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wilderone
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3824
Registered: 2-9-2004
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"Might be that it will be necessary for the Envior-nuts to get together and have a 'Loreto Clean-up Day'. "
Skeet, I think you have a real problem with anyone that will lift a finger to help alleviate "earthly" problems. Why would one have to be an
enviro-NUT to look around and see a mess and clean it up - regardless of who created the mess? That's just common sense. Personally, I don't
understand people who choose to live among rusted tin cans, rotting tires, plastic trash bags and plastic oil cans strewn all over, etc., but just
because someone else makes another choice to CLEAN IT UP doesn't make that person a NUT! Why don't you coordinate a Loreto Clean Up Day yourself? Be
an asset to your community. And lose the labels - they're outdated, feckless and useless rhetoric - you're only labeling yourself as unenlightened
and disrespectful. Just do the right thing.
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jrbaja
Ultra Nomad
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Sin Nombre
I haven't been to Bahia de los Angeles in probably 12 years or so. My neighbors have family that live there full time and we have a standing
invitation.
It is not a part of Baja that I am interested in seeing anymore. I did enjoy it before it became what it is now, just another gringo enclave like
the one I live in in Rosarito.
Edited because, "Sheesh, it's been 12 or 13 years since we were there". My how time flies. I thought it was getting crowded back then !
These kind of places are so unlike Baja and a real Mexican village that personally, I think you can get more culture at Olvera Street.
[Edited on 8/2/2004 by jrbaja]
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jrbaja
Ultra Nomad
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Grover
Prefriggencisely.
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Bob H
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Registered: 8-19-2003
Location: San Diego
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Germanicus
If they start to get smarter and do something for to boost tourism and for to earn some better money, then "it" might be going into the right
direction.
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I have noticed during our last couple of trips to Baja Sur that there is a much cleaner appearance than I remembered, say, five or six years ago. My
wife and I recently camped for a couple of days along the shore of San Lucas cove. There was a Mexican couple there, probably in their early 30's,
with a small child - tent camping just a couple of camp sites away from ours. After we had just set up camp and put our chairs out I immediately
noticed the Mexican father of that little child walking along the shore collecting trash that had washed up. He did this for about and hour placing
each arm load into the trash drums provided and then rejoined his family. That was impressive. And, I think you will see more of this from the
younger Mexican generation, etc.
Bob H 
The SAME boiling water that softens the potato hardens the egg. It's about what you are made of NOT the circumstance.
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JESSE
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Most Baja towns simply have a dump outside of town where they dump their trash, and i am sad to admit that many many Mexicans are not the most clean
people on this earth.
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David K
Honored Nomad
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Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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JR, Bahia de L.A. is a small MEXICAN fishing town with very few full time gringos (Beach Bob, Herman, and Larry are the only ones I know). The food at
the taco stands and restaurants is great, there is a variety of camping and motel options, and it is mostly a quiet place. I don't understand your
opinion of it and it is no way like Rosarito, no way... Almost no English is spoken, so great to practice espanol!
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Skeet/Loreto
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4709
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one
You have taken the use of a very common used Word and taken offense, which was not to be offensive but descriptive!!
In 1968 at the beautifull Bay at Escondio, south of Loreto, the Tourists would not carry away their Trash, so the Govt. moved them off the Beach and
fixed it to where there "Was no more Beach" Result: Tripui, which is now no more!!
Changing the Nature of the Mexican people lies within their Ability to do So, not the Right of the Guest to to insist that they change for His self.
The Envior-Nuts who came to Loreto have demonstrated their desire to have a beautifull location and have kept their Places Clean{Such as Villas de
Loreto}. Their actions have not changed the habit of the Mexican People, so if you People who cannot live as the Mexicano does, then go out and
demonstrate by cleaning up Loreto!!
I now live near the City of Dos Palos California which is just as bad with Trash as Loreto! As i drive into Town , the Houses along Valeria are
crammed with Old Cars and Junk.
Answer:If people do not have the "Common Sense" to Pick up their own Trash, How to you propose to teach them to do So?
The same Trash litters the Beaches of Lake Havasu City Az. to the point the Govt. had to come in and remove the Sand on one Beach because of E-coli!
It just seems to me that the People "Crying the most about "Clean Up" never take any Action,
I just happen to Accept People as they Are, Faults and All.
Skeet/Loreto
"In God I Trust"
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wilderone
Ultra Nomad
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"It just seems to me that the People "Crying the most about "Clean Up" never take any Action,
I just happen to Accept People as they Are, Faults and All"
Seems to me you disparage anyone's effort at clean up or anything else that's not self-serving. Last May I went to Las Pintas. I had also been there
in November. In November the upper campsite was clean. In May, the place was burned down, and there was styrofoam plates and cups strewn about, tin
foil, bottle caps, plastic bottles and cigarette butts laying about. I picked it all up and took it home because I cannot accept all people's faults.
Two years ago I kayaked to several islands in BOLA and picked up trash on the 3 islands that I went to because it was an eyesore, a disappointment
and many trash items are dangerous to wildlife which I have a deep respect for - more so than ignorant humans with their many faults. In recent
years, I have paid money to maintain hiking trails, extract non-native plants in places where they do much harm and have revegetated an alpine lake on
the Olympic Penin. which I had to backpack to. Last January I picked up a sackful of trash and broken glass at Agua Caliente hotsprings and brought
it home and picked up a lot of trash at Laguna Hansen and put it in the new trash cans there. Anytime I go camping or hiking, I leave it cleaner than
I found it. I only relate the above to prove you wrong. Complacency is a damaging human fault which I cannot accept.
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jrbaja
Ultra Nomad
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That's highly commendable Wilder
Now if only the rest of us could follow suit !! If nothing else, it sets a good example for many who would question the majority of our acts as
gringos
David, I know you have been coming down here as long as I have. I think we were doing different things at the same times as I am so much older. One
of the things that we used to do was go to these places when they were just that. Sleepy little MEXICAN fishing villages.
To call Bahia de los Angeles that nowadays is quite a stretch but I guess it's a matter of perspective. Compared to Rosarito, it is definitely
"sleepier".
Most of the people that live in Mexico, have pretty much adapted to a more Mexican way of life which is why they are accepted and love it here.
It is the visiting tourists that create havoc. Most all of them bring their gas powered toys and feel free to use them wherever. There have been so
many ATV accidents down here that I would be extremely surprised if everyone on this board didn't have a story.
And then there is the gringo attitudes. Many are afraid of, or look down on their Mexican neighbors. And it shows. This isn't just Bahia de los
Angeles of course.
And then there is the drinking. It seems as though most every tourist that comes to Baja loves to get drunk. It's vacation time, no? I understand
completely.
Unfortunately, when you go to the gringo enclaves, there's a whole bunch of em getting drunk. And nine times out of ten, there's some character with
a lamp shade on his head, starting fights, or trying to blow off fireworks or some other idiotic thing that wouldn't be done if not drunk. But it's
Mexico, what the heck. Right ?
I like to think that the people I see acting this way don't act this way at home but watching the news from up there really makes me wonder!
True, it's not just Bahia de los Angeles, that's just the most famous and largest of many. But the same things are occuring at all of them.
Which is why I personally don't enjoy going to them anymore. Maybe because I now live in one. hahahahahaha
Part time !!
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bajalera
Super Nomad
Posts: 1875
Registered: 10-15-2003
Location: Santa Maria CA
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Seems to me Bob H got it right, back there where he said there was less trash than there used to be. It's obvious that Mexicans are working on the
problem (at least in the Sur).
There are now trash cans along Highway One, with signs that point out their locations before you get to them (and Gringos aren't the only ones using
them). You also see work crews picking up litter alongside the road.
There's been a noticeable change of attitude over the past five years or so, even though Mexico doesn't have unlimited funds to devote to waste
management.
bajalera
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Skeet/Loreto
Ultra Nomad
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One
I Appauld you for your Efforts to clean up after those that do not have the Sense or desire to do the Same. But to bad mouth a Country and its people
for their Culture, Speaks of "I am right, you are Wrong" Theory.
I hiked the Sierras for many years and left because of the Pollution of a Group of 30 to 40 Sierra Club Members, Dancing, Drinking, Swimming in the
Creek all Nude while smoking DOPE! All under the quise of doing an inspection of the Trails to measure the yearly depth of that Trail.
It is my suggestion that you go to Loreto, then out to the dump, contact Alex and Ericka and watch as they go through the Trash looking for Cans to
sell for Propane for their Family.{ages 13 and 14}.
Try spending some time an effort with the Young Children , demonstrating to them their need to dispose of their Trash.
On my recent Trip to Loreto I talked to an "Older Gentleman} who is trying to set up a Trash Collection and proper Dump in La Purismua, San Ysrido. He
is going to take a small Front Loader, dig Holes and teach the Locals how , He was a Sewer Plant Tech. in the States.
The Envior-Nuts in the States have been successful in many Locations, My wife has expended over $75,000.00 to clean up a Piece of Property that nither
her Father or Grandfather had anything to do with it being a USD Site{not Tax Money}.
She did that because it was the Right thing to do.
You should spend more of your time with the Young People, teaching, that is the way you can make inroads!
An effort to be Good Neighbors is a Start!
Skeet/Loreto
Anon The Preacher
"In God I Trust"
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burro bob
Nomad
Posts: 264
Registered: 3-15-2004
Location: Poblado del Ejido Plan National Agrario
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Germanicus
Your questions, while naive, are good ones. Keep asking. You can see from the responses here that you have hit on a real hot button topic.
No, Lower California is not all one big dump. There are lots of unspoiled places left. But anywhere close to a population center you will find
garbage.
The people are becoming much more conscience of the trash. Mexicali and San Felipe both are trying very hard to clean things up. The younger
generation is becoming very eco aware.
You will only be able to control land that you own. You won't be able to change the actions of your neighbors with words alone. Some campos around
here do a good job of collecting garbage, El Dorado Ranch in particular should be singled out for the responsible way they gather and dispose of their
garbage. Other campos just have some vague area, usually across the highway, where they dump.
I live in the poblado section of Ejido Plan Nal. Agraio about 4 lots away from an aroyo. They are quarrying red dirt from there. As they dig out an
area some of the locals, Mexican and Gringos alike, are dumping their garbage there. My neighbor, an Ejido member, along with several others
complained at one of the Juntas (Ejido Meetings). They werte told there already is a law against dumping there and he should just call the cops
(something no Mexican would ever do unless it involved a dead body). The Ejido doesn't have any money to hire a trash cop. When the pile get big
enough we'll just burn it ourselves.
No one here on this board will deny there is a trash problem in BC, it's just that most of us can look past it.
burro bob
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Germanicus
Nomad
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burro bob, here comes an even far more 'naive' question (you might call it silly)
as I want to construct an RV-Park, the problem covers me quite automaticly(not:automatically) What to do with the trash of a single day?
Having maybe 30 or 50 'lots' where an RV can be parked, that collects quite an amount of trash every day.
Now my question:
Is the "Mexican State" (whoever that might be, the Feds or the Locals) willing to sacrifice some land for converting it into a dumpground for
everybodys use > benefit to the locals as well and I am managing that dumpground by providing a dozer, opening what needs to be done, filling in and
covering again after (?) years.
Yes I know, that depends on where I am, what town.
I mean I would like to hear your opinion if that MIGHT be possible in general in some communities.
Hey I'm not shooting at you if your opinion is only half true.
Just let me know your 'feelings out of the guts', o.k.?
To my opinion it doesn't take much to convince a major that proper trash handling is the best the community can get.
It boost the tourism, it makes tourist stay for some time and spend money etc. etc.
Of course I can understand JR > where are the 'sleepy little Mexican fishing villages' ???
Nobody can turn the wheel of time backwards.
Those sleepy towns are gone, the world goes foreward, never backwards.
This is what the Lawyer of the Mexican Consulate in San Antonio told me: "The Feds in Mexico City do not have any interest in the Baja at all. That's
why so many Gringo settlements do whatever thay want to do, and do have all the services, Police, Roadmaintenance crews etc. etc. on their own". They
paved the roads, they belong to them", he said. "Some day, all the Mexican guys from the Baja have left for California and most Californians are
living at the Baja. So what?" he asked.
"That's the modern migration taking place all over the world". he added.
Well, and he might be right.
So looking back > ??? that's not the thing to do.
Looking foreward, facing the future is the way to handle things, I guess.
I am 60 years old but I am not looking back at all.
The past is lost, the future can be gained.
O.K., guys let me know what you know about building the future and getting rid of the trash in a modern way in BC, will you?
Have fun so far!
Germanicus
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jrbaja
Ultra Nomad
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According to the number of new developments
I reckon there's going to be some rules/laws made regarding the disposal of trash from these places.
It would be interesting to find out how Comitan deals with it ! Maybe somebody on here knows??
I know how many of the motorhome people deal with it, look on any fence.
Recycling is a key issue and needs to be planned for in advance. It takes retraining for many households to get used to throwing plastic in one
container and glass in another, etc. But, it must be mandatory with fines imposed.
With this type of plan on paper and followed through with, it will surely expedite some aspects of what you are about to become involved with.
You may even want to look into solutions others in all parts of the world have come up with. Or invent your own!
The folks down here are willing to listen to all ideas as a rule.
Think recycling, composting, and compaction!
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Herb
Nomad
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Location: Torrance, CA
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David, I think you are describing what Bahia de Los Angeles used to be. It is definitely not what I observed when I was there about a month ago. While
there may not be a lot of full-time residents, it was the largest concentration of gringos relative to mexicans that I saw anywhere between San
Quintin and Mulege. As for almost no English being spoken, In two days there I never heard any gringo utter a single word of Spanish, even in stores
or restaurants.
With that said, however, it is still a pleasant place. The people, Mexican and Gringo alike, are mostly all friendly. There's no traffic and it is
still quiet relative to places like Rosarito. The loudest sound I heard while sleeping was the snoring of someone in my cabana.
I think it may be a south vs. north perspective. Compared to most other communities large enough to be considered a "town" in the norhtern state of
Baja California (where you spend most of your Baja travel time), Bahia de Los Angeles remains relatively unchanged.
But compared to most similar size communities in Baja California Sur (where JR spends considerable time) Bahia de Los Angeles would almost appear to
be a smaller version of Alta California's Los Angeles.
| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
JR, Bahia de L.A. is a small MEXICAN fishing town with very few full time gringos (Beach Bob, Herman, and Larry are the only ones I know). The food at
the taco stands and restaurants is great, there is a variety of camping and motel options, and it is mostly a quiet place. I don't understand your
opinion of it and it is no way like Rosarito, no way... Almost no English is spoken, so great to practice espanol! |
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sin nombre
Junior Nomad
Posts: 35
Registered: 5-8-2004
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"...But compared to most similar size communities in Baja California Sur (where JR spends considerable time) Bahia de Los Angeles would almost appear
to be a smaller version of Alta California's Los Angeles...."
Say WHAT?! I don't think so, Herb. I guess if all the residents would be there at one time, I doubt their number would reach 1,000...(I can find out
though, just for fun).
To compare it to Los Angeles and its MILLIONS of residents, is way off base. Where is even the nearest traffic signal to Bahia? You would have to
drive about 5 hours in either direction to get to one. I dont think comparing Bahia de los Angeles to Los Angeles CA. is at all justified.
[Edited on 8-3-2004 by sin nombre]
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jrbaja
Ultra Nomad
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But to compare it to
San Luis Gonzaga, San Bartolo, San Juan de la Costa, El Cajete, or El Triunfo, which are a few of places I generally try to frequent, there is a
major difference in "sleepy villageness", the amount of Spanish being spoken, and the manners of everyone in general.
And the reason I don't like it there anymore isn't because of the residents, no matter how many there are. It's the countless others that bring
their toys n booze n attitudes n stuff that steers my van to the right when passing that turnoff.
Funny how that word turned up there. Get it ?
[Edited on 8/3/2004 by jrbaja]
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sin nombre
Junior Nomad
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P.S.
If you were there about a month ago, that sounds about the time of year when the college students head down for summer classes. There are two Marine
Biology "schools" in Bahia, and they are usually pretty packed with students. Glendale Community College has a building there, as does another
Southland college. That may have been why it appeared to be so "crowded" in Bahia when you were there. The students like to walk in groups down to
the restaraunts, taco stands, etc...
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jrbaja
Ultra Nomad
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Yep,
sounds like a sleepy little Mexican village to me alrighty!
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Germanicus
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folks, may I kindly remind you that I was asking about your opinion whether or not a community might 'spend' some land for a landfill (if none is
around) ??
Can't see what my question has to do with 'students walking in a crowd to the next Taco stand' in Bahia de LosAngeles.
>> Well they have to get rid of the converted taco after some time, but the question remains: Where to dump the converted taco?
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