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maspacifico
Nomad
Posts: 317
Registered: 4-22-2008
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Just curious if there is anyone else that shares the "no problem" point of view here. So far only one guy supports it....so the rest of us are lumped
under at least one of the following ..... can't fish......read a book other than the bible......came from California......hippies......sometimes swim
nude......have inhaled....
I think I've been insulted!
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Skeet/Loreto
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4709
Registered: 9-2-2003
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"Except for this year""
That is my whole point. Since April of last year I have been on the water several times. Each time I was amazxed at the number of Fish and Bait that I
observed and It was like it was 20 years ago.
Point being Pesador Why and Where did all these fish come from??????
If there has been so much over fishing :What Happened? Did a whole bunch of Fish stay outside of the Cortez and then last April come back>>>
Why are the Halibut and Cod Fisheries showing improvement.??
Pescador, I can agree that there is a Problem but I do not agree with the Tactics are the People who are trying to Force their way of thinking onto
the Mexicano Panga Fisherman. especially someone who has never fished the Sea but is influencied by Book Learing and Spam Artist.
These Tactics are insulting and unecessary.
It seems the only way I can help is try to get people that are reading these things is to Go and find out themselves.
Thanks for a Good Post.
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Cypress
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7641
Registered: 3-12-2006
Location: on the bayou
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Mood: undecided
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maspacifico, It's a waste of time to argue with Skeet. He's stuck on his Baja fishing from way back when. He caught some fish.
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Skeet/Loreto
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4709
Registered: 9-2-2003
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maspacifico}
Not old enough or smart enough to try to answer some of Question??
How can you Youngsters even think that your Grandchildren of the future are more important than The CHILDREN AND GRANDCHILDREN of the present Day
Fisherman.??
It is Absurd to think that you can take from the Poor and "Save it for your Grand Children""
Is that the way this Generation has been taught, if so please do not buy a New Car, save the money so that my Great Grandaughter can drive a New
Mercedes in the Future.
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Pescador
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3587
Registered: 10-17-2002
Location: Baja California Sur
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
"Except for this year""
Point being Pesador Why and Where did all these fish come from??????
If there has been so much over fishing :What Happened? Did a whole bunch of Fish stay outside of the Cortez and then last April come back>>>
Why are the Halibut and Cod Fisheries showing improvement.??
Pescador, I can agree that there is a Problem but I do not agree with the Tactics are the People who are trying to Force their way of thinking onto
the Mexicano Panga Fisherman. especially someone who has never fished the Sea but is influencied by Book Learing and Spam Artist.
These Tactics are insulting and unecessary.
It seems the only way I can help is try to get people that are reading these things is to Go and find out themselves.
Thanks for a Good Post. |
That is a great question and I will try to answer as clearly as I can. One of the great problems with assessing fish stocks or populations is that
at any given time we only see the icing on the cake so to speak. It is like trying to count icebergs when only 1/3 sticks above the water. When you
see a breezing school of yellowtail, it is easy to assume that there are lots of schools, which there used to be, when in reality the schools are
smaller, they occur less frequently, and the overall size has gone down.
The area I am most intimately aware of is the Santa Rosalia area and because I spend a lot of time on the water I have been able to observe that the
migrations of yellowtail occur less frequently than they did 10 years ago. When you are out there every day, you begin to see a pattern of size and
behavior which is indicative of a schools behavior and population. 10 years ago we had numerous schools all of the time and they were populated by a
mixture of schools. At this point we see migrations of one or two schools and all of the fish are what we call "cookie cutter" meaning the same or
similar size, similar behavior when hooked, and a similar or school type of feeding behavior. We had some schools that came in for a week or so at a
time but when they left, it now occurs that they are not replaced for sometimes up to a week or more. During those times I might have to travel 25 to
50 miles to find other areas with active schools and you knew immediately that the schools were different by the reasons discussed. Ten years ago
this was not the case because there were numerous schools that kept the population pretty consistent at all times and there was less need to move to
other areas as much as we have to today.
So do not misunderstand what I am saying here. I do not propose that the sea is fished out or that there are no stocks, but I am aware that the
catch rate is decreasing instead of increasing. Now the opposite should be the case since my abilities and the abilities of the native fisherman that
I associate with are improving all of the time, but the reality is that we are working harder and catching less.
Now complicate this with all of the other factors like tides, water conditions and temps like El Nino and La Nina years, the naturally occuring
situations that effect bait fish migrations, red tides, and the like and it is a very complicated situation, but I still feel it is safe to say that
we are in a general decline that I have personally felt and experienced. Is it dead? No, but it needs careful watching.
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Cypress
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7641
Registered: 3-12-2006
Location: on the bayou
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Mood: undecided
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Pescador, You know what you're talking about. You live and fish there 24/7/265
days a year. Only a fool would argue with you about the status of the Sea of
Cortez fisheries with you, but there's one born every day.
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Skeet/Loreto
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4709
Registered: 9-2-2003
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Very good Post Pescdor!
What affect did the mass taking of the Squid have on the Yellowtail and the Bait.??
What about the change in the Temp. of the water that lasted about two years??
Now that there are Billions of Shrimp out of Loreto in the deep water, How do you think it will effect the Dorado??
Could it be possible that the Shrimp could migrate North to San Felipe then maybe the Trotruva would come back. I think so.
Again the Point I do not think it is proper or very Nice of anyone from the States to Steal from the Poor Mexicano Fisherman of San Nicholas just so
maybe their Grandaughter will be able to catch a Dorado.
And for those Druggies/Nekid people posting on this Thread, How would you feel if the Mexican People decided they wanted to save all that DOPE for
their Grandchildren?? Would you stop smoking so that their Grandchildren might have it later??
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 18380
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
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Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
And for those Druggies/Nekid people posting on this Thread, How would you feel if the Mexican People decided they wanted to save all that DOPE for
their Grandchildren?? Would you stop smoking so that their Grandchildren might have it later?? |
Well, skeeter, your analogies are as wrong as your science. That dope doesnn't keep its potency if stored for a long time. So gotta smoke it up and
not delay
Also, it's a renewable crop, just need water and sun.
And why would they sstop exporting it? The economic engine must continue running
Funny how cranky old guys like skeeter and pescado are anti-science and anti-envor-activist.
Both love the wild and its resources, but hate the only people who make it their mission to organize and protect it.
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djh
Senior Nomad
Posts: 936
Registered: 1-2-2005
Location: Earth mostly. Loreto, N. ID, Big Island
Member Is Offline
Mood: Mellow fellow, plays a yellow cello...
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Trying to have a reasonnable conversation (or argue) with Skeet is impossible....
He is as absolute & self righteous in his views as any other absolutist.... who believes that things must absolutely be as he / she / they see it
or try to control it to be....
Buy him a cold bottle of "Shut the Puk Up". A Ballena would be best...
djh
Its all just stuff and some numbers.
A day spent sailing isn\'t deducted from one\'s life.
Peace, Love, and Music
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Skeet/Loreto
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4709
Registered: 9-2-2003
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DJH
Everyone must have the Right to Execise Their own Free Will and Accord"
Tha I am doing. I keep asking questions and the only one who can answer is pescador.
What is wrong with the rest of you "Young DOPE Smokers:\" Has the ?Weed clouded your mind that you can Think??
Anyway it has been a great Day, I must sign off, go feed the Horses and have a Two-Eyed Tequilla and wonder what will tommorrow bring.
Thanks again Pescador. Good Fishing.
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Cardon Man
Super Nomad
Posts: 1319
Registered: 8-28-2003
Location: Thetis Bank
Member Is Offline
Mood: !Al Chingaso!
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
Again the Point I do not think it is proper or very Nice of anyone from the States to Steal from the Poor Mexicano Fisherman of San Nicholas just so
maybe their Grandaughter will be able to catch a Dorado.
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Skeeter you may want to take note that many Mexican nationals are concerned about this issue of illegal commercial fishing. Take for example, Minerva
Saenz featured in the documentary. Furthermore...you seem to be defending the rights of corrupt Mexican "fat cats" to continue the illegal harvest and
sale of dorado that are worth a fortune to the people of Mexico as a sportfish. Very confusing.
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Cypress
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7641
Registered: 3-12-2006
Location: on the bayou
Member Is Offline
Mood: undecided
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Skeet/Loreto. Can you hear/read what Pescador and other fishermen are trying to tell you? It's good to think positive, but at some point it drifts over into the denial catagory.
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flyfishinPam
Super Nomad
Posts: 1727
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Loreto, BCS
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Mood: gone fishin'
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EXCELLENT! thank you for posting this. this is an excellent video for our captains to see at our next meeting. I will contact Minerva to see if I
can get a copy in espanol.
Skeet- if I weren't so busy I'd discuss this further but your opinions are opinions but the fact is our fisheries are being threatened in a big way.
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Cardon Man
Super Nomad
Posts: 1319
Registered: 8-28-2003
Location: Thetis Bank
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Right on Pam. Spread the word and share the video with your captains and anyone who will listen.
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Russ
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6742
Registered: 7-4-2004
Location: Punta Chivato
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| Quote: | Originally posted by mtgoat666
| Quote: | Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
And for those Druggies/Nekid people posting on this Thread, How would you feel if the Mexican People decided they wanted to save all that DOPE for
their Grandchildren?? Would you stop smoking so that their Grandchildren might have it later?? |
Well, skeeter, your analogies are as wrong as your science. That dope doesnn't keep its potency if stored for a long time. So gotta smoke it up and
not delay
Also, it's a renewable crop, just need water and sun.
And why would they sstop exporting it? The economic engine must continue running
Funny how cranky old guys like skeeter and pescado are anti-science and anti-envor-activist.
Both love the wild and its resources, but hate the only people who make it their mission to organize and protect it. |
Wow! you should reread your post when you're not high. I've not met Skeet yet and have met Pescador and he is the salt of the earth kind of guy. And
not a "cranky old guy". He, as I read his posts, is not an "anti-envor-activist". He said, "Now I do agree, that the lefties and environmental wackos
have oversold this whole idea in order to get you to send your money in and join in their feel-good orginizations that have very little if any effect
on what really goes on." & "I can name on one hand the number of conservation orginizations that actually seem to be doing anything at all for
their membership." That leads me to believe he spends is dollar, what's left of it, wisely. I joined several of those green orgs and learned later
they are talk or war. No discernible action towards improving fisheries in Baja. Their news letters sound like a condo pitch man. So I have a similar
attitude. Skeet, if you read his posts other than the condition of the fisheries, is a wealth of valuable info. He and I are just passionate in our
differing views.
Bahia Concepcion where life starts...given a chance!
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Skeet/Loreto
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4709
Registered: 9-2-2003
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That is the way to go!
Take the income from the Mexicano Fisherman, their Families and close down Pam's Business all for the sake of saying "We did It! we Convinced them
that they must not catch anymore Fish, they must be saved for our GrandDChildren.
Why do you think that you have a right to take the food from a Family's Table.?
You did it at Kalamath Falls, do you want to do the same with another Country??
The Commercial Fishing, The Panga Fishing has been going on for Years and will contuine to go on for many more years. When the fishes slow down the
Commercials will go elsewhere, then when the fishes increase they will be back. It is an Impossibility for all the fish in the pacific to be taken!!
So why do the Wimpy, weak-minded Individuals keep Hollarin "The Sky is Falling""? Because they want you to beleive all their BS, become involved and
send your money in so they can spend it on DOPE!
Why has no one but Pescadora answered the Questions. Do Not you Dummies have any thing to Offer???
Come on Smart Asses Answer the Questions or is it you are Internet Babies and Dopers who have never seen BAJA???
Notice: If a Bunch of you Dummies will offer up about $5,000 each for a 6 months trip from Bay of Los Angeles to Los Delores in the South, I will lead
you on a Great Adventure .
We will sleep on the Beach, Fish and observe during the Day, meet and talk with the Pangaeros and really learn the Sea of Cortez.
Will need at least 6 of you with the Balls to take the Adventure- No DOPE ALLOWED.
Skeet
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tripledigitken
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4848
Registered: 9-27-2006
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What organization is doing something meaningful to address the excessive commercial fishing in the Sea of Cortez?
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 18380
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
Member Is Offline
Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
Will need at least 6 of you with the Balls to take the Adventure- No DOPE ALLOWED.
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will you provide masseuse, vegeterian fare and top shelf liquor? or is this a live-off-the-land-hunter-gatherer proof of chicken-in-the-sea?
don't know about that no dope rule,...
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Cardon Man
Super Nomad
Posts: 1319
Registered: 8-28-2003
Location: Thetis Bank
Member Is Offline
Mood: !Al Chingaso!
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| Quote: | Originally posted by tripledigitken
What organization is doing something meaningful to address the excessive commercial fishing in the Sea of Cortez? |
Great question. But can anything meanigful be done at all? I find myself feeling quite pesemistic with regards to the future. The fish can rebound.
Of this I'm sure. But will we let them? I doubt it. So many hungry mouths to feed. So much money to be made killing the last of the great fishes.
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Pescador
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3587
Registered: 10-17-2002
Location: Baja California Sur
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
That is the way to go!
Take the income from the Mexicano Fisherman, their Families and close down Pam's Business all for the sake of saying "We did It! we Convinced them
that they must not catch anymore Fish, they must be saved for our GrandDChildren.
Why do you think that you have a right to take the food from a Family's Table.?
You did it at Kalamath Falls, do you want to do the same with another Country??
The Commercial Fishing, The Panga Fishing has been going on for Years and will contuine to go on for many more years. When the fishes slow down the
Commercials will go elsewhere, then when the fishes increase they will be back. It is an Impossibility for all the fish in the pacific to be taken!!
So why do the Wimpy, weak-minded Individuals keep Hollarin "The Sky is Falling""? Because they want you to beleive all their BS, become involved and
send your money in so they can spend it on DOPE!
Why has no one but Pescadora answered the Questions. Do Not you Dummies have any thing to Offer???
Come on Smart burros Answer the Questions or is it you are Internet Babies and Dopers who have never seen BAJA???
Notice: If a Bunch of you Dummies will offer up about $5,000 each for a 6 months trip from Bay of Los Angeles to Los Delores in the South, I will lead
you on a Great Adventure .
We will sleep on the Beach, Fish and observe during the Day, meet and talk with the Pangaeros and really learn the Sea of Cortez.
Will need at least 6 of you with the Balls to take the Adventure- No DOPE ALLOWED.
Skeet |
Shoot, sign me up, as long as we are not gonna have any long haired hippies smoking dope and waxing eloquently every night at the campfire about the
errors of right wing supremacists, this could be a good trip. Maybe we can get my buddy Cypress to go too and he will find out how good fishing can
get down there, shoot I will even share a couple of my secret places.
Russ said it better than anyone. I sent my money and they did nothing except have meetings and wave signs.
I send a few bucks to The Billfish foundation as they did a great job of working with the Mexican Legislature on the Shark Norma bill which was a
real disaster but these goofballs who did all the videos on Pistoleros in the Sea of Cortez have done, in my humble opinion, nada.
And Skeet, I agree, it is totally out of line for a bunch of Americans to want to come in and try to shut down fishing so that they have a few fish
to show off to their buddies when it is a life and death matter for the local fisherman. Whatever I don't eat that night goes to my buddy who is a
local fisherman and at least he is better able to feed his family and send his daughter to college in the hope that she might have a better life. But
I also know that it takes the two best fisherman I know to catch enough fish to even cover the tuition.
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