 200 arrests a day would be 73,000 per
year.
I think the world is run by C- students.
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 18392
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
Member Is Offline
Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by BMG
| Quote: | Originally posted by mtgoat666
| Quote: | Originally posted by BMG
| Quote: | Originally posted by mtgoat666
100s of gringos are arrested everyday overseas |
Bull crap. |
Not bull crap, but maybe a slight exageration |
A 'slight' exaggeration. 200 arrests a day would be 73,000 per
year. |
whatever
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Bajahowodd
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9274
Registered: 12-15-2008
Location: Disneyland Adjacent and anywhere in Baja
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Tijuana and Nuevo Laredo do not surprise me as they are both border towns that attract folks for shenanigans. Guadalajara and Mexico City are high on
the list as well, probably because Mexico is the second greatest destination for American tourists.
As for CaboRon's observation that 'money talks" in Mexican justice, maybe you should check out the available stats regarding wealth and success or
failure in the US system. Again, I really think that our experience and comfort in our Common Law based system leads us to feel more skeptical toward
other systems of jurisprudence. I'm certainly not advocating for the Napoleonic approach. But, it's been utilized for a long time in many civilized
countries.
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ArroyoTaxi
Junior Nomad
Posts: 88
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Los Barriles
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
| Quote: | Originally posted by ArroyoTaxi
DENNIS, despite your nauseating condescension, how can you say that no one has the facts, yet eventually you will say I told you so? All I am saying
is that I feel badly for everyone involved. |
Nauseating condescension? You've got it all wrong.
OK...you feel badly for everyone involved. Good. Feel badly and quit crying about it. You, for sure, are feeling worse about your poor
misunderstood self than you are about anything else.
Given the opportunity to bury you in cynacism in the future, I will.
Now..wipe away those tears and grow up. |
Dennis, you are going to "bury me in cynacism" ??? because I have a different point of view than you? no offense, but you sound like the one who needs
to grow up. you can't bully people into agreeing with you.
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajahowodd
As for CaboRon's observation that 'money talks" in Mexican justice, maybe you should check out the available stats regarding wealth and success or
failure in the US system. Again, I really think that our experience and comfort in our Common Law based system leads us to feel more skeptical toward
other systems of jurisprudence. I'm certainly not advocating for the Napoleonic approach. But, it's been utilized for a long time in many civilized
countries. |
With so much criticism of Mexico's justice, might we consider the current state of US justice? We must be aware of the vast theft of trillions in our
assets from our own coffiers? We have currently a well publicized and documented history of rendition (kidnapping and torture of people who committed
no crimes) extraordinary rendition (kidnapping people and putting them on planes to torture them and leave them in foreign countries).
We currently torture innocents, murder, its well documented, admitted and continuing. Obama announced indefinite detentions (no charges-permanent
incarceration and torture) and this week he announced that following 7 years of torture and no charges he will accept no trials, only the signed
guilty statement followed by the death penalty.
Furthermore, we have the largest number of people incarcerated per capita in the world, a long history of misdirected prosecution and racial profiling
resulting in inordinate numbers of blacks and hispanics in prisons for non-violent crimes and crimes against no one but themselves, such as drugs.
The USA is now building more prisons, more detention camps, more slave labor camps, more than any other location in the world. There are more than
1000 detention camps empty and ready for more prisoners to work por pennies to pay off their debt.
All the while, a look at the last few years has brought on executive orders that have effectively dismantled the bill of rights or the amendments, all
except the 3rd.
And yet, through tunnel vision, the majority it would seem could care less. People like Ron would prefer to criticize Mexico, while in fact this case
names USA-Cananda based companies as the culprits along with support from Fonatur?
Ron, your lack of vision and your lack of ability to see yourself and your country is something to behold. Why not step outside and approach your own
neighbors and friends and start by cleaning up your where you're energies are desperately needed.
Let the Loreto project be an example, its done as many have been done previously. Consider it a success in the eyes of Baja. Baja shall always reclaim
itself from the materialistic and silly dreams of norteamericanos. Just like it has done with you.
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by ArroyoTaxi
Dennis, you are going to "bury me in cynacism" ??? because I have a different point of view than you? no offense, but you sound like the one who needs
to grow up. you can't bully people into agreeing with you. |
I don't care who does or doesn't agree with me. I had no opinion on this thread other than I don't like to be called condescending or nausiating when
all I tried to do was throw in a little humor and support for you when they were flushing you down the crapper. Maybe I should have decorated my post
with a bunch of these  for the benefit of those who take all this stuff too
seriously.
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