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gnukid
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drop it, it's rude and unhelpful to speculate about accidents
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DENNIS
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Waiting to see the fotos, but the San Diego news just said the boat was being towed back to port. I guess it wasn't as mangled as reports said it
was...like, completely destroyed.
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Islandbuilder
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
Waiting to see the fotos, but the San Diego news just said the boat was being towed back to port. I guess it wasn't as mangled as reports said it
was...like, completely destroyed. |
Even though I disagree with some of what gnukid said, I agree that when we discuss anything based on news reports, we are all largly ignorant of the
truth. Case in point, was the boat reduced to small debris, or is the wreck still afloat and under tow? Two mutually exclusive assertions. A floating
wreck supports the big ship collision theory; a cloud of debris a high speed run-down by a smuggler.
Gnu is right, better to wait until we have some facts. But at some point it is healthy to Monday morning quarterback what happened with the intent
that perhaps, maybe, it won't happen again to someone else.
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Islandbuilder
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Very true, even if you're booming along at 7 knots, a big vessel going 22 knots is closing on you at 15 knots. A few thousand tons going that speed
packs a lot of energy. I think that the 8' bow wave would at least deflect a small boat from a direct hit, more of a glancing blow. He would loose the
rig, railings and arch, but the hull should come through it more or less intact. However, the crew would be thrown around very violently, probably
injured by the collapsing rig, and thrown into the sea. Not a good day at all.
At this point, all this is speculation, but it is a more believeable scenario if the hull is mostly intact. There may be paint transfer from the other
vessel that will shed some light on the facts.
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DENNIS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Islandbuilder
Gnu is right, better to wait until we have some facts. But at some point it is healthy to Monday morning quarterback what happened with the intent
that perhaps, maybe, it won't happen again to someone else. |
If we waited for facts to surface before we discussed events, this would be a very quiet world.
Keeping respect for the deceased, speculation is, in most cases, all we will ever have. I indulge in it freely.
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Ateo
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I seem to remember a similar event about 5 years ago involving a fishing boat off the Coronados.....boat was never seen again, no radio calls, just
speculation that it was run over by a large freighter in the fog.
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Ateo
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I don't think this link has been posted yet:
http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2012/apr/30/few-answers-in-sa...
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gnukid
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Here is a link to the Spot Tracker data from the yacht until impact:
http://share.findmespot.com/shared/faces/viewspots.jsp?glId=...
The track follows the progress of the yacht at a steady rate, apparently motoring directly into the face of the North island.
[Edited on 5-2-2012 by gnukid]
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MrBillM
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Since Speculation is rampant ............
WHY has the possibility not been considered that an Alien Spaceship was involved ?
I've Heard often that they've been responsible for a number of Earthly disasters.
Who's to say ?
Gnu ?
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MrBillM
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Of Course we KNOW
That advanced Alien Technology could EASILY manipulate ANY Earth Technology such as GPS to make the situation
Appear to be something different.
They are MASTERS at such Misdirection.
We KNOW.
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bajario
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San Diego- Two sailors found off the Coronado Islands during a yacht race died of blunt force injuries while a third drowned, the San Diego County
Medical Examiner’s Office said Tuesday.
William Reed Johnson Jr., 57, of Torrance died from multiple blunt force injuries. Kevin Rudolph, 53, of Manhattan Beach died from blunt injuries to
the head and neck. And Joseph Lester Stewart, 64, of Bradenton, Fla., drowned.
The boat’s owner and skipper, Theo Mavromatis, 49, of Redondo Beach, remains missing at sea.
The Coast Guard is continuing to investigate what caused the deadly accident 10 to 15 miles off San Diego during an annual race from Newport Beach to
Ensenada. The Aegean dropped off an online tracking system at 1:30 a.m. Saturday, and shards of wreckage were discovered west of the islands soon
after.
Initial evidence points to the possibility that the 37-foot Hunter sailboat was struck by a much larger vessel in Mexican waters. Shipping lanes
crisscross through parts of the race route, and investigators are working to identify ships that were in the area at the time. No new details were
released in the investigation Tuesday.
No eyewitnesses to the tragedy have emerged, said Coast Guard spokesman Henry Dunphy.
It could take several weeks before investigators reach a conclusion in the case, he said.
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DENNIS
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The "larger ship" theory is coming into question. [short blurb I just heard on the news. Stay tuned.....]
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DENNIS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by bajario
San Diego- Two sailors found off the Coronado Islands during a yacht race died of blunt force injuries . |
When I read things like this, it makes me nervous.
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sancho
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
.
Keeping respect for the deceased, speculation is, in most cases, all we will ever have. I indulge in it freely. |
This board would have to cease if speculation was not
a part of the discussion. I see tankers off the Coronados/
Rosarito, is that an Elec Power Plant or Pemex no. of
Rosarito? Logic says floating in shipping lanes at nite
is hazardous. Wonder if a notice to Mariners is sent
out ahead of a Sailboat Race? There are many activities
that have risk, 200 bicyclists are killed in Ca. yrly
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David K
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Last night's San Diego News said they may have sailed into one of the Coronado Islands... ? Wouldn't there be some wreckage on the shorline, if so?
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J.P.
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Yahoo news said thy may have sailed into a place on Coronado where there is a sheer rock cliff and where there is no beach.
[Edited on 5-2-2012 by J.P.]
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Cypress
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They hit an island.
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bajaguy
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Mood: must be 5 O'clock somewhere in Baja
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SPOT Track
if you click on the SPOT tracking link:
http://share.findmespot.com/shared/faces/viewspots.jsp?glId=...
Then zoom in on track #50 until it nearly fills the page with the tip of the island. Click on the "hybred" tab in the upper right corner......shows
the SPOT track as an overlay on a satellite photo of the island.......very unfriendly place to run aground
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oxxo
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This just in from Latitude 38 electronic magazine.
*****************************************
Transponder Info Clarifies Aegean Tragedy
May 2, 2012 – Coronado Islands, Mexico
According to Aegean's SPOT track, she remained on the same SE course from about 10:15 p.m., April 27, until 1:30 the next morning, when she apparently
hit the island. © 2012 SPOT
At least part of the mystery of how the Redondo Beach-based Hunter 376 Aegean was destroyed during last weekend's Lexus Newport to Ensenada Race may
have been solved. Aegean's SPOT Messenger GPS track shows the boat on a constant course and speed for more than three hours — leading them directly
onto the rocky shore of North Coronado Island. This almost certainly eliminates the possibility that Aegean was hit by a ship, which had been the most
prevalent initial speculation.
Lt. Bill Fitzgerald of USCG Sector San Diego says that investigators "have a substantial amount of evidence of a particular scenario," and Aegean's
running into the island was "one of the primary possibilities." He noted that the GPS track was just one of the pieces of evidence. Fitzgerald was
also quick to point out that investigators are not ready to announce a conclusion at this point, but hope to do so soon.
The rest of the mystery is why Aegean was kept on a constant course toward a solid obstruction. It's possible that the crew was overcome by carbon
monoxide poisoning from a faulty exhaust. It's possible that whoever was on watch at that late hour fell asleep. There are other possible explanations
also, of course. We may never know the full story. For what it's worth, Theo Mavromatis, who chartered the boat, is said to have been an experienced
skipper, which is supported by the fact that he'd won his division in the Ensenada Race on two previous occasions.
A few people have clung to the 'hit by a ship' theory based on that fact that Low Speed Chase, which went onto the rocky shore of the Farallones
during the huge surf of the Full Crew Farallones Race on April 14, remained intact enough to be removed from the island by helicopter, while Aegean,
in much smaller four-foot swells, appears to have been broken into small pieces. It doesn't seem curious to us, as Low Speed Chase appeared to have
been washed up on a ledge, while Aegean mostly likely was repeatedly slammed against a steep and jagged shore. It was something like six hours between
the time her GPS signal was lost and the first bits of her were discovered near the island by Eric Lamb of Vessel Assist. Given a sufficiently jagged
shore, that's plenty of time for a fiberglass boat to be left in little pieces.
The San Diego County medical examiner reports that Kevin Eric Rudolph, 53, of Manhattan Beach, died of blunt force injuries to his head and neck;
William Reed Johnson Jr., 57, of Torrance, died of multiple blunt force injuries; and Joseph Lester Stewart, 64, of Bradenton, FL, drowned. Theo
Mavromatis, 49, is still missing.
The Aegean tragedy marks the first fatalities in the Newport to Ensenada Race, which has been held for 65 years, and at the height of popularity
attracted well over 500 entries. We think it's worth noting that most major sailing events on the West Coast — the TransPac, the Pacific Cup, the
Singlehanded TransPac, and the Baja Ha-Ha have all had long histories without any fatalities. This is not to say that it can't happen in those events,
or that there was anything about the Ensenada Race that made it unusually risky, but rather that West Coast offshore racing events are generally quite
safe.
- latitude / richard
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Cisco
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| Quote: | Originally posted by oxxo
This just in from Latitude 38 electronic magazine.
*****************************************
Transponder Info Clarifies Aegean Tragedy
May 2, 2012 – Coronado Islands, Mexico
According to Aegean's SPOT track, she remained on the same SE course from about 10:15 p.m., April 27, until 1:30 the next morning, when she apparently
hit the island. © 2012 SPOT
At least part of the mystery of how the Redondo Beach-based Hunter 376 Aegean was destroyed during last weekend's Lexus Newport to Ensenada Race may
have been solved. Aegean's SPOT Messenger GPS track shows the boat on a constant course and speed for more than three hours — leading them directly
onto the rocky shore of North Coronado Island. This almost certainly eliminates the possibility that Aegean was hit by a ship, which had been the most
prevalent initial speculation.
Lt. Bill Fitzgerald of USCG Sector San Diego says that investigators "have a substantial amount of evidence of a particular scenario," and Aegean's
running into the island was "one of the primary possibilities." He noted that the GPS track was just one of the pieces of evidence. Fitzgerald was
also quick to point out that investigators are not ready to announce a conclusion at this point, but hope to do so soon.
The rest of the mystery is why Aegean was kept on a constant course toward a solid obstruction. It's possible that the crew was overcome by carbon
monoxide poisoning from a faulty exhaust. It's possible that whoever was on watch at that late hour fell asleep. There are other possible explanations
also, of course. We may never know the full story. For what it's worth, Theo Mavromatis, who chartered the boat, is said to have been an experienced
skipper, which is supported by the fact that he'd won his division in the Ensenada Race on two previous occasions.
A few people have clung to the 'hit by a ship' theory based on that fact that Low Speed Chase, which went onto the rocky shore of the Farallones
during the huge surf of the Full Crew Farallones Race on April 14, remained intact enough to be removed from the island by helicopter, while Aegean,
in much smaller four-foot swells, appears to have been broken into small pieces. It doesn't seem curious to us, as Low Speed Chase appeared to have
been washed up on a ledge, while Aegean mostly likely was repeatedly slammed against a steep and jagged shore. It was something like six hours between
the time her GPS signal was lost and the first bits of her were discovered near the island by Eric Lamb of Vessel Assist. Given a sufficiently jagged
shore, that's plenty of time for a fiberglass boat to be left in little pieces.
The San Diego County medical examiner reports that Kevin Eric Rudolph, 53, of Manhattan Beach, died of blunt force injuries to his head and neck;
William Reed Johnson Jr., 57, of Torrance, died of multiple blunt force injuries; and Joseph Lester Stewart, 64, of Bradenton, FL, drowned. Theo
Mavromatis, 49, is still missing.
The Aegean tragedy marks the first fatalities in the Newport to Ensenada Race, which has been held for 65 years, and at the height of popularity
attracted well over 500 entries. We think it's worth noting that most major sailing events on the West Coast — the TransPac, the Pacific Cup, the
Singlehanded TransPac, and the Baja Ha-Ha have all had long histories without any fatalities. This is not to say that it can't happen in those events,
or that there was anything about the Ensenada Race that made it unusually risky, but rather that West Coast offshore racing events are generally quite
safe.
- latitude / richard |
A problem some navigators have is assigning waypoints on the GPS that are solid, instead of putting them off an obstruction a few hundred feet or
yards, they run right into them if on the pilot.
Do these boats run their engine when racing? Thought it was all sail.
If they planted the boat on "Pukey Point", north point North Coronado Island they certainly would not hit a sheer face but rather heavy rip-rap and
boulders that would tear a large boat up and cause blunt force trauma to humans.
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