| Pages:
1
2
3 |
oldlady
Banned
Posts: 1714
Registered: 10-31-2005
Location: BCS
Member Is Offline
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by toneart
Tax it? Why?
1.Badly needed revenue source for economically depressed governments at all levels.
2. To mollify the moral Puritans...money will win them over! |
Musical one, the sensibilities of the moral Puritans have been battered to a bloody pulp for a century or more, they have no voice.
The money is the real issue.
If one of the reasons that goverments need money is that the drug war is so expensive, eliminate the war( legalize all drugs) and its expense
segment that adds strain to government budgets. That money is no longer required! Puritan or not, we are all paying a "drug tax" right now, and from
the sample of this board, most of us aren't deriving the "benefit" of use.
Taxing legal drugs raises the price point and promotes an underground market and continued drug trafficking. It doesn't receive a lot of press, but
more than a handful of people (lot of them on Medicare) traffic in prescription drugs because they get them for "free", paid for by insurance, and
then sell them. If Wal-mart teaches us anything it is that buyers will always seek the lowest price especially for products that can be virtually
commoditized.
[Edited on 5-15-2010 by oldlady]
|
|
|
Bajajorge
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2604
Registered: 10-13-2005
Location: Topaz Lake, NV/San Felipe
Member Is Offline
|
|
The war on drugs was lost years ago.
|
|
|
toneart
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4901
Registered: 7-23-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: Skeptical
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by oldlady
| Quote: | Originally posted by toneart
Tax it? Why?
1.Badly needed revenue source for economically depressed governments at all levels.
2. To mollify the moral Puritans...money will win them over! |
Musical one, the sensibilities of the moral Puritans have been battered to a bloody pulp for a century or more, they have no voice.
The money is the real issue.
If one of the reasons that governments need money is that the drug war is so expensive, eliminate the war( legalize all drugs) and its expense
segment that adds strain to government budgets. That money is no longer required! Puritan or not, we are all paying a "drug tax" right now, and from
the sample of this board, most of us aren't deriving the "benefit" of use.
Taxing legal drugs raises the price point and promotes an underground market and continued drug trafficking. It doesn't receive a lot of press, but
more than a handful of people (lot of them on Medicare) traffic in prescription drugs because they get them for "free", paid for by insurance, and
then sell them. If Wal-mart teaches us anything it is that buyers will always seek the lowest price especially for products that can be virtually
commoditized.
[Edited on 5-15-2010 by oldlady] |
O.L.,
I agree with most of this. Money is the main driver. The futile War on Drugs must end and thus, the money drain and the violence.But I still see the
moral Puritans all around us. They certainly do have a voice and are quite vocal and reactionary.
(A very timely sidenote: As I am writing, two male Jehovah's Witnesses came to my door. I have no tolerance for the intrusion on my property and
time. When I told them I am not interested, they persisted by asking me why not, and asked me what my religion is. I told them "That is none of your
business" and shut the door.) (I specified that they were male. Perhaps, if they were female and hot looking they could have raised my prurient
interest and been invited in for a lively discussion).   
Your Walmart example does prove a point. I do want a tax on legalized drugs though. I think it would help ailing governments, but with this
condition: tax and spend on social priorities.
When prohibition ended booze was taxed. All the bottles were sealed with a tax certificate. When opened, it was illegal to refill the bottles. This
was to prevent the loss of tax revenue on that bottle. Restaurants and bars were required to stick the bottle onto a metal peg and snap the neck. This
is no longer required. I would suppose that there are enough controls and regulatory inspections that this is no longer an issue, as the underground
market doesn't seem to exist.
Like you, I hate Medicare cheats. There has been and always be that element in our society. We have to do the best we can to catch them. The cost of
these transgressions must be realistically acknowledged and built in.
There will always be users looking to find the cheapest source. They can be prosecuted when caught. At least, the cartel and underground
traffic middlemen will be out of business and the violence ended.This is my main concern.
Individuals should still be allowed to grow their own, limited-by-law Marijuana for personal use. The Zig Zag Man shouldn't have to carry the stigma
of shame that has unjustly been put upon him by the moral Puritans. 
|
|
|
Mexicorn
Senior Nomad
Posts: 772
Registered: 9-15-2009
Member Is Offline
|
|
Legalize pot-
|
|
|
Packoderm
Super Nomad
Posts: 2116
Registered: 11-7-2002
Member Is Offline
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by Mexicorn
Legalize pot- |
Yes we can.
|
|
|
Cypress
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7641
Registered: 3-12-2006
Location: on the bayou
Member Is Offline
Mood: undecided
|
|
The main reason pot hasn't been legalized is that it's too easy to grow. Pretty hard to tax a weed that can grow just about anywhere, even in the
National Forest. Making moonshine whiskey, on the other hand, is way more complicated.
|
|
|
Packoderm
Super Nomad
Posts: 2116
Registered: 11-7-2002
Member Is Offline
|
|
How To Grow Tobacco
http://www.growtobacco.net/how-to-grow-tobacco
It doesn't seem to be a widespread phenomenon. I do not believe that many people grow their own pot in the Netherlands either. Once it's legally
available and convenient here, growing it will be more of a hobby. It is a nice looking plant though.
|
|
|
oldlady
Banned
Posts: 1714
Registered: 10-31-2005
Location: BCS
Member Is Offline
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by toneart
O.L.,
I (A very timely sidenote: As I am writing, two male Jehovah's Witnesses came to my door. I have no tolerance for the intrusion on my property and
time. When I told them I am not interested, they persisted by asking me why not, and asked me what my religion is. I told them "That is none of your
business" and shut the door.) (I specified that they were male. Perhaps, if they were female and hot looking they could have raised my prurient
interest and been invited in for a lively discussion).
|
You? Prurient interests? Or are you just tooting your horn?
I think you're rationale for tax is sound. In the main, I support a certain amount of taxation. The intent, application, distribution and unitended
consequences of taxes is where I sometimes have issues.
That's a topic for another day that is going to come all too soon. 
|
|
|
toneart
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4901
Registered: 7-23-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: Skeptical
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by oldlady
| Quote: | Originally posted by toneart
O.L.,
I (A very timely sidenote: As I am writing, two male Jehovah's Witnesses came to my door. I have no tolerance for the intrusion on my property and
time. When I told them I am not interested, they persisted by asking me why not, and asked me what my religion is. I told them "That is none of your
business" and shut the door.) (I specified that they were male. Perhaps, if they were female and hot looking they could have raised my prurient
interest and been invited in for a lively discussion).
|
You? Prurient interests? Or are you just tooting your horn?
|
|
|
|
GrOUper-GAr
Nomad
Posts: 107
Registered: 1-9-2010
Member Is Offline
|
|
When I go Buy My 1/8 of weed, it goes something like this...
1...I Look through our Weekly rags. In San Diego that's CityBeat(liberal) or theREADER(neo-con). note: BOTH the papers have the back 3+ glossy Pages
packed with Weed ads. Even theReader is sucking that 'strait' money T!T. I thumb through for the best COUPONS !! Yep, coupons... A 'war' con$umers ALL
like, the 'PRICE WaR'...so actually, Miss OldLady, the Prices are being Driven Down.
2...then, i Cruise to my favorite Dispensery (which used to to be a Bank, then was empty for years, and NOW the Building owner is Making Rent money
again... No SH!T'n, it was a BANK!)
3... I now have the choice of 20+ internationally known strains (that don't smell like Gas OR have blood on the hands).... hmmm, I may choose JACK
HERER (2 time Cannabis Cup winner), but maybe not. I may get some Hash and/or edibles too, Who knows? ? ? BUT one thing is for sure, Working behind
this counter Kicks A$$ over working at Wallmart.
4... Menu Price for this strain is $55, not bad, cause 'green bud' has been $50-$60 for 25 years, and not as good. Then SHE (raising ToneArt's
prurient interest-for sure) rings me up and its (oh, minus my $5 coupon) a grand total of $50 !!! Yes, $50 for the WORLD's BEST WEED (in pristine
condition)!!!! ... I hand over $50 even, and casually look at my receipt, then LOW & Behold, I start to Laugh...
$4.50 OF IT IS TAX !!!
if this is a PROBLeM,
I WANT TO BE PART OF THE PROBLEM !
! PrEFeRiR!A eSTaR eN baJa !
|
|
|
Packoderm
Super Nomad
Posts: 2116
Registered: 11-7-2002
Member Is Offline
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by GrOUper-GAr
When I go Buy My 1/8 of weed, it goes something like this...
1...I Look through our Weekly rags. In San Diego that's CityBeat(liberal) or theREADER(neo-con). note: BOTH the papers have the back 3+ glossy Pages
packed with Weed ads. Even theReader is sucking that 'strait' money T!T. I thumb through for the best COUPONS !! Yep, coupons... A 'war' con$umers ALL
like, the 'PRICE WaR'...so actually, Miss OldLady, the Prices are being Driven Down.
2...then, i Cruise to my favorite Dispensery (which used to to be a Bank, then was empty for years, and NOW the Building owner is Making Rent money
again... No SH!T'n, it was a BANK!)
3... I now have the choice of 20+ internationally known strains (that don't smell like Gas OR have blood on the hands).... hmmm, I may choose JACK
HERER (2 time Cannabis Cup winner), but maybe not. I may get some Hash and/or edibles too, Who knows? ? ? BUT one thing is for sure, Working behind
this counter Kicks A$$ over working at Wallmart.
4... Menu Price for this strain is $55, not bad, cause 'green bud' has been $50-$60 for 25 years, and not as good. Then SHE (raising ToneArt's
prurient interest-for sure) rings me up and its (oh, minus my $5 coupon) a grand total of $50 !!! Yes, $50 for the WORLD's BEST WEED (in pristine
condition)!!!! ... I hand over $50 even, and casually look at my receipt, then LOW & Behold, I start to Laugh...
$4.50 OF IT IS TAX !!!
if this is a PROBLeM,
I WANT TO BE PART OF THE PROBLEM ! |
Good post. It would seem that the edible option would take away much of the health risk. The legal dispensary sounds much more dignified than getting
it on the street.
|
|
|
Santiago
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3512
Registered: 8-27-2003
Member Is Offline
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by Packoderm
I do not believe that many people grow their own pot in the Netherlands either. |
Do you know what the production and distribution systems are for pot in those countries where it is legal? I'm wondering if they have been
assimilated into the normal systems for consumer products or if it is completely separate?
|
|
|
Bajajorge
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2604
Registered: 10-13-2005
Location: Topaz Lake, NV/San Felipe
Member Is Offline
|
|
I guess the pot heads are all feeling warm and fuzzy as Marijuana is being legalized all over the country under the guise of medical treatment. So all
of a sudden they all have some mysterious illness that can only be cured my MJ. Gimmee a break.
What the hell, lets all throw our arms in the air and say screw it, make everything legal.
|
|
|
Santiago
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3512
Registered: 8-27-2003
Member Is Offline
|
|
Interesting viewpoint from the growers of pot in northern California. From the Sacto Bee a few weeks ago.
LAYTONVILLE – Along Mendocino County's Redwood Highway, just beyond the sign depicting a hovering alien spaceship, veteran marijuana cultivator Tim
Blake sees the future.
He views his Area 101 spiritual retreat as the answer to the looming upheaval for a renowned California pot-growing region challenged by a November
state ballot initiative to legalize marijuana for adult recreational use and new growing techniques.
Blake hopes his roadside haven, where local marijuana tenders gather to share smokes and tales of the harvest, will emerge as a nostalgic tourist draw
– a destination honoring Mendocino's proud pot traditions.
California produces one-third of America's pot, with an estimated $13.8 billion cash crop, counting legal medicinal grows and vast illicit production.
In this county of 90,000 people, it is an uncomfortable topic. Most civic leaders would rather talk about the enchanting Mendocino Coast, the
picturesque mountains and the charming towns.
But weed fuels the regional economy.
"There are people who don't want to talk about it because that may seem as if they're endorsing it," said Bert Mosier, chief executive officer of the
Chamber of Commerce in the county seat of Ukiah. "But this affects our community."
It isn't just the November initiative that has upset the area's pot culture and stirred calls for new approaches.
Blake and others say the local market is already in free fall. Across California, legal medical marijuana dispensaries and indoor hydroponics
warehouses that grow high-potency pot are undercutting Mendocino's outdoor crop.
For years, most Mendocino cultivators have grown their "Northern Lights" and "Super Skunk" strains beneath the stars and coastal redwoods.
Increasingly, their weed can't compete with the high-octane "Purple Urkles" and "OG Kushes" that flower under glowing indoor lamps.
Pot from Mendocino County fetched more than $5,000 a pound just a decade ago. Now it goes for closer to $2,000, Blake says.
"Most people up here are growing," he said. "And for every grower, you support the gas station, the dry cleaners, the health food store. But
everybody's numbers are down. Nobody has any money."
On Saturday, scores of Mendocino marijuana growers and local officials met in Ukiah to ponder the impact on the county if California voters decide to
legalize marijuana beyond current medical use. They brainstormed remedies to economic fallout, including promoting pot tourism and branding local
medicinal products to bring recognition to Mendocino's crop and its tenders.
Anna Hamilton, a Mendocino musician who hosts a radio talk show in neighboring Humboldt County, warned that the "legalization of marijuana will be the
single most devastating event" to hit the region.
But Matthew Cohen, a Mendocino grower whose Northstone Organics delivers pot to medical marijuana patients in Northern California, saw an economic
opportunity. "Mendocino can have a hand-picked, boutique market," he said.
'Way of life' threatened?
Pebbles Trippet, a strictly small-time grower, says many cultivators are "worried their way of life is going to be taken away from them."
Trippet, who served jail time for pot-related offenses in three Northern California counties before she settled in Mendocino, organically farms
onions, garlic, squash and medical pot on a small riverfront parcel in Cloverdale.
Others see legalization as an opportunity to reshape Mendocino's illicit culture into a legal attraction. They envision Mendocino and neighboring
Humboldt County blossoming with smoke fests and meet-the-growers tours, recasting itself as the Napa Valley of pot.
"People in Mendocino County know a better way and they're ready to show it," said Marvin Levin, 35, president of the Mendocino Farmers Collective, a
new union of medical pot growers. The collective hopes to market Mendocino's outdoor pot as environmentally sustainable cultivation.
Levin contends that indoor operations, many in or near cities, leave a substantial carbon footprint with excessive electricity use, fertilizers dumped
into sewage systems and buildings damaged with moisture and mold.
Indoor cultivators, a minority in Mendocino, use controlled environments to produce multiple cycles a year of thick-budding designer pot strains.
Outdoor growers have one large harvest producing plants 12 to 16 feet high.
At harvest time, Area 101 sponsors an annual "Emerald Cup" – honoring the best local pot. No indoor product is allowed. Levin says last year's winner
was a special "Cotton Candy Kush." He calls it "a sweet-flavored weed" that is "less musty" than a similar "Diesel Kush" grown indoors.
Tradition of illegal growing
Mendocino's effort to honor its pot traditions belies its long – and continuing – role in criminal marijuana cultivating and trafficking.
Blake admits he used to illicitly truck thousands of Mendocino pot plants for distribution in the San Joaquin Valley. He says he quit the illegal
trade after he was spooked by a series of federal raids. "I went from a kingpin to a no-pin," he says.
Now Blake, a 53-year-old cancer survivor, has a county permit to grow 99 medical marijuana plants, the maximum allowed on large acreage. The county
allows 25 plants on parcels of five acres or less, if grown for multiple medical users.
But many growers have neither pretense of medical cultivation nor care about limits. Last September, sweeps by federal, state and local narcotics
officers resulted in the arrests of numerous local residents illegally cultivating several hundred plants each in mountainous terrain near
Laytonville.
Local grower James Taylor Jones, a grizzled Grateful Dead fan who came to the county nine years ago with his wife, Fran Harris, is a recovering drug
addict and alcoholic. He quit cocaine 25 years ago and gave up drinking 16 years ago. He regularly attends Alcoholics Anonymous meetings, yet says he
is a spiritual devotee to using and cultivating pot for medical purposes.
Jones and Harris, who also run a Laytonville tie-dye T-shirt shop, are part of the Humboldt Farmers Collective and have provided products for
dispensaries in Mill Valley and San Francisco. They said they made $55,000 in the pot business last year. They reported it to the Internal Revenue
Service as "farm income."
Jones says they're in this lifestyle to stay "no matter what the profit is." But he opposes legalizing recreational use. He believes it will drive
other growers out of Mendocino County.
"If it's legalized, the market is going to plummet. There's no question," he said.
But then Jones added: "Who the hell are we to say who can have pot?"
© Copyright The Sacramento Bee. All rights reserved.
|
|
|
castaway$
Senior Nomad
Posts: 742
Registered: 7-31-2007
Location: Gold Hill, Oregon
Member Is Offline
Mood: Fish on!
|
|
Whether you like it or not, whether you use it or not the legalization of Marijuana is a reality. California is leading the way and many other states
will follow or if by some quirk it isn't legalized in California Oregon or some other state will push it through and most will follow.
What will happen? Well the infrastructure for growing, processing, distribution, sales and yes taxing is basically in place as evidenced by the
current "stores" already selling to the "medical" users.
So why would the general user be compelled to buy from the controlled retail outlet? Same as alcohol, bring in the Wal Mart principal it will come
down to volume, mass production, distribution and marketing, simply put they will sell for less than the backyard farmer. The tobacco companies are
already buying up No. Cal land for farms, lets face it their industry is in decline so what a great opportunity to revive themselves by adding Mary
Jane to there marketing plan, millions want it and they have the farming and marketing know how already. It's going to happen (IMO) and we will see if
it will actually control the illicit nature of this particular drug and in turn curb the violence associated with this drug by putting the money
(cause thats what it's really about) into corporate hands.
Corporate hands--------- Thats another problem to be tackled by different and untested solutions, however the same, it's all about MONEY!
Live Indubiously!
|
|
|
k-rico
Super Nomad
Posts: 2079
Registered: 7-10-2008
Location: Playas de Tijuana
Member Is Offline
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajajorge
What the hell, lets all throw our arms in the air and say screw it, make everything legal. |
In every practical sense, pot is legal in CA. San Diego medical pot storefronts are stepping all over each other selling the stuff. Pot stores are
beginning to outnumber coffee shops. Check out the last several pages of The Reader, a free weekly rag that's been around forever, 1/4, 1/2
page color ads for all kinds of pot and "edibles". Tell the doc associated with the store you have insomnia and you have a Rx.
I haven't seen any medical pot store profit stats but I bet they're raking it in, nice medical specialty if you're a lazy MD. I think it's $60 an 1/8
with specials for first time customers.
But legalize everything?
IMHO legalizing dangerous, addicitve drugs is a real bad idea. Pot is neither dangerous (bad for your lungs tho) nor addictive (for most people).
[Edited on 5-16-2010 by k-rico]
|
|
|
Packoderm
Super Nomad
Posts: 2116
Registered: 11-7-2002
Member Is Offline
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by Santiago
| Quote: | Originally posted by Packoderm
I do not believe that many people grow their own pot in the Netherlands either. |
Do you know what the production and distribution systems are for pot in those countries where it is legal? I'm wondering if they have been
assimilated into the normal systems for consumer products or if it is completely separate? |
Companies grow it in greenhouses. It is actually tolerated - not legal. Some Christian groups in Holland have become unhappy that pot has become
boring for Dutch youth thus things have become boring for the prohibitionists. Pot use among Dutch youth is lower than neighboring countries. There is
a lack of a problem that would otherwise need fixing by the Christian saviors. The real danger comes from visitors to the Netherlands from repressive
countries. For instance, some from the emerging middle class in China are visiting Amsterdam and are becoming enchanted with freedom. The governments
from the corresponding repressive countries are not too happy about this. The local mayors of Dutch cities continue to champion these freedoms, but
the Dutch central government is feeling the heat from conservative Christian groups and leaders of repressive countries.
http://www.francogrow.com/web2/pages/grow-area/12-countries-...
|
|
|
Packoderm
Super Nomad
Posts: 2116
Registered: 11-7-2002
Member Is Offline
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by k-rico
| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajajorge
What the hell, lets all throw our arms in the air and say screw it, make everything legal. |
In every practical sense, pot is legal in CA. San Diego medical pot storefronts are stepping all over each other selling the stuff. Pot stores are
beginning to outnumber coffee shops. Check out the last several pages of The Reader, a free weekly rag that's been around forever, 1/4, 1/2
page color ads for all kinds of pot and "edibles". Tell the doc associated with the store you have insomnia and you have a Rx.
I haven't seen any medical pot store profit stats but I bet they're raking it in, nice medical specialty if you're a lazy MD. I think it's $60 an 1/8
with specials for first time customers.
But legalize everything?
IMHO legalizing dangerous, addictive drugs is a real bad idea. Pot is neither dangerous (bad for your lungs tho) nor addictive (for most people).
[Edited on 5-16-2010 by k-rico] |
Is there any other medical treatment that is less expensive? The profit margin is slim for Dutch coffeshops due to competition, but I would imagine
that those in financial power in the U.S. are less in favor of a free market.
|
|
|
Bajahowodd
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9274
Registered: 12-15-2008
Location: Disneyland Adjacent and anywhere in Baja
Member Is Offline
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by Packoderm
Is there any other medical treatment that is less expensive? The profit margin is slim for Dutch coffeshops due to competition, but I would imagine
that those in financial power in the U.S. are less in favor of a free market. |
Does anyone really think that if it gets legalized, that it won't eventually be controlled by either big tobacco, big pharma, big alcohol, or a
combination thereof? The initial problem will be that it will still be illegal under federal law, and the feds will bring a great deal of pressure on
any entity that tries to produce and sell it commercially.
|
|
|
Cypress
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7641
Registered: 3-12-2006
Location: on the bayou
Member Is Offline
Mood: undecided
|
|
Bajahowodd, Seeds! You can plant your own crop. Big pharma, big
brother? They'll be out of the loop.
|
|
|
| Pages:
1
2
3 |
|
![[*]](images/xmbforum/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
