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DianaT
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| Quote: | Originally posted by JESSE
By the way, i should make it very clear, i am not blaming her for anything. But the guy wasn't just your regular scumbag as far as i am concerned.
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Yes, he is the regular scumbag for what he did, IMHO.
| Quote: | Originally posted by JESSE
So that means the guy cared and loved them, wich would in a way explain why he went nuts.
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Sounds like excusing him??
| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajahowodd
But, the trigger may really have been, at least according to the story, that the victim's live-in boyfriend was present. |
Poor guy couldn't help himself
OK, but you all say you are not blaming the victim, just trying to understand why----does not matter, he is a scumbag and her biggest mistake may have
been ever marrying him in the first place.
So, in the interest of fairness, there may be many, many reasons for why she did what she did----maybe it is all the husbands fault---maybe he is a
real creep who abused his wife in many ways. He obviously was capable of real violence. Maybe he drove her away.
On and on----but in the end, I would argue she was responsible for her decisions.
But the discussion seems to be one sided----what drove that poor man to do what he did.
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Packoderm
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Of course this discussion will need to set a reference based on how things overtly appear until further information is borne out, or there is no
discussion at all which would not suit us at all.
It would technically not be my fault if I was murdered for going to a biker bar, kicking over a long row of bikes and then laughed out loud about it.
However, I want to live, so I will not transgress so blatantly - even if my killers were certain to get the chair. She should have had the same
foresight, but affairs of the heart don't work that way.
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DianaT
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Packoderm
She should have had the same foresight, but affairs of the heart don't work that way. |
Or maybe, just maybe she wanted her education to escape being with a violent creep----maybe. Maybe she tried to leave him before, maybe---on and on.
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JESSE
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DianaT
Yes, he is the regular scumbag for what he did, IMHO. |
There is a diference betwen commiting a crime out of jealously or anger, and commiting a crime after going insane because you reached your breaking
point.
| Quote: | Originally posted by DianaT
Sounds like excusing him?? |
Understanding his breaking point is not excusing him for a horrible crime.
| Quote: | Originally posted by DianaT
Poor guy couldn't help himself
OK, but you all say you are not blaming the victim, just trying to understand why----does not matter, he is a scumbag and her biggest mistake may have
been ever marrying him in the first place.
So, in the interest of fairness, there may be many, many reasons for why she did what she did----maybe it is all the husbands fault---maybe he is a
real creep who abused his wife in many ways. He obviously was capable of real violence. Maybe he drove her away.
On and on----but in the end, I would argue she was responsible for her decisions.
But the discussion seems to be one sided----what drove that poor man to do what he did. |
This very same discussion has been going on at the Union Tribune website. So we are not alone.
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DianaT
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Jesse,
No, we are not alone in discussing it. I know you think the man went crazy---OK
But is it also possible he was a violent, abusing person who drove her to to what she did?
It is not uncommon for an abusive violent husband to kill a wife who leaves him. And that he did it in front of his children leads me to believe he
cared nothing about them.
That he cared for them while she was in school could also have more to do with control than caring---not uncommon for abusive husbands to want custody
and control of their children.
[Edited on 12-14-2009 by DianaT]
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Packoderm
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"There is a diference betwen commiting a crime out of jealously or anger, and commiting a crime after going insane because you reached your breaking
point."
Legally, that is a truism. We have different degrees of murder.
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Packoderm
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DianaT
Jesse,
It is not uncommon for an abusive violent husband to kill a wife who leaves him. And that he did it in front of his children leads me to believe he
cared nothing about them.
[Edited on 12-14-2009 by DianaT] |
Actually, that may work in his defense. If it was premeditated, he likely would have planned an attack away from sight.
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DENNIS
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I think Nomads should become a professional jury. We could just do away with the judge and expensive lawyers. Hang everybody. If anybody says, "Not
guilty." shoot them right where they stand.
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Dave
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Oh...Idonno
| Quote: | Originally posted by JESSE
she comes back pregnant, dumps you, takes the kids, starts living with the new man AND your kids under the same roof.
I would go nuts. |
Some men might consider it a blessing. 
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DianaT
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
I think Nomads should become a professional jury. We could just do away with the judge and expensive lawyers. Hang everybody. If anybody says, "Not
guilty." shoot them right where they stand. |
I love the George Carlin routine when he was called for jury duty and he told the judge that he could tell who was guilty everything just by looking
at their eyes---if there were too close together, GUILTY---no question about it.
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JESSE
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DianaT
Jesse,
No, we are not alone in discussing it. I know you think the man went crazy---OK
But is it also possible he was a violent, abusing person who drove her to to what she did?
It is not uncommon for an abusive violent husband to kill a wife who leaves him. And that he did it in front of his children leads me to believe he
cared nothing about them.
That he cared for them while she was in school could also have more to do with control than caring---not uncommon for abusive husbands to want custody
and control of their children.
[Edited on 12-14-2009 by DianaT] |
Its possible, thats why everything we are discussing is only valid in the context of the (very little) information provided. But having said that, you
have to admit that even if the guy was this and that. Leaving him, taking the kids, becoming pregnant with another mans baby, and moving with that new
guy with your kids in the span of one month, is sure a hell of a lot of pain for almost any man to endure.
Its hard for me to debate this, i feel the girl did not deserve what happened to her, but i don't think this guy was just your regular jealous killer.
Both lives where ruined and even do i feel much more grief for her because she lost everything, i do kind of feel bad for the guy as well.
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Stickers
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Packoderm
"There is a diference betwen commiting a crime out of jealously or anger, and commiting a crime after going insane because you reached your breaking
point."
Legally, that is a truism. We have different degrees of murder. |
Seems irrelevant since the result is the same.
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CaboRon
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Mood: Peacefull
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| Quote: | Originally posted by JESSE
| Quote: | Originally posted by DianaT
Jesse,
No, we are not alone in discussing it. I know you think the man went crazy---OK
But is it also possible he was a violent, abusing person who drove her to to what she did?
It is not uncommon for an abusive violent husband to kill a wife who leaves him. And that he did it in front of his children leads me to believe he
cared nothing about them.
That he cared for them while she was in school could also have more to do with control than caring---not uncommon for abusive husbands to want custody
and control of their children.
[Edited on 12-14-2009 by DianaT] |
Its possible, thats why everything we are discussing is only valid in the context of the (very little) information provided. But having said that, you
have to admit that even if the guy was this and that. Leaving him, taking the kids, becoming pregnant with another mans baby, and moving with that new
guy with your kids in the span of one month, is sure a hell of a lot of pain for almost any man to endure.
Its hard for me to debate this, i feel the girl did not deserve what happened to her, but i don't think this guy was just your regular jealous killer.
Both lives where ruined and even do i feel much more grief for her because she lost everything, i do kind of feel bad for the guy as well.
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Sounds as if you "understood" OJ as well
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JESSE
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| Quote: | Originally posted by CaboRon
| Quote: | Originally posted by JESSE
| Quote: | Originally posted by DianaT
Jesse,
No, we are not alone in discussing it. I know you think the man went crazy---OK
But is it also possible he was a violent, abusing person who drove her to to what she did?
It is not uncommon for an abusive violent husband to kill a wife who leaves him. And that he did it in front of his children leads me to believe he
cared nothing about them.
That he cared for them while she was in school could also have more to do with control than caring---not uncommon for abusive husbands to want custody
and control of their children.
[Edited on 12-14-2009 by DianaT] |
Its possible, thats why everything we are discussing is only valid in the context of the (very little) information provided. But having said that, you
have to admit that even if the guy was this and that. Leaving him, taking the kids, becoming pregnant with another mans baby, and moving with that new
guy with your kids in the span of one month, is sure a hell of a lot of pain for almost any man to endure.
Its hard for me to debate this, i feel the girl did not deserve what happened to her, but i don't think this guy was just your regular jealous killer.
Both lives where ruined and even do i feel much more grief for her because she lost everything, i do kind of feel bad for the guy as well.
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Sounds as if you "understood" OJ as well |
Totally different and not even comparable crimes.
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k-rico
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From the article:
"Witnesses told police that Jesus Arteaga knocked on the door of his wife’s apartment on Santa Alicia Avenue near East Palomar Street just before 8:30
p.m. Thursday. When she opened the door, he stabbed her with a long-blade hunting knife or fishing knife, Kennedy said."
Sounds like premeditated murder to me. Not a momentary fit of insanity.
[Edited on 12-14-2009 by k-rico]
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ELINVESTIG8R
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This sub-human piece of garbage killed the mother of their children and does not deserve to live among us. I can only hope he is killed during his
arrest.
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Packoderm
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Stickers
| Quote: | Originally posted by Packoderm
"There is a diference betwen commiting a crime out of jealously or anger, and commiting a crime after going insane because you reached your breaking
point."
Legally, that is a truism. We have different degrees of murder. |
Seems irrelevant since the result is the same. |
It looks like he brought the knife which is premeditated. He's in trouble if caught.
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Packoderm
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| Quote: | Originally posted by soulpatch
What a bunch of presumptuous BS.
There are a million maybes and a few of you simplify this to black and white, easy "answers".
How about more stereotyping? Maybe he was like so many of the Hispanics that I worked with up in the City of Oxnard that would keep their wives
knocked up in line while they partied it up with their girlfriends.
Maybe the a--hole deserved to be left.......none of you know any of this unless you knew these people personally.
Get a grip those of you with such righteous and fragile egos.
Weak. |
I'm leaning towards agreement with you. I guess we'll find out the particulars as they stream in. However, if I found out that my sister was going to
leave her kids in her husband's care for months while she went away to an academy, meet a new man at the academy, get pregnant with the new man while
away, come back announcing her wish to leave her husband, and take the kids, I'd caution her about her timing. Furthermore, if her husband was an
off-the-hook crazy buttcrack, I'd pray that she would handle it someway differently, and I'd pray for her safety, but I'd feel worried and dreadful.
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bajabass
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Mood: Want to fish!!!
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No matter what she did, he needs to be caught, tried by a jury, and executed!!!
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DianaT
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| Quote: | Originally posted by bajabass
No matter what she did, he needs to be caught, tried by a jury, and executed!!! |
Life in prison is, IMHO, is a far worse sentence----a very long slow death.
My thoughts and hopes are for the welfare of the children --- so very sad for them.
[Edited on 12-14-2009 by DianaT]
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