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Cypress
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7641
Registered: 3-12-2006
Location: on the bayou
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Mood: undecided
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Have tracked bighorns with radio collars. They can be very hard to spot, even if you know where they are, blend in with the rocks and background.
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shari
Select Nomad
Posts: 13048
Registered: 3-10-2006
Location: bahia asuncion, baja sur
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Mood: there is no reality except the one contained within us "Herman Hesse"
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borrego Cimarron is a big ticket item in baja...mucho dinero for a tag and trip. It was explained to me by a guide from the San Borja area how some of
the elder rancher men had the job of following the heards and they had made water holes for them, the idea being to keep track of where the big males
were so when the hunters came they would know where to take them. their locations are documented and photographed and they know in advance which
animal will be "offered" to the hunter.
Although I am NOT an advocate for trophy hunting, the way they explained it to me made sense in an economic way and they only sell very very few tags
a year. The large sum of money it brings in to their poor ejidos goes a long way to helping the families and ranchers survive.
Unlike bear hunting where hunters want the largest speciman which takes out the strongest bears from the gene pool...cimarrons that are targeted are
the great grandfathers who have the biggest horns...and supposedly these old machos are no longer reproducing. The old ranchers find and track the
animals to be targeted...the hunters probably dont realize it that they are led to where they are. This may not be the method in other areas but that
is the story I was told by a guide.
Interesting how these Biosphere Reserves "protects" the animals so they can sell the tags to kill them for cold cash. The same deal goes for the
Pronghorn Antelope in our Reserve here. I was so impressed with the millions of dollars donated by the Ford Foundation to try to save the Berrendos
from extinction...until I found out that the plan was to breed em, set em free with radio tags, and then sell permits to trophy hunters...kinda took
the delilght out of the program for me....and the hunters certainly will not want the old farts in this species. But geez...berrendo was a popular
food source before and is supposed to be THE best meat ever...probably because they eat only flowers!!! If one allows wealthy hunters to bag
them...what about allowing the ranchers to serve em up to visitors??? it's all economic developement isnt it??...turtles...pronghorn??? all
endangered.
I agree with allowing indigenous people to exercise their rights to traditional food sources...but trophy hunting just rubs me the wrong way
personally....although if the taking of a few older animals gets a new school for the kids...well...hmmm...I guess I can find it in my heart to
understand their predicament.
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b1
Junior Nomad
Posts: 51
Registered: 12-27-2007
Location: On the Reality side of the Paradise/Reality border
Member Is Offline
Mood: Kicked it in neutral; hang'n cool.
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tripledigitken, thanks for the nice compliment on the hood horns. I will inform the Basque sheepman here at home (one of my neighbors) who put it on
my rig before I drove down to Baja. He got the biggest kick out of putting them on there.
Did you notice the little mule deer buck in the road, the fifth picture down? He was not interested in leaving the pavement that morning.
Shari, you are correct on the "big ticket" issue for the sheep. There were two hunting parties at the airport in Loreto the morning I was there in
February 2008 (taking my wife there to fly home) and I talked to both. The price of the tag for the biosphere tag was $50,000. usd. The other party
had hunted on a private ranch west of Juncalito and the price of that tag was $35,000 usd. Those are just the prices of the tags/permits.
When the winds turn white in Idaho, it\'s my time to visit the banana trees of Baja.
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elfbrewery
Nomad
Posts: 340
Registered: 12-25-2006
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b1, thanks for all that interesting info and pix. I will ask in Mulege tomorrow if someone does just a tour or camping trip to view the animals and
the volcanos, etc. I'm not for trophy hunting either, but I can see someone thinking that if the gene pool survives and expands, it's better than
extinction. It takes money...
When will the spotted bay bass become an endangered species (can't find many in Bahia Concepcion anymore)?
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64852
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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b1, thanks for the look down the Tres Virgenes Geothermal road... Twice now we drove by saying we wondered what was it like in there... Sign says
'hotel' and restaurant symbol... but you were chased out?
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64852
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Mulegena
Anybody have Steinbeck's "Log from the Sea of Cortez" on their Kindle?
Can you quick-read it for McFez, plz?
There's also a copy in the Rock Room at Shari's!! |
I have the actual book, not on a 'Kindel'...
On pages 159-166 the borrego hunt is discussed... and they are going into the mountains west of Puerto Escondido... which is south of Loreto.
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SFLowTide
Junior Nomad
Posts: 30
Registered: 5-6-2010
Location: Elk Grove, CA/Km 31
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Mood: Waiting On The Sun
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| Quote: | Originally posted by mcfez
The Log from the Sea of Cortez by John Steinbeck ...in an chapter..writes about these mountain sheep that they went inland to hunt for. One of the
local ranchers took them on this hunt. I assumed the area was San Felipe. Just thought I throw that in this conversation. Any sheep in San Felipe area
still? |
I have personally seen a HUGE ram in the middle of the road between Coco's and HWY 1 a few years ago. We were traveling northbound around the blind
mountain curves and POW! There he was. What a giant. His shoulder stood above the hood of our Suburban. By the time I grabbed the camera from the
dash and jumped out, he was down the ravine and halfway up the other mountain. I swear it only took him only three jumps. I’m just lucky that my dad
and a friend were with me, or nobody would have believed me…
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Cypress
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7641
Registered: 3-12-2006
Location: on the bayou
Member Is Offline
Mood: undecided
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elfbrewery, They're not the only species that's hard to find in the Bahia Conception/Mulge area.
b1, The wind has turned white in Idaho.
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mcfez
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8678
Registered: 12-2-2009
Location: aka BN yankeeirishman
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
| Quote: | Originally posted by Mulegena
Anybody have Steinbeck's "Log from the Sea of Cortez" on their Kindle?
Can you quick-read it for McFez, plz?
There's also a copy in the Rock Room at Shari's!! |
I have the actual book, not on a 'Kindel'...
On pages 159-166 the borrego hunt is discussed... and they are going into the mountains west of Puerto Escondido... which is south of Loreto.
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"up on a trail" where they are crawling on their hands and knees to get to a certain plateau...... Is that it DavidK ? Gods...my memory is waste!
Old people are like the old cars, made of some tough stuff. May show a little rust, but good as gold on the inside.
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64852
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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Borregos closer to San Felipe...
100 miles south of San Felipe and 12 miles west of Gonzaga Bay, near Mision Santa Maria... May, 2007:
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64852
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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| Quote: | Originally posted by mcfez
| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
| Quote: | Originally posted by Mulegena
Anybody have Steinbeck's "Log from the Sea of Cortez" on their Kindle?
Can you quick-read it for McFez, plz?
There's also a copy in the Rock Room at Shari's!! |
I have the actual book, not on a 'Kindel'...
On pages 159-166 the borrego hunt is discussed... and they are going into the mountains west of Puerto Escondido... which is south of Loreto.
|
"up on a trail" where they are crawling on their hands and knees to get to a certain plateau...... Is that it DavidK ? Gods...my memory is waste!
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On pages 161-162:
"We came at last to a trail of broken stone and rubble so steep that the mules could not carry us any more. We dismounted and crawled on all fours,
and we don't know how the mules got up. After a short climb we emerged on a level place in a deep cleft in the granite mountains. In this cleft a tiny
stream of water fell hundreds of feet from pool to pool. There were palm trees and wild grapevines and large ferns, and the water was cool and
sweet..."
 
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 18380
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
Member Is Offline
Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by shari
...but trophy hunting just rubs me the wrong way personally....although if the taking of a few older animals gets a new school for the
kids...well...hmmm...I guess I can find it in my heart to understand their predicament. |
i guess i like trophy hunting more when i think of it as a method to tax the rich 
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64852
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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Yah, those rich people are so bad... hiring us at their businesses and homes to allow us to provide for our families... shame on them!
(Poor people have never hired me to work for them, how about you? The more rich people there are the more money for the rest of us)
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 18380
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
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Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
Yah, those rich people are so bad... hiring us at their businesses and homes to allow us to provide for our families... shame on them!
(Poor people have never hired me to work for them, how about you? The more rich people there are the more money for the rest of us)
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twas meant to be a funny comment, dk. don't get your panties in a bunch.
but I do think that if people want to participate in barbaric trophy hunts, I hope they pay a lot and the money goes to good causes to
counter-balannce the evil of the killing for "sport"
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64852
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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| Quote: | Originally posted by mtgoat666
| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
Yah, those rich people are so bad... hiring us at their businesses and homes to allow us to provide for our families... shame on them!
(Poor people have never hired me to work for them, how about you? The more rich people there are the more money for the rest of us)
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twas meant to be a funny comment, dk. don't get your panties in a bunch.
but I do think that if people want to participate in barbaric trophy hunts, I hope they pay a lot and the money goes to good causes to
counter-balannce the evil of the killing for "sport" |
I agree... killing should be limited to self defense and eating.
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mcfez
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8678
Registered: 12-2-2009
Location: aka BN yankeeirishman
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
| Quote: | Originally posted by mcfez
| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
| Quote: | Originally posted by Mulegena
Anybody have Steinbeck's "Log from the Sea of Cortez" on their Kindle?
Can you quick-read it for McFez, plz?
There's also a copy in the Rock Room at Shari's!! |
I have the actual book, not on a 'Kindel'...
On pages 159-166 the borrego hunt is discussed... and they are going into the mountains west of Puerto Escondido... which is south of Loreto.
|
"up on a trail" where they are crawling on their hands and knees to get to a certain plateau...... Is that it DavidK ? Gods...my memory is waste!
|
On pages 161-162:
"We came at last to a trail of broken stone and rubble so steep that the mules could not carry us any more. We dismounted and crawled on all fours,
and we don't know how the mules got up. After a short climb we emerged on a level place in a deep cleft in the granite mountains. In this cleft a tiny
stream of water fell hundreds of feet from pool to pool. There were palm trees and wild grapevines and large ferns, and the water was cool and
sweet..."
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That's it!!! What a incredible story of crawling around on some ol dusty hot trail! What imagination that brings to one's mind.
DavidK.....you think you could i.d. that trail? I'd be the first one getting up there.
Oh....thanks David for the research. Any secret beach hot spots? 
Old people are like the old cars, made of some tough stuff. May show a little rust, but good as gold on the inside.
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BajaBlanca
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Posts: 13196
Registered: 10-28-2008
Location: La Bocana, BCS
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hunting bighorn tres virgines
the sheep hunting price tag is up to $55,000 is what I was told today. They average 7 American hunters a year
pics of hunting @ 3 virgenes
CONTACT ALFREDO AVINA VARAJAS cell 615 106-8998
[Edited on 12-1-2010 by BajaBlanca]
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mcfez
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8678
Registered: 12-2-2009
Location: aka BN yankeeirishman
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| Quote: | Originally posted by BajaBlanca
the sheep hunting price tag is up to $55,000 is what I was told today. They average 7 American hunters a year
pics of hunting @ 3 virgenes
[Edited on 12-1-2010 by BajaBlanca] |
For that price.....my Mother in Law is an old goat....anyone....anyone....$20,000?
Old people are like the old cars, made of some tough stuff. May show a little rust, but good as gold on the inside.
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b1
Junior Nomad
Posts: 51
Registered: 12-27-2007
Location: On the Reality side of the Paradise/Reality border
Member Is Offline
Mood: Kicked it in neutral; hang'n cool.
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Hi David K, sorry for the delay in answering your question about being "chased out" of the Tres Virgenes Geothermal Road. I did not take the side
road up to the "Restaurant and Hotel". I went down the main road which did have a metal swing barrier but it was open and there were folks working on
the road so I never thought much of it (hoping to see if the road would take me to the sea). Went on down well past the electrical plant and was
merrily on my way still on the paved road when one of the plant workers in a white service pickup caught up to me and let me know I could not be down
there. I was not supposed to go beyond/through the metal swing gate barrier (like are on the forrest service roads here in the northwest). The
worker was polite but firm.
And yes Cypress, how I know the winds of Idaho have now turned white. However, reality dictates that I can't visit my friends -the banana trees of
Baja- until February. thanks, b1
When the winds turn white in Idaho, it\'s my time to visit the banana trees of Baja.
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Mulegena
Super Nomad
Posts: 2412
Registered: 11-7-2006
Member Is Offline
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Good Read, Nomads
This has turned into a really interesting Thread.
No idea about the hunting situation in Baja. I thought a Biosphere Reserve was just that, a reservation of safety for the flora and fauna... but $ is
$ and there seems to be a supply of it, so there ya' go.
I really enjoyed the photos of the sheep; some of David's have a petroglyph, almost sepia-tone quality about them. Beautiful.
"Raise your words, not your voice. It's rain that grows flowers, not thunder." ~Rumi
"It's the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~ Aristotle
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