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Taco de Baja
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Found some literature about crocs and gators in the fossil record, and some other historical sitings at least in Sonora.....
My guess is they are quite rare.
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North America - Mexico
[For this issue of the newsletter we have received two interesting notes concerning the northernmost
distribution of American crocodiles along the Pacific Coast of Mexico. Editors.]
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CROCODILIAN REMAINS FROM THE LATE PLEISTOCENE OF NORTHEASTERN SONORA, MEXICO. The fossil record of crocodilians in Mexico during the
Pleistocene is exceedingly rare. Of interest to us is a fossil-rich deposit from along the Río de Moctezuma, in mountainous, northeastern Sonora (29º
45.N lat., 109º 40.W long., 605 m elev.). Today the locality is dominated by a Sinaloan thornscrub community. The Río de Moctezuma begins just north
of the town of Nacozari and flows south to join the Río de Bavispe and the Río Yaqui, which then empties into the Gulf of California immediately south
of Guaymas, Sonora (Figure 1). The fossil lake deposit is situated adjacent to the village of San Clamente de Térapa, about 10 km south of Moctezuma.
To date, our work has concentrated on surface exposed fossils, and has already produced 39 vertebrate taxa. The precise age has not been
established, but based on the recovery of the bison, it is likely to be within the past 500,000 years. During this time a lava-dammed Río de
Moctezuma produced a short-lived lake (Lago Térapa, Lake Terapa). Fossils are recovered from the three sedimentary units of the lake deposit. The
structure of the sediments, their distribution within the basin, and the nature of the fauna indicate the occurrence of a shallow paludal (marsh or
swamp) environment, which we believe to be similar in structure to the llanos and pantanal (flooded grasslands and savannas) of South America. Areas
within the Lago Térapa basin during this phase contain the tropical rodent, Hydrochaeris (capybara), along with grassland species such as
Bison (bison), Equus (horse), Glyptotherium (glyptodon), and Holmesina (extinct giant armadillo, pampathere).
A sedimentary facies contains well-sorted, coarse- to fine-grained sands and is consistent with a slow-flowing river channel within the paludal
environment. This facies contains crocodilian teeth, snails, clams, and abundant fish and turtles. Other areas within the basin
during this phase appear to lack what we interpret to be open water and contain remains of turtles, large tortoise, horse, deer, extinct pronghorn,
xenarthrans (ground sloths and armadillos), and tropical birds (possibly representing near-shore and less submerged grasslands).
Six isolate teeth recovered from riverine facies sands are distinctive to those found in crocodilians, and their sizes are indicative
of at least two different life stages. The teeth are conical and pointed to blunt-pointed; two of the teeth are slightly recurved (Figure 2). All the
teeth have distinct vertical striations on the surfaces of the crown (a characteristic found on both crocodylids and alligatorids).
Most of the teeth are weakly to strongly carinate (keeled) with crests oriented postero-mesially.
No crocodilians live today in interior northern Mexico or in the greater Gulf of California along the mainland or Baja California.
Crocodylus acutus (American crocodile, cocodrilo del río) is the most widely distributed of the North American crocodiles. Its present
distribution includes Altata (near Culiacán) and Mazatlán within the entrance to the Gulf of California (Ernst et al. 1999). Seri (Comcáac) Indians
report the occasional sightings of a crocodile ("gila monster from the sea"; assumed to be C. acutus) as far north as Punta Sargento
(the northernmost mangrove lagoon on the Sonoran coast), including two sightings recorded during the 1900s, with one large adult washed up on the
southeast shores of Tiburón Island (Nabhan, in press; Figure 1). Baegert (1952) indicated seeing "alligators" of considerable size
at the confluence of the Colorado River and the Gulf in A.D. 1751.
These northern reports likely represent vagrant, range-exploring individuals and are recorded only along coastal waters and near-shore islands. We are
not aware of any oral accounts or published literature indicating subfossil or historic records of any crocodilian being observed
up-river from the Gulf of California in Sonora. Recent damming of major rivers (e.g., Río Mayo and Río Yaqui) for water storage and hydroelectric uses
have all but completely decimated the coastal mangrove lagoons, removing these northern disjunct communities and thereby restricting the
crocodile to the tropical south.
This tropical and mangrove lagoon species is distinctive to coastal brackish and freshwater habitats, though it is known to travel up major river
systems (which is what we suggest to explain the arrival of a crocodilian at Lago Térapa; 350 km inland during the Ice Age). The
alligatorid, Caiman crocodilus (common caiman) is a small, highly adaptable crocodilian that lives among other areas,
along the Pacific Ocean coast of southernmost Mexico and Central America the only other crocodilian today on the Pacific Ocean side of
Mexico.
Reports of crocodilian fossils from the Ice Age of Mexico are rare in the literature. Two fragmented jaws, isolate teeth, a
vertebra, and dermal scutes (osteoderms) recovered from the late Pliocene deposits of Las Tunas (> 2.0 million years ago) on southernmost Baja
California were attributed to cf. Crocodylus moreletii (Morelet.s crocodile; Miller, 1980). No verified accounts exist for natural C.
moreletii population along coastal, western Mexico. These Pliocene-Age fossils warrant a new examination based on the identification and present
distribution of that species. We suggest that the crocodilian at Lago Térapa was likely.
We thank the personnel of the Cleveland Metroparks Zoo (Ohio) for their donation of the skeleton of Dreadnought, a 4.3 m long, +44 year old male
Crocodylus acutus. Such material for our comparative skeleton collection is critical to the teaching and researching of fossil crocodilians.
Jim I. Mead, Dept. of Geology & Quaternary Sciences Program, Northern Arizona University, Flagstaff, Arizona 86011- 4099, USA
<James.Mead@nau.edu> & Arturo Baez, Dept. of Geosciences & College of Agriculture & Life Sciences, University of Arizona, 4101 N.
Campbell Ave., Tucson, AZ 85719, USA.
=======================
CROCODYLUS ACUTUS IN SONORA, MEXICO. The American crocodile (Crocodylus acutus) is a widely distributed species, ranging
from northern South America to the tip of the Florida peninsula and the Pacific coast of Mexico. In the latter, the mouth of the El Fuerte River (25º
49. N, 109º 24. W), in the state of Sinaloa, is considered its northernmost stronghold. However, there are historical accounts of American
crocodile populations farther north in Sonora state, such as the report by Jesuit Father Juan Nentuig, who in 1764 wrote about
crocodiles in the mouth of the Yaqui River (27º 21. N, 110º 30. W). Today, that area is much changed: as one of Mexico.s biggest and
most productive agricultural valleys, the river’s freshwater flow has been reduced to such an extent that crocodiles are no longer found
there. The same could be said of the mouth of the Mayo River, some 100 km to the southeast and where long-time residents still remember the
caimanes.
Occasional individuals may have wandered away from those areas, as suggested by the capture of a crocodile on 19 January 1973 in the
El Ciego estuary, near Las Guásimas, approximately 30 km east of Guaymas, Sonora (27º 52. N, 110º 33. W). This specimen was netted unintentionally by
two fishermen who were night-fishing for sea bass. From the photo published in El Diario newspaper the following day, the crocodile
was estimated to measure approximately 2.5 m. Because that area does not have freshwater discharges, is located at the southern fringe of the
Sonoran Desert, and receives irregular and scarce rainfall, it is unlikely that a breeding population of American crocodiles was ever
established there. The surprise and interest that the event caused among local people is evidence that the species was not common then in the area. It
may constitute the northernmost recorded evidence of the species along the Pacific coast. Today, it appears that the species has been extirpated from
Sonora. Carlos J. Navarro, Marine Biologist & Wildlife Photographer, Mexico<navarrosc@hotmail.com>.
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CROCODILE SPECIALIST GROUP NEWSLETTER VOLUME 22 No. 1 - JANUARY /March 2003
Truth generally lies in the coordination of antagonistic opinions
-Herbert Spencer
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Bob H
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Cypress
They do taste kind of like chicken, different texture. Can be found in some restaurants down in Louisiana. Make various dishes out of 'em.
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In Louisiana, they also make boudin out of alligator meat! YUMMY!
http://www.cajungrocer.com/comeauxs-alligator-boudin-p-1473....
[Edited on 12-4-2010 by Bob H]
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DENNIS
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For those of us who have no idea what Boudin is:
http://www.examiner.com/creole-cajun-food-in-houston/boudin-...
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Bob H
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For those who have never had boudin, it is fantastic! I order it online and will pay any price to have that stuff in my freezer. I like the pork
boudin, but all of it is good.
Thaw it out, get cookie sheet, tin foil, spray some Pam, lay it out and cook at 275-deg for 45 mins, turning once.
Prounced Boo-Danah with a slight southern drawl... lol
Who dat say gonna beat dem Saints! hahaha
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Mexitron
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David--it was my impression that an "hour" was the distance one could walk in an hour---in Baja at that time it was more important to know how long it
would take, over such rough terrain, than to know how far it was as the crow flies...as it were.
Dennis---San Blas still had gators/crocs when we went surfing there in 1990...a couple folks said to be careful about paddling out through the swamp
to get out to the point at Mantachen Bay(!) They had/have a jungle boat ride through the back swamps to look at crocs too...
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David K
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| Quote: | Originally posted by BajaBruno
David K., I have to argue with the idea that an hour is a degree, even though it makes perfect sense and both have sixty minutes. If that were true,
then his estimate of the width of the SOC from Cabo (150 hours, or 9,000 nautical miles) is so greatly exaggerated that it seems implausible that he
could have believed it true.
Similarly, he writes that the Baja peninsula is 400 hours long, which would translate to 24,000 n. miles if an hour were a degree. He must have known
that could not possibly be correct.
Am I missing something here?
As for the lizards, the distribution of Crocodylus acutus is reported to extend fairly far up of the Sea of Cortez. Perhaps in earlier times it
extended even further north. See: http://www.flmnh.ufl.edu/cnhc/cst_cacu_dh_map.htm |
Yah.. it is too bad that time and distance measurements sometimes use the same names! In space, it is okay as in Light Year!
Most of what you cite above is perhaps 'travel time' in hours and not degrees (hours) on the globe of the earth. Perhaps it was only common in
Baegert's time to call a degree of longitude an hour? It is confusing...
If I find a good answer, I will post it...
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David K
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Mexitron
David--it was my impression that an "hour" was the distance one could walk in an hour---in Baja at that time it was more important to know how long it
would take, over such rough terrain, than to know how far it was as the crow flies...as it were.
Dennis---San Blas still had gators/crocs when we went surfing there in 1990...a couple folks said to be careful about paddling out through the swamp
to get out to the point at Mantachen Bay(!) They had/have a jungle boat ride through the back swamps to look at crocs too... |
Yah... I think so... but the Colorado River being a 'quarter hour' wide sound like a distance to me... and 15 minutes (15 nautical miles) is right on
for the opening of the Colorado at the head of the gulf.
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capt. mike
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are they crocs or alligators?
the river trip up out of San Blas used to feature gators or crocs - i thot only crocs were in SA or CA?
and gators are strictly USA stuff? in the south?
formerly Ordained in Rev. Ewing\'s Church by Mail - busted on tax fraud.......
Now joined L. Ron Hoover\'s church of Appliantology
\"Remember there is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over....\"
www.facebook.com/michael.l.goering |
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Barry A.
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| Quote: | Originally posted by capt. mike
are they crocs or alligators?
the river trip up out of San Blas used to feature gators or crocs - i thot only crocs were in SA or CA?
and gators are strictly USA stuff? in the south? |
See David K's "map" on the previous page of this thread--------points out where crocs and aligator habitat is. Crocs on the west coast of mainland
Mexico, it would appear, as well as elsewhere.
(This map, however, seems to be in conflict with some of the narritives I have read here?!?!?!?!?)
Barry
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tehag
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croc
A friend who has played golf in Mazatlán reports that there is a crocodile in a water hazard on a course there. Bet he's got a lotta balls.
Certainty is the child of ignorance, knowledge is the mother of doubt. Question everything!
http://bcsbirds.com |
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Bajafun777
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While hunting in Los Mochis a number of years back a friend shot a duck and then started wading into the water to get it. The "Mexican Hunting
Guide,"which you were required to have with you while hunting, started yelling in Spanish for this friend to get out of the water. Now, the friend
started saying what is he saying, to which the guide said,"I think the crocodile swim faster than you!" Upon hearing the guide saying this the friend
saw two eyes barely above the water rapidly approaching him. Then we all saw a miracle, the friend turned into Jesus and Ran not Walked on water. We
all started laughing so hard when he made it safely to shore and then we watched as the crocodile took the duck whole in one bite disappearing into
the water. True story and the guide told us a number of children get killed each year while swimming or fishing in the large dirt canals down there.
Needless to say we stopped duck hunting and went back to hunting doves & quail.
With that said, I should say I have never seen or heard about any crocodiles in Baja. Maybe if they were in Baja they made too good of a taco and that
is why they are not there anymore,hmmmmmm? LOL Take Care & Travel Safe " No Hurry, No Worry, Just FUN"
bajafun777
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David K
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It would be cool to find some other evidence that crocs swam across the gulf to Baja or just around the coast past the Colorado delta.
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Barry A.
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
It would be cool to find some other evidence that crocs swam across the gulf to Baja or just around the coast past the Colorado delta.
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Jeeeezo, David---------we canoed and camped all over that delta, watched the title bore, coyotes everywhere, birds everywhere, but even the thought of
a croc there makes the hair on the back of my neck rise up!! Who knew???????? When I saw your posted map of croc habitat I realized it was MUCH TOO
CLOSE to the Delta for comfort. 
But, we never saw any because they ain't there, thank Gawd.
Barry
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Hook
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Seems to me Pompano talked about seeing crocs/caimans/gators in the Rio Mulege when he first got there. That was a LONG time ago, well before Consag
and Kino. I believe he arrived on Cortes' second voyage.
How 'bout it, Roger? Break out that Kodacolor album of yours!
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Martyman
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I did the boat jungle tour in San Blas a few years ago. Crocodiles not alligators. They have a swimming area at the end of the boat ride, i snuck up
on my 12 years old and gave his leg a good tug underwater. He still remembers. I'm a bad papa!
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DENNIS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Martyman
I did the boat jungle tour in San Blas a few years ago. Crocodiles not alligators. They have a swimming area at the end of the boat ride, i snuck up
on my 12 years old and gave his leg a good tug underwater. He still remembers. I'm a bad papa! |
Nothing like giving your kid PTSD in a swimming hole.
That's probably the same jungle tour I was on a million years ago. The water at the end was about 15 feet deep and the bottom was littered with beer
cans. At that time, nobody suggested swimming there.
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Trueheart
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There are "cocodrilos" at Zihuatenejo .... south end of the beach (Playa de Ropa). A stream from the mountains reaches the beach where a small lagoon
is formed just before reaching the ocean, but right at the ocean's edge ... right at the beach. I've seen 'em ... several of 'em ... various sizes!
They tend to stay in the lagoon waters though ... fresh water. But if they get hungry enough, do they wander a bit? Hmmm?
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Cypress
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Will be down in gator country in few days. Looking forward to some boudin, fishing and warm weather.
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Mexitron
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Trueheart
There are "cocodrilos" at Zihuatenejo .... south end of the beach (Playa de Ropa). A stream from the mountains reaches the beach where a small lagoon
is formed just before reaching the ocean, but right at the ocean's edge ... right at the beach. I've seen 'em ... several of 'em ... various sizes!
They tend to stay in the lagoon waters though ... fresh water. But if they get hungry enough, do they wander a bit? Hmmm? |
I've heard the gators down in Australia will go into the open ocean at times...as if great whites aren't enough.
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Barry A.
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Mexitron
| Quote: | Originally posted by Trueheart
There are "cocodrilos" at Zihuatenejo .... south end of the beach (Playa de Ropa). A stream from the mountains reaches the beach where a small lagoon
is formed just before reaching the ocean, but right at the ocean's edge ... right at the beach. I've seen 'em ... several of 'em ... various sizes!
They tend to stay in the lagoon waters though ... fresh water. But if they get hungry enough, do they wander a bit? Hmmm? |
I've heard the gators down in Australia will go into the open ocean at times...as if great whites aren't enough. |
Yep, the Aussies call them "saltys", and they grow to be huge, and are ferocious!!! But if you feed them, and talk kindly to them, they are docile
and sweet. 
Barry
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