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Cardon Man
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| Quote: | Originally posted by MrBillM[/i
The strong reaction at the University of Mexico and the (unintended) National Guard Mow-down at Kent State put an end to what no amount of previous
"Reasoning" did. The Guardsmen turned out to be accidental heroes.
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13 unarmed kids shot and 4 killed at Kent state. Dozens more killed at the Tlatelolco massacre in Mexico City. Accidental heroes eh?
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MrBillM
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Heroes
The response at Kent State, as a practical matter, brought an end to the cycle of campus rioting and that made the results worthwhile.
Besides, in addition to being Crazed Left-Wingers, the "Victims" were an example of Darwin's Dropouts. Charging up a hill towards armed soldiers
wasn't that bright. They learned that day.
As one who viewed the '65 Watts riots up close and personal, the lesson I saw those days was that ONLY force is respected. When those National
Guardsmen started shooting people, things were brought under control
While the street "Bobbies" in London are (still) unarmed, the Police and Scotland Yard have numerous squads of well-armed response units.
When dealing with a Mob, early harsh response is the key.
Hurt them BAD and FAST.
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Cardon Man
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I gottcha. Like the heroes that killed 5 men at the Boston Massacre in 1770. Funny how the heros are a matter of perspective.
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BajaBlanca
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however.................if I remember correctly, sometime in the past before we moved here (I think), teachers here in both Baja Norte and Baja Sur
wreaked havoc when they stopped traffic on highway 1. so, discontent lies quiet for only so long and then one day BINGO. it explodes. and it is not
necessarily related to economics only - there is student chaos in Chile right now and I understand that their economy is booming.
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Ken Cooke
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Well said
| Quote: | Originally posted by Cardon Man
The "youths" are no less crazy than they have ever been. It's not like people just decided to riot for fun either. In typical fashion, it's the cops
that lit the match by killing a young man in a poor London neighborhood. When people are poor, frustrated, and victimized by the police...violence is
the result. |
I was searched on Oxford Street in 1985 - for being Black, and an American tourist in London. No, I didn't like the Bobbie's searching through my
pockets, either.
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CortezBlue
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Under the current administration you will see the same issues in the USA
When you start giving FREE food, education or anything else and then take it away, folks get peeed.
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MrBillM
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Boston Analogy
Prickly Cardon Thoughts:
"I gottcha. Like the heroes that killed 5 men at the Boston Massacre in 1770. Funny how the heros [sic] are a matter of perspective".
-------------------------------------------
Indeed, it is perspective and, while the analogy is imperfect, it IS another case of Mob behavior triggering unintended consequences.
In that case a group of 8 or 9 British Soldiers (doing their legal duty) were confronted and surrounded by an angry
mob, estimated at 300 to 400. That mob, according to the defense (founding father and later President) John Adams,
consisted of "a motley rabble of saucy boys, negroes, and molattoes, Irish teagues and outlandish jack tarrs".
The nervous soldiers, like the National Guardsmen, felt threatened, and according to witnesses, ONE discharged his musket and triggered a
chain-reaction.
While they certainly were not acting Heroically, they were also certainly not Villains and the jury, although convicting two of Manslaughter, saw the
justification for their fears.
In referring to the National Guardsmen as "accidental" heroes, I am saying it in the sense that the incident had a salutary effect on
future (non) events.
[Edited on 8-10-2011 by MrBillM]
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Russ
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I think protests are healthy. But when a few take it to a violent level the crowd mentality does not have a conscience and things turn ugly fast. It
is heart breaking when you see businesses being broken into and torched. Very sad! Of course it could happen in Baja. It's happening on all over the
world right now.
Bahia Concepcion where life starts...given a chance!
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Bajajorge
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Due to the permissive, politically correct upbringing of todays youth, they have no respect for anybody or anything. They expect everything to be
given to them on a silver platter. When they don't get what they want, they "act out". (I think that is the PC word for the youths inappropriate
behavior)
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Cardon Man
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It has been noted that the image of a hooded sweatshirt wearing teenage rioter is a media generated stereo type used to sell the story. There are
people of all ages involved. There's more to this story than "youths" acting out. Frankly, i don't think many of the young people I know have the
attention span and energy to "act out" to this degree and for this long.
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DENNIS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Ken Cooke
No, I didn't like the Bobbie's searching through my pockets, either.
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Ohhh....you did too. 
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Puckdrop
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Hey, hey, hey, we are but a peace loving nation. What happened drarroyo, did an RCMP take away your beer and back bacon  Perhaps some Montreal smoked meat and a dozen Molson Canadian will cool you
off, EH.
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drarroyo
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Puckdrop
Hey, hey, hey, we are but a peace loving nation. What happened drarroyo, did an RCMP take away your beer and back bacon Perhaps some Montreal smoked meat and a dozen Molson Canadian will cool you
off, EH. |
jaja just joshin'
luvin' the Canucks
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Puckdrop
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Ya, I know
peace cousin
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MrBillM
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Indecisive is Idiocy
When dealing with a mob.
Last night, I was watching the clips of the Unamed (except for plastic shields) Riot cops Running FROM the crowd.
Pitiful.
AND, the authorities are DEBATING whether or not to resort to "Plastic" Bullets.
Those who allow the Mob to dictate the terms of engagement deserve whatever Destruction and Death result.
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toneart
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Way off base!
| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajajorge
Due to the permissive, politically correct upbringing of todays youth, they have no respect for anybody or anything. They expect everything to be
given to them on a silver platter. When they don't get what they want, they "act out". (I think that is the PC word for the youths inappropriate
behavior) |
This is pure rhetoric; BS! Addressing the case in point, the people who are rioting in England certainly have not had the "upbringing" that teaches
"political correctness".
To address Mr. Bile: Violence begets violence. Police violence is what triggered this. THEN it escalated and got out of control. However, there is no
excusing the wanton marauding, burning and looting. At that point the police have to use whatever tools they have at hand to quell the violence.
You are correct in that this is a "mob" doing violence. Mobs act in a collective, mindless way, without a clear political motive or purpose other than
to destroy.
One cannot equate this with the Kent State murders by a couple of Ohio National Guardsmen. It was not a general order. The kids who were murdered
were demonstrating on a principle, but they also believed that what happened could never happen in the U.S.A., on a college campus. It was an anomaly
and shouldn't have happened!
Obviously you disagree with the principle, but your hate behind your opinion can in no way justify what happened. If it had satisfied your objective,
then it was counter productive. It served as a further catalyst to mobilize the country against the Vietnam War. 
I had said earlier that I don't think it could happen in Baja. Well, I guess it could happen anywhere that you have great economic disparity. It would
have to be triggered by police or military violence. Without that trigger it is just a demonstration with a purpose. With it, it escalates into mob
rule until it is put down...or in the case of the Arab Spring, the objective remained clear and there was eventually an achieved victory.
(momentarily, anyway).
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JoeJustJoe
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London's Burning, could it happen on the Baja?
I doubt this will happen in Baja because Baja and Mexico is made up largely of monolithic dark-skinned Mexicans that share the same culture, although
there is a ruling class in Mexico the Mexican people should riot against.
Although gringo expats in Mexico might think they are the ruling class. There is really no reason for the Mexican people to rise up against Americans
living in Mexico. Gringos should just worry about getting robbed, ran over by car, or eating contaminated food and things of that nature.
However, I would say what is happening in the London could very easily happen in the US, espeically in cities with a large oppressed minority of
Blacks and Latinos.
Watt Riot II showed how little power the police have when the black community in South Central LA reacted to the unfairness to the Rodney King beating
and the all white blind jury that freed those animals with badges from the LAPD.
In 2006 when 100,000 young Mexican marched in LA over the unfairness of the GOP Congress of trying to pass a law making it a felony for just being
in the US without papers. I shutter to think what would have happened if the crowd got angry and decided to riot. LA would have burned to the ground
before the police and national guard could regain control.
So yes something like what's happening in London could easily happen in the USA's urban cities, especially in this environment of very high minority
unemployment and the GOP controlled Congress being hell bent to make the rich richer, and the poor poorer.
Images from the rioting and the aftermath. Can this happen in the US in cities like Washington, LA, NY, Chicago, Dallas.......etc.
The answer is yes. Revolutions happen all the time if you look at history, and it's about time revolution happens in both the UK and US. Mexican's in
Mexico should over throw their corrupt government too.
[Edited on 8-10-2011 by JoeJustJoe]
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MrBillM
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Rioters
Shoot them down like the Dogs they are.
Immediate Harsh Response has ALWAYS had a positive result.
A slow response has ALWAYS been a mistake.
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Woooosh
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| Quote: | Originally posted by MrBillM
When dealing with a mob.
Last night, I was watching the clips of the Unamed (except for plastic shields) Riot cops Running FROM the crowd.
Pitiful.
AND, the authorities are DEBATING whether or not to resort to "Plastic" Bullets.
Those who allow the Mob to dictate the terms of engagement deserve whatever Destruction and Death result. |
No words needed...
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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MitchMan
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Sorry, MrBill, your response is simply not a civilized one. I am getting the distinct feeling you are a "the end justifies the means" type of guy.
That type of reasoning and approach is just fundamentally wrong and often inhumane and immoral.
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