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BajaNomad
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Perhaps overkill for Ateo based upon what has been posted... but thought it worth sharing in this thread topic. I have zero experience with solar
thus far, so don't know how the specs match up with the other possibilities. Still like the slick portable aspect of this though...
Features:
2 Universal AC Outlets
2 DC Outlets with auto-reset, circuit breaker
2 USB Power Ports to charge cell phones, MP3 players, tablets & e-readers, and laptops
Digital voltmeter for checking battery status
AC recharging adapter
DC recharging adapter (fused)
Has terminals for solar panel expansion
Collapsible handle & wheels for easy transport
Hidden storage compartment
Charging Times
Initial AC charge: up to 24 hours
Solar panel charging time: 16 hours peak sunlight
Specifications
Dimensions: 53 × 53 × 37 cm
Weight: 38.2 kg (84 lbs
http://www.wagan.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&...
[Edited on 12-26-2012 by BajaNomad]
When I was young, I admired clever people. Now that I am old, I admire kind people.
– Rabbi Abraham Joshua Heschel
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– John Steinbeck, Log from the Sea of Cortez
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landyacht318
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Hook
As I recall, Danfoss's draw between 6 and 7 amps at 12v, when running. How do you figure they use "less battery"?
Finding replacement parts for many of them, especially the ones from Australia, is a real pain, too. |
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landyacht318
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Danfoss makes many different compressors. the BD 35 compressor is good upto 6 cubic feet with a third of that being the freezer compartment.
At 2000 RPM the Danfoss bd35 pulls about 2.4 amps after a minute or 2. At 3500 RPM it pulls close to 6 amps. A simple resistor placed in the
thermostat circuit allows one to decide on compressor rpm
The BD-50 is the exact same size as the 35, the 50's compressor has a bigger stroke and pulls more electricity.
The compressors themselves have no serviceable parts. The electronic controllers are easily available anywhere, but not cheap(200+$), and the
condenser fans are standard computer fans, also easily replaced.
My old 1.7 cubic foot Norcold pulled 2.7 amps when the compressor was running, and had about a 30% duty cycle at 75f
My new 1.8 cubic foot Danfoss powered Vitrifrigo pulls about 2.4 amps and is down around 25% duty cycle at the same ambient temperatures.
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Alm
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Ateo - it depends on what kind of camping: car, trailer or what.
You may want to check the Tech Issues section of the Open Roads forum. They will probably tell you to do your "energy audit" first.
Russ and others gave you some estimates on what you can expect from a "portable" setup. In a nutshell - very, very little. Assuming a minimalist style
camping, without 12V fridge or any 120V gadgets like coffee maker or toaster, you need at least 120W panel to cover your daily needs. This is a sheet
about 4x3 ft, weight 20 lbs. "Portable", yes, though with some pain. You can lean it on the South side against the trailer tongue or whatever you
have, and get 30-40 Ah a day in winter. This will let you run your propane fridge (yes, it does need a little 12V power) and a few lights and a
CD/radio. You will have enough energy left to charge your phone, and this is it. You probably won't be able to run a laptop. You won't be able to
run a furnace. You will have to make coffee on gas stove and cook and reheat leftovers (if any) on gas stove too. People have been doing it for
centuries so this is doable.
You MIGHT try and squeeze a very small 12V compressor fridge in this energy budget if you insulate it well with Styrene sheets. Considering the cost,
and the fact that even on a cold day it will draw at least same 10 Ah a day as the circuit of a propane fridge - doesn't make much sense if you
already have a propane fridge. For a car camping without propane fridge I would consider one of Engel-like top-loaders. Engels are costly. There are
good top-loaders by other brands too (Dometic/Waeco, I think). Avoid Norcold 12V fridges. Good thing about top-loaders is that they are portable, but
in a trailer you want a built-in fridge like Vitrifrigo that Landyacht bought (expensive too). Again, if you already have an absorption propane fridge
and it works, - you don't have to replace it with 12V compressor model.
The cost of a small solar, including cables and controller, will be $2-$2.50 per watt. More if you go for one of those "kits". You will also have to
add a second battery, to have a safety margin for cloudy days.
People with 500W-600W panels and huge battery banks run everything including medium-size 12V fridge off solar, saving a bit of money on propane and
generator fuel, but this is not your situation.
For a "weekend warrior" there is a proven solution - a lot of batteries. You will deplete them to 30% or 40% SOC by the end of the day 3, and then
recharge at home. No solar. Works for trailers, not so much for car camping.
There are no "quiet" generators, IMO. The quietest of them can be heard for hundreds yards in a calm weather. You will need an enclosure or dig a hole
in the ground if you don't want your neighbors to hate you (unless they have an old generator louder than yours, and then you will hate them).
[Edited on 12-26-2012 by Alm]
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Russ
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I agree, "There are no "quiet" generators".
Talk about a total distraction to a "quiet" evening.
"Isn't our generator quiet? It's a Honda."
WHAT ! If I can hear how quiet it is then it ain't QUIET!
 duh.....
Bahia Concepcion where life starts...given a chance!
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mtgoat666
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Russ
I agree, "There are no "quiet" generators".
Talk about a total distraction to a "quiet" evening.
"Isn't our generator quiet? It's a Honda."
WHAT ! If I can hear how quiet it is then it ain't QUIET!
duh..... |
nothing worse than camping near someone with a generator!
personally, my car-camping energy use is built around a coleman 2-burner camp stove and ice chest. lighting is battery-powered-LED or camp fuel lamp.
can last for quite a while, and not much fuss.
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Alm
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It's all about level of comfort that one needs - or thinks that he needs. To me, noise is too high price to pay for any comfort other than heat on
really cold nights. Furnace needs a lot of power, though you can get away with a good sleeping bag or a down duvet. Permanent residents in RV parks
sometimes have good enclosures and I can't hear their generators. And sometimes they have a derelict diesel circa 1945 that you hear even through the
shed that it's housed in. Transients usually have their generators uncovered. It's not absolutely necessary to carry a generator if you only camp for
a few days - if it's a trailer, get a couple more batteries, if it's a car, get enough dry foods and an ice chest.
Basically, on a short stay you need a fridge or ice chest for drinks only. It's easy enough to carry a week supply of proteins and other nutrients in
a form that needs no refrigeration.
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Hook
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| Quote: |
nothing worse than camping near someone with a generator!
personally, my car-camping energy use is built around a coleman 2-burner camp stove and ice chest. lighting is battery-powered-LED or camp fuel lamp.
can last for quite a while, and not much fuss. |
Yeah, but camping near a guy with a blazing camp fuel lamp is right up there.
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willardguy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Hook
| Quote: |
nothing worse than camping near someone with a generator!
personally, my car-camping energy use is built around a coleman 2-burner camp stove and ice chest. lighting is battery-powered-LED or camp fuel lamp.
can last for quite a while, and not much fuss. |
Yeah, but camping near a guy with a blazing camp fuel lamp is right up there. |
not to mention those
blinding LED lights!
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BajaNomad
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Follow-up....
Didn't remember where I'd come across this prior... but was reminded tonight when I went to Costco in Carmel Mtn Ranch area of San Diego... they have
them there for $699.xx.
When I was young, I admired clever people. Now that I am old, I admire kind people.
– Rabbi Abraham Joshua Heschel
We know we must go back if we live, and we don`t know why.
– John Steinbeck, Log from the Sea of Cortez
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Hook
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That IS a well thought out design. Too bad the battery is only a 55 ah battery, though it is an AGM. Probably good enough for most applications.
But look at that full charge spec for solar. 16 hours at full sun. That's not possible, is it?
It would be nice if it had a 12 DC input, so you could charge it from your alternator while driving. Not sure what those comments mean at the bottom
of the link that reads "Additional batteries can also be connected. Includes AC & DC chargers." Maybe it can be charged externally from a DC
source.
Cheaper than a Honda 1000. Certainly quieter. 
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Ateo
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Thanks again all for taking the time to post and research. I'm doing simple car camping and need a little extra power to charge stuff from time to
time. The unit Russ posted looks about right. Although that $699 unit that BajaNomad posted is pretty cool -- but a bit much for what I need. =)
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monoloco
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You would get more bang for you buck by putting together your own system, solar panels are dirt cheap now and used ones come up on craigslist all the
time. For car camping I would go with a 75-100 watt panel, cheap PWM controller, a 300 watt Morninstar true sinewave inverter, and a 100-150 ah AGM
battery. This would provide you with enough juice for lights, charging, computer, blender, music, and running an Engle as a refrigerator. For around
$500 you would then have a quality system that you could expand on if you wanted.
[Edited on 12-27-2012 by monoloco]
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Russ
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| Quote: | Originally posted by monoloco
You would get more bang for you buck by putting together your own system, solar panels are dirt cheap now and used ones come up on craigslist all the
time. For car camping I would go with a 75-100 watt panel, cheap PWM controller, a 300 watt Morninstar true sinewave inverter, and a 100-150 ah AGM
battery. This would provide you with enough juice for lights, charging, computer, blender, music, and running an Engle as a refrigerator. You would
then have a quality system that you could expand on if you wanted. |
Yes! by far the greatest value and a true sinewave inverter will save the motors from early retirement and other things too.
Bahia Concepcion where life starts...given a chance!
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captkw
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Kiss..keep it simple !!
my self cant stand gens or coleman laterns..soft yellow led on speaker wires work great for night lights and depending on your car/truck you can
install a high amp alternator and extra battery...if you need a gen for camping I say ""get a clue""............K&T
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Bugman
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I am not all that keen on the generator noise either but you just can't beat it for long term stays in remote areas. I often go into Agua Verde for 6
or 7 days at a time and a block of ice just won't last that long. I have an Engel 45qt fridge/freezer that I take with me and can run it off the car
when driving or off the electricity when in town. It works great for that but when camping I will fire up my Honda EU 1000 and make sure it is on the
eco setting. This way it is very quiet and you honestly can't hear it over the ocean noise until you are in camp. We run it off and on during the
day and then have it on in the evening while we cook dinner, but by 9:00 or 10:00 at the latest we shut everything down and don't turn it on again
until mid morning. The Engel holds the temp well overnight so there is no need to run the generator for it until it heats up again around mid
morning. For a week long stay I only need to use about 2-3 gallons of gas. Works for me......... 
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edm1
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Wish we could KISS with battery power! Simple means inexpensive in the short term, unfortunately, and more expensive in the long term. Batteries are
the most often replaced consumable and they are fairly expensive. Simple charge controllers, inverters and combiners, unfortunately will not take good
care of the batteries. Been there, done that. Now i'm doing the reverse of simple on my RV, where the accessories, monitors, and cabling cost more
than the battery bank (of 6 batteries, 660AH) and solar panels (450W total). When you eliminate the guesswork, you know your power system is
performing optimally.
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David K
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Hi Art... Please do a report on your system... because you do it right!
Happy New Year to you and your family!
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Hook
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| Quote: | Originally posted by edm1
Wish we could KISS with battery power! Simple means inexpensive in the short term, unfortunately, and more expensive in the long term. Batteries are
the most often replaced consumable and they are fairly expensive. Simple charge controllers, inverters and combiners, unfortunately will not take good
care of the batteries. Been there, done that. Now i'm doing the reverse of simple on my RV, where the accessories, monitors, and cabling cost more
than the battery bank (of 6 batteries, 660AH) and solar panels (450W total). When you eliminate the guesswork, you know your power system is
performing optimally.
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There are only a few things that will reduce the life of a battery beyond it's expected capacity. Two of them you can control; overdrawing a battery
or re-charging it at too slow or fast a rate, where it either sulfates prematurely or "gasses".
The third is heat. It's difficult to do much about that in a hot climate. Batteries last longer in cooler climates, as long as they dont freeze.
You really need to have charge controllers and batter chargers that match the charging requirements specified by your battery manufacturer. There are
still many "smart" chargers out there that want to float at 13.5-13.7. That will cause gassing in many AGMs.
Many AGM battery mfgrs recommend NOT floating an AGM at all. Just fully charge it and let it do it's minimal reduction in voltage while it is being
stored. Then, fully charge it again when it hits 12.5 or so.
This is true about AGMs, anyway.
Oh, there are other odd failures like physical shock disrupting a cell. But not that common.
The guy I bought my Lifeline from told me that he has had some guys who live in the Pacific NW near the coast (where it almost never freezes but also
never gets very hot) have gotten 10 years out of a Lifeline AGM.
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monoloco
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The nice thing about AGM's is that they have a very low self-discharge rate so they are less likely to be ruined by putting them away and forgetting
about them between camping trips.
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