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BajaRat
Super Nomad
Posts: 1304
Registered: 3-2-2010
Location: SW Four Corners / Bahia Asuncion BCS
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Mood: Ready for some salt water with my Tecate
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The Baja migra operation is so lax compaired to mainland Mx. For travel south of Cd Juarez all traffic is stopped at a large immigration center where
vehicles are inspected, documents are checked and import fees are levied. If you dont have proper I.D. , vehicle documentation including proof of
insurance you are not allowed to head south. The Baja operation is set for failure with the unwary paying the $$$$$$$$$$$.
Lionel
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schwlind
Nomad
Posts: 362
Registered: 8-30-2008
Location: Daytona Beach, FL/San Antonio Del Mar (Colonet)
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I know this has been answered before, but for how long are the FMT's valid?
[Edited on 11-6-2010 by schwlind]
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tiotomasbcs
Super Nomad
Posts: 1837
Registered: 7-30-2007
Location: El Pescadero
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Amigos, get smart. Tell em you lost it accidentally or your car was robbed and IDs taken, or an Alien borrowed it "I'm very sorry & will gladly
get another"! The easiest way is to get one thru the Travel clubs, obviously! See what I learned in College!?   Tio
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BAJACAT
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2902
Registered: 11-21-2005
Location: NATIONAL CITY, CA
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
You know it is sort of a trap... I mean there are NO SIGNS at the Mexican border, or south of Ensenada, or before Guerrero Negro that tell tourists
one is 'required' to proceed south or stay longer than 3 days (or 7?).
How did that guy get past the Eagle Monument inspector?
Not everyone reads the Internet or guidebooks before heading south, afterall.
Why not set up a booth at the south end of the 'border zone' and use it to make money... sell the tourist cards there... They used to, at Maneadero a
few years ago. Just one migra guy and one bank teller on duty...
[Edited on 11-6-2010 by David K] |
David what inspector? in all my travels to BCS, I have paid for my visa
and not even once they have ask me for it in GN, they only ask me for the $ for the water that they spray in your car..Maybe beacuse I look to
MKexican jajajjaja... I think is a waist of money but I still get them just in case..
BAJA IS WHAT YOU WANTED TO BE, FUN,DANGEROUS,INCREDIBLE, REMOTE, EXOTIC..JUST GO AND HAVE FUN.....
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 65311
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bob and Susan
its not a "trap"
it's a rule
it's been in place for a couple of years
visitor visas need to be procured at the border
the fine is not a mordida it's a fine |
Yah Bob, I know that's why I said it's "sort of a trap".. In that nothing tells drivers as the motor south on Hwy. 1 or 5 that a tourist card is
required of them... People sometimes just follow an open road...
Also, what if someone was staying in Ensenada for a couple nights and decided while there to take a drive to El Rosario or south of the border zone?
Since the office in Ensenada won't issue them without a fine, why should someone pay a fine when they made a late change of plans and want to do
things legal?
It is crazy the border zone rules and having to pay at a bank.
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 65311
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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| Quote: | Originally posted by BAJACAT
| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
You know it is sort of a trap... I mean there are NO SIGNS at the Mexican border, or south of Ensenada, or before Guerrero Negro that tell tourists
one is 'required' to proceed south or stay longer than 3 days (or 7?).
How did that guy get past the Eagle Monument inspector?
Not everyone reads the Internet or guidebooks before heading south, afterall.
Why not set up a booth at the south end of the 'border zone' and use it to make money... sell the tourist cards there... They used to, at Maneadero a
few years ago. Just one migra guy and one bank teller on duty...
[Edited on 11-6-2010 by David K] |
David what inspector? in all my travels to BCS, I have paid for my visa
and not even once they have ask me for it in GN, they only ask me for the $ for the water that they spray in your car..Maybe beacuse I look to
MKexican jajajjaja... I think is a waist of money but I still get them just in case.. |
That's right... the last three times we crossed south at Guerrero Negro we were approached by a migra officer and were asked for the tourist cards...
then the spray guy was next with his hand out. These three times were July 2009, July 2007, Dec. 2001.
I guess we were just way too güero looking! 
[Edited on 11-6-2010 by David K]
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BajaBlanca
Select Nomad
Posts: 13238
Registered: 10-28-2008
Location: La Bocana, BCS
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santa rosalia migra told the kid that he was not allowed one minute south of ensenada without a tourist visa and that he should have gotten it in TJ.
So the 7 days rule is invalid ???????
BajaCat - aren't you Mexican ? So you dont need a tourist visa ????
@schwlind - the tourist visas are good for UP TO 6 MONTHS but you must request this or they give you 30 days ...
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Bajahowodd
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9274
Registered: 12-15-2008
Location: Disneyland Adjacent and anywhere in Baja
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| Quote: | Originally posted by BajaRat
The Baja migra operation is so lax compaired to mainland Mx. For travel south of Cd Juarez all traffic is stopped at a large immigration center where
vehicles are inspected, documents are checked and import fees are levied. If you dont have proper I.D. , vehicle documentation including proof of
insurance you are not allowed to head south. The Baja operation is set for failure with the unwary paying the $$$$$$$$$$$.
Lionel |
Remember, with the exception of Baja, tourists must also obtain a vehicle permit. That's probably why it's more formalized South of Juarez.
That said, it has been years since anyone has asked me or my group to present a visa. Even at GN both directions.
The doofus mentioned at the beginning very likely could have completed his trip unmolested.
However, regardless of lax enforcement, I always obtain a visa as it is complying with the law.
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Bob and Susan
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8813
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Mulege BCS on the BAY
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Mood: Full Time Residents
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| Quote: | Originally posted by BajaBlanca
@schwlind - the tourist visas are good for UP TO 6 MONTHS but you must request this or they give you 30 days ... |
no...at the border they give you 180 days
you SHOULD check though
i've gotten three there in the last year
[Edited on 11-6-2010 by Bob and Susan]
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 65311
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajahowodd
| Quote: | Originally posted by BajaRat
The Baja migra operation is so lax compaired to mainland Mx. For travel south of Cd Juarez all traffic is stopped at a large immigration center where
vehicles are inspected, documents are checked and import fees are levied. If you dont have proper I.D. , vehicle documentation including proof of
insurance you are not allowed to head south. The Baja operation is set for failure with the unwary paying the $$$$$$$$$$$.
Lionel |
Remember, with the exception of Baja, tourists must also obtain a vehicle permit. That's probably why it's more formalized South of Juarez. ...
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Part of Sonora is also in the 'tourist free zone' where car permits are not required...
[Edited on 11-6-2010 by David K]
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turtleandtoad
Senior Nomad
Posts: 730
Registered: 1-20-2005
Location: Wherever I park. See sig for current location.
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Mood: Good if fishing
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The FMT has been replaced with the FMM. This is a multiple use form. There are 11 different Tourist classifications, plus FM2 and FM3 applications,
that all now use this one form (you'll understand when you see your first one).
For the typical RV tourist, the procedure is that you are allowed 180 days in-country per year. The year starts when you first cross the border.
Before you return to the US you are supposed to turn in your FMM. This stops the clock. So don't forget to turn it in.
Next time you go to Mexico, you get another FMM. Only this time it will give you a return date calculated by subtracting the previous in-country time
from 180. This can be done up to 6 times in that 1 year period.
If you stay out of country for longer than a year, then the 180 day clock is reset and you start all over.
Hope this helps.
[Edited on 11-6-2010 by turtleandtoad]
Mike & Robin; Full-Time RV\'ers
37\' Georgetown w/3 slides & 275 Watts of Solar Power
06 Taco TRD
www.turtleandtoad.com
I am here
To paraphrase Frank Lloyd Wright; I\'m all in favor of keeping dangerous weapons out of the hands of fools. Let\'s start with keyboards. --
Mike Dean |
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Bajahowodd
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9274
Registered: 12-15-2008
Location: Disneyland Adjacent and anywhere in Baja
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And, Your Point?
| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajahowodd
| Quote: | Originally posted by BajaRat
The Baja migra operation is so lax compaired to mainland Mx. For travel south of Cd Juarez all traffic is stopped at a large immigration center where
vehicles are inspected, documents are checked and import fees are levied. If you dont have proper I.D. , vehicle documentation including proof of
insurance you are not allowed to head south. The Baja operation is set for failure with the unwary paying the $$$$$$$$$$$.
Lionel |
Remember, with the exception of Baja, tourists must also obtain a vehicle permit. That's probably why it's more formalized South of Juarez. ...
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Part of Sonora is also in the 'tourist free zone' where car parmits are not required... |
Not sure what a parmit is.
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nicolettes
Newbie
Posts: 1
Registered: 11-6-2010
Member Is Offline
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visa
when coming from Tecate; where will I pick up a visa?
how much will it cost?
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 65311
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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| Quote: | Originally posted by turtleandtoad
The FMT has been replaced with the FMM. This is a multiple use form. There are 11 different Tourist classifications, plus FM2 and FM3 applications,
that all now use this one form (you'll understand when you see your first one).
For the typical RV tourist, the procedure is that you are allowed 180 days in-country per year. The year starts when you first cross the border.
Before you return to the US you are supposed to turn in your FMM. This stops the clock. So don't forget to turn it in.
Next time you go to Mexico, you get another FMM. Only this time it will give you a return date calculated by subtracting the previous in-country time
from 180. This can be done up to 6 times in that 1 year period.
If you stay out of country for longer than a year, then the 180 day clock is reset and you start all over.
Hope this helps.
[Edited on 11-6-2010 by turtleandtoad] |
Sounds like they are going to punish tourists more if the 180 day card is not valid for 180 days total, for that 20 something dollar fee?
Guess that means the free 7 day or less card will be the way to go, unless we get is for a full 180 days worth of multiple trips as before?
20 some dollars for every man, woman and child every time they travel into Mexico beyond the border zone is too much of a financial hardship in
today's economy for most families. Mexican businesses and families will be further harmed as their government tries to fatten its pockets. I don't
know any Baja business that gets a kick back or some benefit from the federal government's taking money from tourists as they cross the border. They
will only see less and less tourists the harder it is to travel south.
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 65311
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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What is your point?
| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajahowodd
| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajahowodd
| Quote: | Originally posted by BajaRat
The Baja migra operation is so lax compaired to mainland Mx. For travel south of Cd Juarez all traffic is stopped at a large immigration center where
vehicles are inspected, documents are checked and import fees are levied. If you dont have proper I.D. , vehicle documentation including proof of
insurance you are not allowed to head south. The Baja operation is set for failure with the unwary paying the $$$$$$$$$$$.
Lionel |
Remember, with the exception of Baja, tourists must also obtain a vehicle permit. That's probably why it's more formalized South of Juarez. ...
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Part of Sonora is also in the 'tourist free zone' where car permits are not required... |
Not sure what a parmit is. |
Me either... but I fixed the typo, just for you!
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sancho
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2524
Registered: 10-6-2004
Location: OC So Cal
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With all due respect to Turtle& Toad, all of us
can relate our own experiences or opinion
on HOW we believe the Mex Immigration
system to operate. The statement you get
180 days in Mex per yr. and some idea of
the clock stopping as you turn in your fmm
at the border, is in my belief totally incorrect.
Travellers on the mainland report no problem
getting another fmm.
You can get another fmm after your current
one expires, just like with the previous fmt's were.
To my knowledge no one has been denied
another fmm, that is an urban legend that
you get 180 days total per yr. I don't believe the fmm
it is intended as a mulitiple entry form,
neither was the fmt , but logic tells you that you can
keep the fmm for mulitiple entries, until
it expires
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Bajahowodd
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9274
Registered: 12-15-2008
Location: Disneyland Adjacent and anywhere in Baja
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| Quote: | Originally posted by sancho
With all due respect to Turtle& Toad, all of us
can relate our own experiences or opinion
on HOW we believe the Mex Immigration
system to operate. The statement you get
180 days in Mex per yr. and some idea of
the clock stopping as you turn in your fmm
at the border, is in my belief totally incorrect.
Travellers on the mainland report no problem
getting another fmm.
You can get another fmm after your current
one expires, just like with the previous fmt's were.
To my knowledge no one has been denied
another fmm, that is an urban legend that
you get 180 days total per yr. I don't believe the fmm
it is intended as a mulitiple entry form,
neither was the fmt , but logic tells you that you can
keep the fmm for mulitiple entries, until
it expires |
They would have to maintain a fairly sophisticated data base to make that work. Last month at San Ysidro the official neither scanned our passports
nor appeared to enter any data, at least while we were there. Not to mention that it is wholly inconvenient to surrender the visa upon return. Think
about the logistics at SY, assuming no one would be foolish enough to cross North, just to re-enter to see the Imm guy. One would have to find parking
south of the river and walk back. Ridiculous. Would seem to me that even if they had a mail-in system, I don't know if I'd trust it.
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turtleandtoad
Senior Nomad
Posts: 730
Registered: 1-20-2005
Location: Wherever I park. See sig for current location.
Member Is Offline
Mood: Good if fishing
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I maintain a 'sticky' on the RV.net RVing in Mexico and South America that covers all the border stuff that affects the average tourist. It's called
The New and Improved Border FAQ's. And I don't rely on rumor or "it happened to a friend of a friend' war stories. I research everything to the best
of my ability!
The below was submitted by a friend (mexbungalows) that lives in Mexico and speaks and writes fluent Spanish. He went directly to the source. I also
collaborated all this by translating the Spanish source documents.
Now, as I said in my first post, what actually happens to one individual at the border is dependent more on the mood of the border official than on
the actual rules. But that doesn't make it legal or correct.
FMM
On January 29, 2010, Mexico’s National Migration Institute (NMI) published a Manual of Criteria and Migration Procedures (“the Manual”). The Manual
simplifies the process for obtaining non-immigrant visas, extends the authorized period of admission pursuant to these visas from 30 days to 180 days,
and changes Mexican visa terminology.
THE CHANGES ARE SCHEDULED TO TAKE EFFECT MAY 1, 2010.
The major change for the average tourist is the replacement of the FM-T (Forma Migratoria Tourista).
New Short-Term Visa Introduced: Forma Migratoria Multiple (FMM)
The Manual combines the current FM-T (Tourist), FM-TTV (business, investor, or transfer of personnel), FM-3 (Business), and FM-3 (Technical) visas
into one category, the Forma Migratoria Multiple (FMM). The FMM will allow for a maximum period of stay of 180 days in Mexico. The visa holder’s
immigration status under the FMM will be further classified as follows: (a) Tourist; (b) Business; (c) Visitor with Lucrative Activities; or (d)
Visitor with Non-Lucrative Activities. The visa holder may perform productive work under the FMM(c) (Visitor with Lucrative Activities) and FMM(d)
(Visitor with Non-Lucrative Activities) for a maximum period of 180 days. The distinction between the FMM(c), Visitor with Non-Lucrative Activities,
and FMM(d), Visitor with Lucrative Activities, turns on the source of the visa holder’s salary. If the foreign national receives a salary or other
economic compensation from within Mexico, he or she will fall within FMM(c), Visitor with Lucrative Activities. If the foreign national receives
compensation from their home country, i.e., outside of Mexico, he or she will be classified as an FMM(d), Visitor with Non-Lucrative Activities.
Now, most of us don’t have to worry about any of this, as the only difference is that we use a different form (the FMM) and just fill out the
‘tourist’ section.
However, the FMM is tied to your passport and is REQUIRED to be returned on exit. This effectively eliminates the multiple crossings with the same
paperwork. And apparently the old trick of crossing back into the US and then returning to Mexico to get a new FM-T good for another 180 days will no
longer be possible. The FMM will be tracked on a computer base and you are only allowed a total of 180 days in a 12 month period. Supposedly it will
be set up to allow up to a maximum of six separate 30 day FMM’s to be issued in that 12 month period.
So, if you are planning on making multiple trips into Mexico in a given 12 month period, you better do a little advance planning and ask for just the
time you need for each trip and don’t just automatically ask for 180 days the first time across. Remember, your year starts the first time you cross
with the new FMM.
There is a lot more changes that will affect the FM3 and FM2 holders but I’m not going to include them here. I will add them to my sticky later. For
those of you that would like to pursue this topic deeper, check out the below links or just Google “Mexico FMM visa”.
http://www.sanfelipelife.com/post/Tourist,-FM-3-and-FM-2-vis...
http://www.mexperience.co.uk/blogs/mexicoinsight/?p=256
For those that would like to read the Manual in its original Spanish;
Diario Oficial de la Federación
New Info.
Lic. Ismael Abarca INM was kind enough to show me the new regs in the manual. 180-days in any 360 (not 365) period. The FMM -must- be turned in when
exiting Mexico. A new one will be issued upon re-entry for the days remaining as shown on the computer screen. From 30 April to 30 October the FMM's
existing in Mexico will be honored. Then after that the clamps come down and the FMM will be enforced much like the 180-day car permit.
If the FMM is not surrendered upon departing and the individual attempts to re-enter they will not be issued an FMM nor can they get a car permit. A
fine will have to be paid. Ismael believes the fine will be one thousand pesos payable at a Banjercito window only. If you depart and return with an
unexpired FMM it will be caught at the INM SAT/SHCP checkpoint. The official will supposedly check the date of issuance of the FMM and if it is
different than the current day then there is going to be a problem.
There seems to be nothing more than inconvenience at turning in an FMM at this point. What may be of concern is that the rules may not be strictly
enforced at first and then when you are holding an FMM outside Mexico the rules start to be enforced. Remember the debacle when car bonding first came
about in 1991? Bear in mind throughout the FMM changeover that the permits are going to be computerized. The INM computers are going to be every bit
as unforgiving as the SAT/SHCP car permit computers.
From Mexbungalows
Mike & Robin; Full-Time RV\'ers
37\' Georgetown w/3 slides & 275 Watts of Solar Power
06 Taco TRD
www.turtleandtoad.com
I am here
To paraphrase Frank Lloyd Wright; I\'m all in favor of keeping dangerous weapons out of the hands of fools. Let\'s start with keyboards. --
Mike Dean |
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CaboRon
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3401
Registered: 3-24-2007
Location: The Valley of the Moon
Member Is Offline
Mood: Peacefull
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| Quote: | Originally posted by shari
Last week some german tourists showed up here and asked about a tourist visa. I told them they should have got their tourist visa at the border as YES
they need them...particulary if they want their vehicle insurance to be valid.
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Very True
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ecomujeres
Nomad
Posts: 299
Registered: 9-10-2006
Location: Mulege, BCS & Oakland, CA
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
Also, what if someone was staying in Ensenada for a couple nights and decided while there to take a drive to El Rosario or south of the border zone?
Since the office in Ensenada won't issue them without a fine, why should someone pay a fine when they made a late change of plans and want to do
things legal?
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Not quite sure why I keep hearing that Ensenada won't give tourist visas. We picked ours up there in mid-October at their tourist visa-only booth at
the office in the dock area--no questions asked about why we didn't get them at the border, no mention of fines. Very pleasant interchange.
We were also told that the new visa was good for 180 days, and that if we wanted more time, we'd have to leave the country and then return and ask for
new ones, as the new visas could no longer be extended using the same paperwork.
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