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Russ
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Posts: 6742
Registered: 7-4-2004
Location: Punta Chivato
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I'll Guess that it would cost 8 to 12k for the ramada and 30 to 40k for the garage, bath, loft and septic. That would maybe be the
guestment in Punta Chivato where prices are high.
Bahia Concepcion where life starts...given a chance!
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mcfez
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Posts: 8678
Registered: 12-2-2009
Location: aka BN yankeeirishman
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| Quote: | Originally posted by halcyondays
Just to clarify---I have NO intention of commercially fishing in Mexico.
I do that up in Oregon 5 months of the year.
It's a 18 hour, 7 day a week job, for that 5 months.
And it affords us time off to spend time in Baja.
Thanks for all the advice.
I realize we need to be there.
Just trying to get everyone's advice as to not be a 'dummy' about it.
Its starting to seem as though it may be smartest to build a garage and house our truck in it.
Then we can use the garage as living space when we are there.
Building can be years away.....we just want to have a vehicle, a roof, and a shower, while we get acclimated. |
Just a cider block two car garage with a Banos inside then. A palapa is a waste of money...they require LOTS of maintenance every other year or so. I
haven't seen one yet that held up to the conditions of Baja.
Everyone here really was trying to tell you...live Baja for a while before building .....
Old people are like the old cars, made of some tough stuff. May show a little rust, but good as gold on the inside.
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Cypress
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7641
Registered: 3-12-2006
Location: on the bayou
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Mood: undecided
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| Quote: | Originally posted by mcfez[/i
Everyone here really was trying to tell you...live Baja for a while before building ..... |
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Russ
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6742
Registered: 7-4-2004
Location: Punta Chivato
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| Quote: |
Just a cider block two car garage with a Banos inside then. A palapa is a waste of money...they require LOTS of maintenance every other year or so. I
haven't seen one yet that held up to the conditions of Baja. |
I also agree with living here for awhile before buying or building.
The roofs that have had the most damage here have been those that do not have plywood sheeting under the roofing material. Home insurance I believe
requires it. There have been just as many home/garage roofs as ramada roofs damaged during hurricanes. Much of the roof damage comes from flying
debris so it is important that neighbors secure the stuff in their yards be for leaving for the summer. It has also become obvious that some
contractors have short nailed the sub roofing and lamina. Also window & door frames have been pushed in because they weren't secured properly.
There are a lot of things you'll become aware of when you spend time in the area you hope to call home. Another tip is to orientate you building to
take advantage of the sun & seasonal wind direction. You'll have fun learning how we've adapted to our bad ideas or taken advantage of others good
ideas.
Bahia Concepcion where life starts...given a chance!
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Skeet/Loreto
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4709
Registered: 9-2-2003
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I somewhat diagree with the other Posters on the Palapa and its life Span.
I built Rancho Sonrisa over30 years ago and when I visited last year the guy I sold it too was just putting on new "Ojas"/ There was no Plywood used
at all, only Thirteen Thousand "ojas" from the Arroyos in the Mountains above Loreto.
I also had the smaller Palapa Built with out any use of Metal. Everything was tied down by Rawhide which we got the Skins from Rancho Viego and made
our RawHide Strips and tied them on all the Ojas/
It can be done but you will have to find some of the Ole Timers that know how to find, Cut, and install Ojas... May not be any of them around.
Also Rancho Sonrisa is still standing on the beach North of the la Pinta in Loreto. It is built out of Palm Posts.
When in Baja do as the Mexicanos do !
Skeet
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durrelllrobert
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7393
Registered: 11-22-2007
Location: Punta Banda BC
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Mood: thriving in Baja
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| Quote: | Originally posted by mcfez
I have NO intention of commercially fishing in Mexico.
I do that up in Oregon 5 months of the year.
It's a 18 hour, 7 day a week job, for that 5 months.
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so, are you one the guys out of Coos Bay that comes down to Half Moon Bay before your season starts?
Bob Durrell
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Gaucho
Nomad
Posts: 405
Registered: 11-7-2008
Location: Laguna Beach/East Cape
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Mood: Bohemia por favor...
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Russ
| Quote: |
Just a cider block two car garage with a Banos inside then. A palapa is a waste of money...they require LOTS of maintenance every other year or so. I
haven't seen one yet that held up to the conditions of Baja. |
I also agree with living here for awhile before buying or building.
The roofs that have had the most damage here have been those that do not have plywood sheeting under the roofing material. Home insurance I believe
requires it. There have been just as many home/garage roofs as ramada roofs damaged during hurricanes. Much of the roof damage comes from flying
debris so it is important that neighbors secure the stuff in their yards be for leaving for the summer. It has also become obvious that some
contractors have short nailed the sub roofing and lamina. Also window & door frames have been pushed in because they weren't secured properly.
There are a lot of things you'll become aware of when you spend time in the area you hope to call home. Another tip is to orientate you building to
take advantage of the sun & seasonal wind direction. You'll have fun learning how we've adapted to our bad ideas or taken advantage of others good
ideas. |
Russ, it seems like doing a flat, tridipanel (foam) and cement roof would be a good option don't you think? My reasoning is it would be virtually zero
maintenance but you could also set up an open air living space up top with some sort of shade structure. Apart from the shade structure it seems like
it would hold up well in bad weather too.
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pacside
Nomad
Posts: 316
Registered: 1-16-2006
Location: N. Cal
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We've done what you are contemplating. We love our place and use it frequently. That being said, the whole process isn't for the faint hearted.
However, my recommendation is to not take out 200k home equity line (especially if it is your only cash source) without first spending a good amount
of time in the area.
There are many places you could negotiate an inexpensive monthly or 6 month lease. Then spend as much time getting to know the locals. Go to
restaurants, taco stands, cafe's and start up conversations. People there love to talk about how they were able to build this or that for this much
money. Many have very good contacts for local labor or contractors...BUT most of this info is gleaned by being down there and just meeting and talking
to people.
If you have decided on a lot and want to build something. Do what most do and build a small bodega/garage type place that is sturdy where you would
enjoy staying that has the minimum amenities. After spending time there you can then make an informed decision on how much dinero you want to spend on
main casa if you still wanted to do that. You will also know more people and know what prices are fair and get good references.
Good luck and have fun.
pacside
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monoloco
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6667
Registered: 7-13-2009
Location: Pescadero BCS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
I somewhat diagree with the other Posters on the Palapa and its life Span.
I built Rancho Sonrisa over30 years ago and when I visited last year the guy I sold it too was just putting on new "Ojas"/ There was no Plywood used
at all, only Thirteen Thousand "ojas" from the Arroyos in the Mountains above Loreto.
I also had the smaller Palapa Built with out any use of Metal. Everything was tied down by Rawhide which we got the Skins from Rancho Viego and made
our RawHide Strips and tied them on all the Ojas/
It can be done but you will have to find some of the Ole Timers that know how to find, Cut, and install Ojas... May not be any of them around.
Also Rancho Sonrisa is still standing on the beach North of the la Pinta in Loreto. It is built out of Palm Posts.
When in Baja do as the Mexicanos do !
Skeet |
I agree Skeet, a palapa built in the traditional manner using only dry hojas, and tied, not nailed
will last a very long time. Also make sure they use palo de arco to tie the leaves to, not carrizo, palo zorillo horcones, and palm for the vigas, and
it's very important that all the materials are cut during the full moon.
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oladulce
Super Nomad
Posts: 1625
Registered: 5-30-2005
Location: bcs
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I can see where halcyondays is coming from- they want to be able to use their property when they go down to visit. They aren't interested in renting
a place etc because they already know they like their property and location.
I told him in a u2u some of the mistakes or things we'd do differently such as NOT getting an older, inexpensive trailer then building a palapa and
2 or 3 wind block/enclosure walls around making it difficult to remove later on. After a few years our old trailer parts started breaking and RV
replacements were so expensive we wished we'd have just put up a couple more walls and built a small casita to start with at our old place.
A newer trailer would be a different story, but by the time they invest in a newer one and a palapa the cost is comparable to building a casita.
$15-20k for a newish trailer, another $15k + for a palapa over it (a low-ball price of a palapa in our area) which is about how much we spent to build
the 500 sf casita we're living in- granted this was without solar, water, and septic factored in. Transportation of materials adds about 30% to
building costs here , so they say.
Like Russ' suggestion, I recommended they start with a solid garage for storage, septic, water storage, then a shower/toilet and cooking facilities.
We were very comfortable for 13 yrs with this set up for our Baja vacations. They can do this a little at a time as budget allows.
We started with these same basics when we bought the new place 5 yrs ago and were still sleeping in our camper until just a few months ago. Hot water
for showers, a toilet, some wind block and shade, and a little concrete pad or two to get you out of the dirt feels decadent, like luxury camping and
is do-able for many years. As long as you have a BIG , secure garage you're off to a good start .
I like palapa for shade structures and over patios, but it's not for me for indoor living spaces and definitely not a garage. Since they won't be
living fulltime on their property, they won't be there to spray (or hire someone to spray) for bugs every few months.
Foam block/concrete roofs (not foam panels) are the norm where we are for durability and insulation .
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Skeet/Loreto
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4709
Registered: 9-2-2003
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You know Loco some people look at you like you are Crazy when you tell them the Hojas need to be cut during the Full Moon.
I put 27 Windows in the Palapa all had made on Site by an old Time Boat Builder. That was when the Shrimp Boats were made of all Wood.
We were right on the Beach so did not ever neeed Air Cond. Got alon fine with Fans, except at certain times of the year when the marine Bats decided
to come visit and Hit the Fan blades and end up on top of us in the Bed!!
I though Virginia was going to leave Loreto the First time that happened.
If you can buld using the old time methods it is a lot of Fun and gives you connections with your Mexicanos.
Skeet
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MitchMan
Super Nomad
Posts: 1856
Registered: 3-9-2009
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It costs approx $20-$25 per sq ft for materials and another $15 to $25 per sq ft for direct labor depending on how much labor you do and what you pay
for laborers and a good abanil to do all the work. If you pay a contractor to do the job, he will pocket everything you pay above the $40 -$50 per sq
ft for the direct labor and materials. This amount you are paying the contractor above the $40-$50 is just for his management and supervision of the
project. The contractor will be on site for only 10% - 20% of the time the structure is being built, if that. Either way (contractor or abanil), you
should be there 100% of the time during construction.
I like the concept of a combined garage and living space. If I had it to do all over again, that is definitely what I would do. It's cheaper and
gives the pleasure of open floor plan construction. Also, Mexican culture provides for living as much time as possible outside instead of spending
alot of time inside your dwelling. It's how you take advantage of the wealther.
Just a tip, I would suggest 120 sq ft of living space per ton of air conditioning. Get A/C that also functions as a heater. I like mini-splits as
they are much quieter than wall units.
[Edited on 12-9-2010 by MitchMan]
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motoged
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6481
Registered: 7-31-2006
Location: Kamloops, BC
Member Is Offline
Mood: Gettin' Better
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
You know Loco some people look at you like you are Crazy when you tell them the Hojas need to be cut during the Full Moon.Skeet
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Skeet,
Although tinged with a hippie temperament, I agree with you....when building log houses, putting in fences and gardens in the "old days", we paid
attention to the moon's cycle when cutting, planting, and posting (fences) as the water content of soil, logs, and leaves is determined by the moon's
cycle....
But you can call me crazy, too 
Don't believe everything you think....
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monoloco
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6667
Registered: 7-13-2009
Location: Pescadero BCS
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I used to think that the full moon thing was just superstition, but having been around here and seeing the difference I am totally convinced that it
makes a big difference in the bug resistance.
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Gaucho
Nomad
Posts: 405
Registered: 11-7-2008
Location: Laguna Beach/East Cape
Member Is Offline
Mood: Bohemia por favor...
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| Quote: | Originally posted by oladulce
I can see where halcyondays is coming from- they want to be able to use their property when they go down to visit. They aren't interested in renting
a place etc because they already know they like their property and location.
I told him in a u2u some of the mistakes or things we'd do differently such as NOT getting an older, inexpensive trailer then building a palapa and
2 or 3 wind block/enclosure walls around making it difficult to remove later on. After a few years our old trailer parts started breaking and RV
replacements were so expensive we wished we'd have just put up a couple more walls and built a small casita to start with at our old place.
A newer trailer would be a different story, but by the time they invest in a newer one and a palapa the cost is comparable to building a casita.
$15-20k for a newish trailer, another $15k + for a palapa over it (a low-ball price of a palapa in our area) which is about how much we spent to build
the 500 sf casita we're living in- granted this was without solar, water, and septic factored in. Transportation of materials adds about 30% to
building costs here , so they say.
Like Russ' suggestion, I recommended they start with a solid garage for storage, septic, water storage, then a shower/toilet and cooking facilities.
We were very comfortable for 13 yrs with this set up for our Baja vacations. They can do this a little at a time as budget allows.
We started with these same basics when we bought the new place 5 yrs ago and were still sleeping in our camper until just a few months ago. Hot water
for showers, a toilet, some wind block and shade, and a little concrete pad or two to get you out of the dirt feels decadent, like luxury camping and
is do-able for many years. As long as you have a BIG , secure garage you're off to a good start .
I like palapa for shade structures and over patios, but it's not for me for indoor living spaces and definitely not a garage. Since they won't be
living fulltime on their property, they won't be there to spray (or hire someone to spray) for bugs every few months.
Foam block/concrete roofs (not foam panels) are the norm where we are for durability and insulation . |
oladulce, what would you consider a BIG garage? I would want enough room to put a truck and a smaller boat (17-20') on a trailor. Are the foam blocks
you're talking about diff. from the Tridipanels made in Mexicali?
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thefishaholic
Nomad
Posts: 115
Registered: 4-8-2006
Location: Colorado Springs
Member Is Offline
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Info from Cabo
Sent U an U2U.
Welcome to Baja!!!
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longlegsinlapaz
Super Nomad
Posts: 1685
Registered: 11-18-2005
Location: La Paz
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| Quote: | Originally posted by oladulce
Foam block/concrete roofs (not foam panels) are the norm where we are for durability and insulation. |
| Quote: | Originally posted by Gaucho
Are the foam blocks you're talking about diff. from the Tridipanels made in Mexicali? |
Gaucho, Oladulce can correct me if I misinterpreted....but I believe the roofing system she's referring to is like mine & can be viewed at: http://www.talkbaja.com/showthread.php?&t=447 Post #14 within the thread, dated 7-18-09.
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Gaucho
Nomad
Posts: 405
Registered: 11-7-2008
Location: Laguna Beach/East Cape
Member Is Offline
Mood: Bohemia por favor...
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| Quote: | Originally posted by longlegsinlapaz
| Quote: | Originally posted by oladulce
Foam block/concrete roofs (not foam panels) are the norm where we are for durability and insulation. |
| Quote: | Originally posted by Gaucho
Are the foam blocks you're talking about diff. from the Tridipanels made in Mexicali? |
Gaucho, Oladulce can correct me if I misinterpreted....but I believe the roofing system she's referring to is like mine & can be viewed at: http://www.talkbaja.com/showthread.php?&t=447 Post #14 within the thread, dated 7-18-09. |
Thanks Legs. I remember following your construction on Ron's site. I think they use more of the panel construction where my property is at. I believe
the tridipanel is more expensive. I'll have to research the foam blocks a little more.
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mcfez
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8678
Registered: 12-2-2009
Location: aka BN yankeeirishman
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
You know Loco some people look at you like you are Crazy when you tell them the Hojas need to be cut during the Full Moon.
I put 27 Windows in the Palapa all had made on Site by an old Time Boat Builder. That was when the Shrimp Boats were made of all Wood.
We were right on the Beach so did not ever neeed Air Cond. Got alon fine with Fans, except at certain times of the year when the marine Bats decided
to come visit and Hit the Fan blades and end up on top of us in the Bed!!
I though Virginia was going to leave Loreto the First time that happened.
If you can buld using the old time methods it is a lot of Fun and gives you connections with your Mexicanos.
Skeet |
Skeet.....
A most useful and interesting posts you have made here. I being a nerd at reading about alternative building and "weird" building
applications.......I'm going to research these old timers ways of doing things. You made a dent in my thinking ways on construction. Thanks! WLUK in a
month of what I came up with.
By the way...how you feeling after the op? Miss that big German nurse with the hairy armpits?
Old people are like the old cars, made of some tough stuff. May show a little rust, but good as gold on the inside.
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mcfez
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8678
Registered: 12-2-2009
Location: aka BN yankeeirishman
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halcyondays wanted a simple inexpensive joint to kick in a few times ...not a fancy dancy house! No need for all that Styrofoam tech....unless you
plan to live there full time...otherwise a simple 18000 btu ac from Home Depot will keep penguins happy!
Old people are like the old cars, made of some tough stuff. May show a little rust, but good as gold on the inside.
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