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woody with a view
PITA Nomad
Posts: 15939
Registered: 11-8-2004
Location: Looking at the Coronado Islands
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Mood: Everchangin'
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
Ken, yes, I do that too, and for the reason you cite. Always a good idea to stir up the lubricants in the diff.. etc. when off the pavement.
I am going to try the 4-wheel drive engaged thang next time on big washboard----but I am still dubious.
Barry |
Barry
this is a reason for you to head south and get off the black top..... if for some reason you need a strip of dirt to sample, PLEASE let me G'know!
i'll get you onto some fancy clay trails.
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Baja12valve
Nomad
Posts: 185
Registered: 7-12-2006
Location: Oak View
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I am going to try the 4-wheel drive engaged thang next time on big washboard----but I am still dubious.
Barry [/quote
It will be better, not perfect, but better. On washboard remember that the wheels are spending as much time in the air as on the ground, so the
handling will be squirrelly no matter what. It is with me. I find the truck "floating" and not as surefooted, but I still find it to be much better in
4wd vs. 2wd. Lower tire pressure and speed helps a lot, but I still do 40+. Stiff suspension is a bummer, all you do is rattle yourself to death.
Larger diameter tires help, they roll over stuff better. Maybe my weight helps, I don't know, but with my camper shell on, fully loaded, I push 8,000
lbs. Every vehicle set up is different, where I may shine, in other areas I don't. My truck is no sand buggy.
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64852
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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Barry, there is a difference in handeling when in 4WD at speed on a graded/ washboard road... It is much more secure when in 4WD... Really feel the
difference!
AWD... remember, there are FULL TIME 4WD syatems out there like Quadra Trac from Jeep, that are not the same as AWD... Then there are the really
sophisticated systems from Mercedes and Range Rover that have differencial selection, etc.
AWD also does not mean all 4 tires get power all the time... it means all up to all 4 can receive power, when needed for traction... Subarus and Audi
Quattros were some of the first AWD automobiles. Originally Subaru was the first passenger 4WD (1975ish), then added low range... then dropped 4WD for
the AWD system they offer (no low range). American Motors offered the Eagle 4WD cars after Subaru.
Today's 4WD trucks and SUVs offer the convenience of shift on the fly 4WD from inside the cab (part time 4WD) so you are in economic 2WD until you
need 4WD. With automatic locking hubs, no need to get out and perform that task either. AWD or full time 4WD vehicles, no need to shift into anything.
The car senses any wheel that looses traction and transfers the power to wheels with traction.
FOR BAJA backroad driving: 4WD trucks or SUVs would be the wiser choice, as they will have better ground clearance for rocky roads and will likely
have low range for any steep grades or tough conditions where slow, power crawling is needed. 4WD is made for off highway driving.
AWD is a superior handling traction system for cars on paved or wet/ icy/ gravel or graded roads... It should be fine in the sand with air pressure
lowered, but I would avoid any non-graded roads if you choose AWD for Baja because of ground clearance.
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toneart
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4901
Registered: 7-23-2006
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Mood: Skeptical
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My experience is with a Ford F150 4WD, so I cannot compare with AWD. My neighbor has a Saturn with AWD and he says it handles better in snow and ice
than 2WD.
When in the Northern Ca. mountains and in Baja, I drive on pavement and then hit long stretches of dirt roads. I am not off-roading per se, so I keep
the tires inflated for highway driving...around 36-41 PSI.
When on the dirt roads I encounter different kinds of road surface; washboard and/or potholes with rounded edges (usually not the axle breaking kind
you get with pavement), and sometimes deeper sandy areas. I put it into 4WD and it is always a smoother ride. I get better traction. Not so much
slipping and sliding around. The washboards are still bumpy, but they seem less so in 4WD.
Where 4WD really comes in handy is in snow. I get better traction. The main safety factor is to drive very s-l-o-w-l-y in icy conditions. You are no
safer in 4WD when you hit a patch of black ice. The key is to go slowly enough and anticipate the ice. Having your vehicle under control is much
easier when driving slowly. I have seen too many young "hot dogs" who pass you under dangerous conditions and then they end up in a head-on collision,
smashed into a tree, or over an embankment.
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TMW
Select Nomad
Posts: 10659
Registered: 9-1-2003
Location: Bakersfield, CA
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I always use 4WD when I get off the pavement for any distance. I think it handles better especially on sand roads. Another reason is when in 2WD there
is more of a tendency for the rear wheels to spin and with some of the roads I've encountered in Baja the rocks can be sharp causing damage to the
tires. 4WD less chance to spin the tires.
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
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Mood: optimistic
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How can allllllllllll you people refute my sage and learned advise on driving back country roads???? How embarrassing!!! 
I except the challenge (despite knowing that it is all bunk) and will try and impliment your advice next time out and about--------if you are right,
you probably will NEVER hear me admit it (unless bribed)
If I am RIGHT, then you will definitely hear about it-----------
Whoooo ahhhh!!!!
Barry
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Baja12valve
Nomad
Posts: 185
Registered: 7-12-2006
Location: Oak View
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No worries. If we hear nothing, we know we are right, your silence will speak volumes, LOL!!!
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64852
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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Barry, you got there and back home the way you did, just fine... no worries!
With the newer shift-on-the-fly 4WD we have, it is easy to be driving 40-50 mph on a sandy, washboard road and click it into 4WD from 2WD and notice
the difference in handeling, right away. You get a superior feel of control over your truck when it is in 4WD... less drifting or sliding.
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
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Mood: optimistic
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-------thanks guys, and bottom line is that "less drifting and sliding" is what we are all after.
Possibly my problem is that both my Baja proven rigs are solid axle old style 4x4's ('94 Ford F-250 & '89 Isuzu Trooper--both stick shift). Even
my 2007 X-terra Off-Road model does not have all the fancy new stuff on it, I don't think.
Thanks for keeping me honest. I need to drive one of these newer high-tech machines, I suppose.
Barry
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Baja12valve
Nomad
Posts: 185
Registered: 7-12-2006
Location: Oak View
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I would not be so quick to blame or diss the old solid axle set-up. Mine is that way, 96, solid axle Dana 60, stick shift. It works outstanding on
washboard roads. I think that suspension and tire combinations are very important in how the vehicle, any vehicle, will handle. I have in-cab
adjustable shocks. On washboard or semi-smooth dirt I make it as soft as possible allowing the wheels to travel when they hit something instead of
thumping over it. As I mentioned earlier, stiff suspension is a bummer.
My friend has the Off-Road X-terra and stock, he has the Eaton electric locker on the rear. The front is independent, but the differential is a open.
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BajaGringo
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3922
Registered: 8-24-2006
Location: La Chorera
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Mood: Let's have a BBQ!
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Another factor is weight over the rear axles. Pickups tend to get less traction from the rear wheels than SUV's - the added weight really does make a
difference...
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Neal Johns
Super Nomad
Posts: 1687
Registered: 10-31-2002
Location: Lytle Creek, CA
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Mood: In love!
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Uh, woody in ob,
The Psi on the tire sidewall is the Maximum safe pressure for that tire (determined by the manufacturer), not the recommended pressure. The
recommended pressure (for the tire supplied by the vehicle manufacturer for the particular vehicle) is on a placard on the front door jam and is
usually quite a bit lower than the Maximum pressure.
The carrying capacity of a tire increases with both size and pressure.
The traction increases with the contact patch area (which increases with lower pressure).
To sum up, if you have put on larger tires, you can air down to increase traction and also improve the ride quality since the tire asks as a spring
and still have the same weight carrying ability as the stock size tires.
An example of this in the real world is 4WD Club runs where the maximum pressure allowed is 18 Psi to reduce trail damage due to tire slippage. Most
of these vehicles have larger tires.
Off road race vehicles run around 35 Psi as a compromise between traction and rim cuts from hitting rocks, etc. at speed which push the tread up to
the rim when too low a pressure is used.
Old (very old) race engineer)
References for those who are interested:
Circle Track Magazine
Race Car Engineering Magazine
and a few of several dozen books on automobile/racing design in one of my bookshelves:
![CIMG0047 [800x600].JPG - 34kB](https://forums.bajanomad.com/files.php?pid=469338&aid=25023 "CIMG0047 [800x600].JPG - 34kB")
My motto:
Never let a Dragon pass by without pulling its tail!
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Cyanide41
Nomad
Posts: 303
Registered: 1-7-2009
Location: Tijuana
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Neal. Wouldn't 32psi be awfully LOW for a Max Psi?
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Baja&Back
Senior Nomad
Posts: 549
Registered: 9-10-2004
Location: Vancouver, Canada / todo de Baja
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Mood: Rarin' to go South!
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I think ALL OF YOUSE should get into your rigs and go test out these statements in BAJA, right now!!
C'mon now ...
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
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Mood: optimistic
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Cyanide41
Neal. Wouldn't 32psi be awfully LOW for a Max Psi? |
Struck me the same way.
Barry
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64852
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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My last set of tires were Toyos, now I am on a set of Cooper Discoverer ATRs... 265/70-16... nearly identical to the Toyos.
Max pressure listed on the sidewall: 44 PSI. Recommended pressure for my '05 4 door Tacoma listed in the door jam: 29 PSI front/ 32 PSI rear.
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Baja12valve
Nomad
Posts: 185
Registered: 7-12-2006
Location: Oak View
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I am always skeptical of "recommended" tire pressures from the factory. They are nothing more than a basic guideline. Different tires have different
sidewall structures and stiffness, it is not a "one size fits all" deal. I also find that the factory pressures tend to be low for ride comfort. My
Maximum pressure is 65 psi, cold. I run them front and rear at 60, not for comfort, but the wear pattern dictates that that is the correct pressure.
Anything lower I get cupping and excessive wear on the shoulder, more, I get excessive wear in the center. I started at 45, the "recommended "
pressure.
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bajalou
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4459
Registered: 3-11-2004
Location: South of the broder
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Just checked a couple of tires on my vehicles -
235-75-R15 Max. load 2025 at 35psi. Max pressure 35. Veh. recom. 35psi. Bronco II
31-1050-R15 Max load 2250 at 50 psi. Max pressure 50. Veh. Recom. 35 psi. Bronco
33-1250-R17 Max load 2025 at 35 psi. Max pressure 35. On desert rail so no veh recom. Tire is a off road tire. (Interco TrXus M/T).
235-85-R16 Max load 3415 at 80psi. Max. pressure 80. F350. Veh. Recom. 51 Front 80 Rear (BFG)
No Bad Days
\"Never argue with an idiot. People watching may not be able to tell the difference\"
\"The trouble with doing nothing is - how do I know when I\'m done?\"
Nomad Baja Interactive map
And in the San Felipe area - check out Valle Chico area |
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bajabass
Super Nomad
Posts: 2016
Registered: 10-4-2006
Location: La Paz,BCS
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Mood: Want to fish!!!
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Aired down, 2wd will get you almost anywhere. If you get stuck, then hit the magic button! My Tundras, 3 in 7 years, state that in wet/slippery
conditions, you can use 4wd hi, up to 65mph. The feeling of control is simply great. If the rear slips, the front pulls. If the front slips, the rear
pushes. Off road, I use 2wd till I get stuck, then use 4wd to get out and turn around. Aired down and "skimming" washboard fire roads is a blast! 4wd
hi has given me the best results. I am still running the crappy BFG Rugged Trail T/A's that came O.E. The 275/65/18 Dueller A/T Revos have to wait
until I can burn up these originals. The door sticker says 30psi F, 33psi R. Tires are rated 44psi max. I run 40 psi front and rear and for a crappy
tire, they work so-so.
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
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Mood: optimistic
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------I have destroyed 2 of those stock BFG Rugged Trails (only B rated), one a stick thru the sidewall, and the other a sharp rock thru the side
wall, in the last 6 months on my X-Terra. I gave up on them and I have gone to E rated BFG All Terrain TA KO's (the only one's available from BFG
for my size 265 x 75R 16's)----------we will see how they work. I carry about 35 to 40 lbs in them on the highway, and the ride is fine, and no
noise. 25 lbs off road.
(tech info: Neal John's) 
Barry
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