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fishbuck
Banned
Posts: 5318
Registered: 8-31-2006
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So this "concession" thing... does this mean I can drink beer on your beach now?
So I hope this staff you have includes atleast one beautiful mexican waitress to bring that beer!
When I get my concession that's what I'm going to have!
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for." J. A. Shedd.
A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it. – Albert Einstein
"Life's a Beach... and then you Fly!" Fishbuck
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Bob and Susan
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8813
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Mulege BCS on the BAY
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Mood: Full Time Residents
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pam...your right
i can't spell
and no fishbuck...no beer sold on the beach
we have a deal with pacifico for drinks around the POOL!!!
and
you on your own for the "girls"
its pretty desolate out here at the
"wild part of the bay"
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Osprey
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3694
Registered: 5-23-2004
Location: Baja Ca. Sur
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Bob and Susan, You've been helpful and forthcoming about information about your new concession when Nomads have made inquiries. But not to mine.
Wether our town will have beach access or not hangs on the question I asked you. Not asking for legal knowledge or advice. Through your process did
you learn that beach concessions cannot be sold or transfered? If you know, please. Thanks, Please, thanks.
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longlegsinlapaz
Super Nomad
Posts: 1685
Registered: 11-18-2005
Location: La Paz
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Osprey, everything I've heard is that concessions are NOT transferable. One of the marinas in town was for sale....until the existing owner found out
the concession which is where the docks & slips are would not be allowed to rollover to a potential buyer. The potential buyer would have had to
close the deal on blind faith that a new concession would eventually be issued in his name, but the marina would be operation illegally in the
interim. It was a catch-22 & the potential buyer wasn't willing to risk it all on a roll of the dice that his concession application would be
granted; the deal never happened. Hope that helps.
Food for thought....I'm not sure what your trying to accomplish, but have you thought of checking into forming a corporation & requesting
concession under a fixed corp. name where the owners/members of the corp. could change over time? Or asking SEMERNAT if a concession could be granted
to the town as a whole.
Edit corrected faint to faith 
[Edited on 6-19-2009 by longlegsinlapaz]
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Osprey
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Thanks legs, there are 3 concessions on our beach and if they sell to the marina, we lose our beach. We have applied for a new one down the beach a
ways but as you know it could take a while. One or more concessionairs want to let their concession lapse (which is the same as selling it if the act
is overt and done for money - I think- ). Every thing I've learned tells me you are right that they cannot be sold or transferred -- I just thought
since Bob and Susan just went through a protracted and complex application process they might have learned more and would share their knowledge.
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oladulce
Super Nomad
Posts: 1625
Registered: 5-30-2005
Location: bcs
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Osprey, I can forward you a copy of mine if you'd like. The document is only about 3 pages. U2u me with your contact information if it would be
helpful.
But I don't know if our "ornato" concession has the same rules as the situation you describe. I couldn't find anything in the doc, but it sure could
be there in the Spanish.
I'm sorry but the topic didn't come up during our process.
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longlegsinlapaz
Super Nomad
Posts: 1685
Registered: 11-18-2005
Location: La Paz
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I was told that concession allows you to block the beach from vehicular traffic, but you CANNOT block it to foot traffic. You can put cement posts in
2'-3'-4' apart, but you cannot put up a solid fence to block foot traffic. Letter of the law is one thing....what happens in reality &
enforcement is a whole 'nuther story! I wish you luck in your quest!
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Osprey
Ultra Nomad
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Location: Baja Ca. Sur
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A concession for Fishing presupposes you need vehicle access to the beach so you can sell fish, load gas, customers for charters, launch and haul with
trucks. You are so right about "the letter of the law" -- at Cabo Cortez they have fenced in and graded an access road one lane by a couple of
kilometers. That will not work -- can't turn around -- very hard to back up a car/truck pulling a boat for a kilometer so the other guy can go home.
La Associacion Mexico Unidos por sus Playas is working hard down south here to get beach rights back to where the Mexican government wanted them.
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Bob and Susan
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8813
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Mulege BCS on the BAY
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as far as i know you CANNOT sell or TRANSFER
a part or all of a concession
UNLESS
its in the name of a corporation
then
if you sold the corp it goes with those assets
----------------
a fishing concession bars a new operator from getting another "higher" concession
(on top of the fishing concession)
so there cant be two concessions of different types on the same area of beach
access to the beach with a car is NOT required unless it is written in the original document and the owner of the property that needs to be crossed
with a car would have to agree
walking to the beach is ALWAYS ok
the fishing concession is ONLY for taking out and returning a boat with fish for sale
remember its illegal to drive on the beach...period
[Edited on 6-19-2009 by Bob and Susan]
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Woooosh
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Mood: Luminescent Waves at Rosarito Beach
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You are not supposed to buy or sell federal land- which is what a concession rewally is. Now that I have learned the histry of ejidos though (soviet
styled land sharing) and how people found a way to profit by their sale- I don't blame anyone for trying.
Here's a Craigslist listing (with satellite images) of a person trying to sell concession land. There isn't even street access and it is front of
another concession. Happens all the time in Norte.
http://tijuana.en.craigslist.com.mx/reo/1188455360.html
We must have a different application process and rules up here- because nothing happens locally, except to take your money. Everything goes through
Mexico City. The local Semanart people knocked on our door when it was finally approved and then sent us to the Palacio to pay.
A previous poster suggested to apply just to tie it up- and not follow through. That is good advice actually. In norte the crooks went up and down
the whole coast looking for land grabs. They skipped over any parcels that had been applied for. So that does work- for a while anyways.
[Edited on 6-19-2009 by Woooosh]
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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Osprey
Ultra Nomad
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Location: Baja Ca. Sur
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Thanks so much, everybody has helped a lot.
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pacside
Nomad
Posts: 316
Registered: 1-16-2006
Location: N. Cal
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I have an interesting situation. A developer pulled all concessions along a huge swath of oceanfront to basically protect it from others building
structures and other uses. He has offered to transfer the piece in front of my casa to me. He suggested I form a corporation and it can be done that
way.
Others tell me only the entire concession can be transferred not part of a concession. Anyway, I'm working with developer and others to see what can
be done.
pacside
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Woooosh
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A concession comes with a title. One title per concession. Maybe if you joined his corporation he could casually "assign" you the parcel in front of
your house- but you wouldn't have any more legal rights than you do now. When the corporation changes it's mind- you are done. I'll bet he's not
offering it for free either- is he? Talk to Semanart and see what they say about it. The developer is working for his interests- not yours or he
wouldn't have called dibbs on the land to begin with.
A very important factor in concessions is knowing who is in "first" position for approval. A mexican holding clear title to land that is impacted by
the federal zone has first right to it when applying for a concession. (we supplied photos of the ocean water actually touching our house- so there
would be no doubt about "impact". ) Everyone else comes next- but Mexico City gives priority among that group to those who want to develop, not
protect, the land. Their thinking is that development creates jobs, helps the local economy, pays more taxes, etc.
At least that's how it works in Norte.
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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JESSE
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3370
Registered: 11-5-2002
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Congratulations, just don't invite Mano Negra and Olivia to your celebration party
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Bob and Susan
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8813
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Mulege BCS on the BAY
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whoosh
"Talk to Semanart and see"...
that's SEMARNAP... i've already been spanked
our concession was applied for and
fees paid at the SEMARNAP office in santa rosalia
first
then to la paz
then to mexico city for the "real" approval
then back to la paz for pick up
wooosh is correct all concessions are approved in mexico city
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Bob and Susan
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8813
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Mulege BCS on the BAY
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jesse
we were going to "party" at your place in la paz but you were closed
so...
we went to "applebees"
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shari
Select Nomad
Posts: 13048
Registered: 3-10-2006
Location: bahia asuncion, baja sur
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Mood: there is no reality except the one contained within us "Herman Hesse"
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muchas felizidades B & S...peace of mind has a price doesn't it but now you can relax knowing you are pretty safe....whew.
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longlegsinlapaz
Super Nomad
Posts: 1685
Registered: 11-18-2005
Location: La Paz
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Bob, please repeat after me ....
SEMARNAT
S E M A R N A T
S E M A R N A T
While it's true that everyone pronounces it with a "p" at the end. it's actually a "t".
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Bob and Susan
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8813
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Mulege BCS on the BAY
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woops...again
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pacside
Nomad
Posts: 316
Registered: 1-16-2006
Location: N. Cal
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Woooosh
A concession comes with a title. One title per concession. Maybe if you joined his corporation he could casually "assign" you the parcel in front of
your house- but you wouldn't have any more legal rights than you do now. When the corporation changes it's mind- you are done. I'll bet he's not
offering it for free either- is he? Talk to Semanart and see what they say about it. The developer is working for his interests- not yours or he
wouldn't have called dibbs on the land to begin with.
A very important factor in concessions is knowing who is in "first" position for approval. A mexican holding clear title to land that is impacted by
the federal zone has first right to it when applying for a concession. (we supplied photos of the ocean water actually touching our house- so there
would be no doubt about "impact". ) Everyone else comes next- but Mexico City gives priority among that group to those who want to develop, not
protect, the land. Their thinking is that development creates jobs, helps the local economy, pays more taxes, etc.
At least that's how it works in Norte. |
Whoosh good info thanks. Actually developer did pull entire concession because he does want to protect his interests which are aligned with what I
want. It is so that the area doesn't become another Cancun or Playa del Carmen. He wants his development to be appealing and so wants to protect usage
of fmz areas.
He doesn't want to charge me anything but does want to 'transfer' the annual fee for the piece in front of my casa to me. The entire concession he has
is very costly to pay on an annual basis so I imagine his plan is to parcel the cost of it out to the individual parcel owners...now the question is
how to do that.
Yea a side deal could always be done but wouldn't have same assurances as having your very own concession. His suggestion is I form a corporation and
he put it in that...I think between developer and semarnat we'll come up with something that is agreeable to everyone.
pacside
[Edited on 6-19-2009 by pacside] edited to correct spelling of SEMARNAT
[Edited on 6-19-2009 by pacside]
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