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BajaBlanca
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Posts: 13196
Registered: 10-28-2008
Location: La Bocana, BCS
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someone get a local to give us the scoop. what is it ? Now you all have me all confused. or maybe the bees finally got to me.
I like toneart's idea ...whoever whatever whichever .. that works too.
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David K
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Posts: 64852
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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The locals or 'old timers' often do not know, as many of these names came from long before them... often by the Spanish explorers. Other times, the
spelling means little, as the old timers may be illiterate or possibly don't care. Life is too short for some to get too concerned when it doesn't
change if the fish will bite the hook the next day!
Rancho Santa Ynez may be a good example... The owners (Josefina and Fred) said YNEZ is correct. Technically, it should be INES and most maps have it
that way. Then you add the gringo factor and you get all combinations: Inez, Innes, Innez, Ynes, etc. It all 'sounds' the same, and we all know where
we are talking about... eventually. So, life goes on.
Puertecitos is just odd for most, as it would seem 'little ports' should be Puerto-citos, but there is a Spanish language reason it has an e instead
of an o when made plural.
The same problem comes when you ask 'locals' about history of a mission in their village... Unless they read original mission texts as done by
researchers, they only know what they were told. If you go to Santa Gertrudis and read one of the information signs there you get a pretty wild bit of
false history.... that is over 20 years off and names the wrong Padre as the founder. Mexican maps and books also repeat mis-information, sadly.
So, my interest is correct place spelling is a matter of historic accuracy and even I bend to popular trends... like calling both bays 'Gonzaga' when
it was the smaller harbor between Papa Fernandez' and Alfonsina's that was the original Bahia San Luis Gonzaga. The bigger bay from Alfornsina's to
Punta Final is actually 'Ensenada de San Francisquito'... That is just such a mouth-full, I can't fault anyone for calling it 'Gonzaga Bay', as
well... I do it too! LOL
[Edited on 2-23-2013 by David K]
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BajaBlanca
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Posts: 13196
Registered: 10-28-2008
Location: La Bocana, BCS
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well said.
and check this out:
http://www.fronterasdesk.org/news/2012/feb/10/day-2-why-dont...
[Edited on 2-23-2013 by BajaBlanca]
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mtgoat666
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Posts: 18383
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
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Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
The locals or 'old timers' often do not know, as many of these names came from long before them... often by the Spanish explorers. Other times, the
spelling means little, as the old timers may be illiterate or possibly don't care. Life is too short for some to get too concerned when it doesn't
change if the fish will bite the hook the next day!
Rancho Santa Ynez may be a good example... The owners (Josefina and Fred) said YNEZ is correct. Technically, it should be INES and most maps have it
that way. Then you add the gringo factor and you get all combinations: Inez, Innes, Innez, Ynes, etc. It all 'sounds' the same, and we all know where
we are talking about... eventually. So, life goes on.
Puertecitos is just odd for most, as it would seem 'little ports' should be Puerto-citos, but there is a Spanish language reason it has an e instead
of an o when made plural.
The same problem comes when you ask 'locals' about history of a mission in their village... Unless they read original mission texts as done by
researchers, they only know what they were told. If you go to Santa Gertrudis and read one of the information signs there you get a pretty wild bit of
false history.... that is over 20 years off and names the wrong Padre as the founder. Mexican maps and books also repeat mis-information, sadly.
So, my interest is correct place spelling is a matter of historic accuracy...
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pretty soon mexico will have to look to gringos for lessons about their own history, eh? 
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64852
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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That's a nice article Blanca... and the locals were correct about the marina filling with sand!
Well, I think it's about time for a little cerveza (or a lot)!
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Skipjack Joe
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Posts: 8084
Registered: 7-12-2004
Location: Bahia Asuncion
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| Quote: | Originally posted by mtgoat666
| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
That is correct... INEGI and other government agencies have it wrong. |
Why don't you ask the locals? The old timers. |
Because they can't read or write. 
Actually that was kinda mean. Sorry.
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chuckie
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Posts: 6082
Registered: 2-20-2012
Location: Kansas Prairies
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Why do we care? Its Baja, Que no? Sometimes after about 6, I cant spell my own name (dont ask 6 whats)
[Edited on 2-23-2013 by chuckie]
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UnoMas
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Posts: 328
Registered: 2-8-2008
Location: East Cape
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Mood: Great
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Like the town La Rivera which the highway sign read until after one of the hurricanes and was replaced with a new one reading La Ribera. Guess they
got tired of the gringos pronouncing it wrong.
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DianaT
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Posts: 10020
Registered: 12-17-2004
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
The locals or 'old timers' often do not know, as many of these names came from long before them... often by the Spanish explorers. Other times, the
spelling means little, as the old timers may be illiterate or possibly don't care. Life is too short for some to get too concerned when it doesn't
change if the fish will bite the hook the next day!
Rancho Santa Ynez may be a good example... The owners (Josefina and Fred) said YNEZ is correct. Technically, it should be INES and most maps have it
that way. Then you add the gringo factor and you get all combinations: Inez, Innes, Innez, Ynes, etc. It all 'sounds' the same, and we all know where
we are talking about... eventually. So, life goes on.
Puertecitos is just odd for most, as it would seem 'little ports' should be Puerto-citos, but there is a Spanish language reason it has an e instead
of an o when made plural.
The same problem comes when you ask 'locals' about history of a mission in their village... Unless they read original mission texts as done by
researchers, they only know what they were told. If you go to Santa Gertrudis and read one of the information signs there you get a pretty wild bit of
false history.... that is over 20 years off and names the wrong Padre as the founder. Mexican maps and books also repeat mis-information, sadly.
So, my interest is correct place spelling is a matter of historic accuracy and even I bend to popular trends... like calling both bays 'Gonzaga' when
it was the smaller harbor between Papa Fernandez' and Alfonsina's that was the original Bahia San Luis Gonzaga. The bigger bay from Alfornsina's to
Punta Final is actually 'Ensenada de San Francisquito'... That is just such a mouth-full, I can't fault anyone for calling it 'Gonzaga Bay', as
well... I do it too! LOL
[Edited on 2-23-2013 by David K] |
You couldn't be any more demeaning toward the local populations than in your first paragraph. Perhaps if you knew more of them and lived among them,
you might become educated about who they are.
And just how many "original" "primary" sources have you read about the history of Mexico in the original Spanish or how many primary sources crated by
the original peoples of Mexico have you studied? Oh, that it right, you have only read the work of others and their interpretations. Yes, several
are quite well known and good researchers, but ALL researchers bring a bias to their interpretations. So are you absolutely such the Mexican
history books got it wrong or was it another researcher's bias.
You wrote a nice little tour guide based on the work of others. Nothing wrong with that as long as you are realistic about your information -- the
interpretations, opinions, and bias of others. Most tour guides are written that way. I wish you luck with your tour guide and hope you sell a lot of
them.
[Edited on 2-24-2013 by DianaT]
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DianaT
Select Nomad
Posts: 10020
Registered: 12-17-2004
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
| Quote: | Originally posted by mtgoat666
| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
That is correct... INEGI and other government agencies have it wrong. |
Why don't you ask the locals? The old timers. |
Because they can't read or write.
Actually that was kinda mean. Sorry. |
You might be surprised how many of the old timers who do not have a formal education are self-taught and care a lot about the history of their area
and their country ---- and the politics.
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64852
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DianaT
| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
The locals or 'old timers' often do not know, as many of these names came from long before them... often by the Spanish explorers. Other times, the
spelling means little, as the old timers may be illiterate or possibly don't care. Life is too short for some to get too concerned when it doesn't
change if the fish will bite the hook the next day!
Rancho Santa Ynez may be a good example... The owners (Josefina and Fred) said YNEZ is correct. Technically, it should be INES and most maps have it
that way. Then you add the gringo factor and you get all combinations: Inez, Innes, Innez, Ynes, etc. It all 'sounds' the same, and we all know where
we are talking about... eventually. So, life goes on.
Puertecitos is just odd for most, as it would seem 'little ports' should be Puerto-citos, but there is a Spanish language reason it has an e instead
of an o when made plural.
The same problem comes when you ask 'locals' about history of a mission in their village... Unless they read original mission texts as done by
researchers, they only know what they were told. If you go to Santa Gertrudis and read one of the information signs there you get a pretty wild bit of
false history.... that is over 20 years off and names the wrong Padre as the founder. Mexican maps and books also repeat mis-information, sadly.
So, my interest is correct place spelling is a matter of historic accuracy and even I bend to popular trends... like calling both bays 'Gonzaga' when
it was the smaller harbor between Papa Fernandez' and Alfonsina's that was the original Bahia San Luis Gonzaga. The bigger bay from Alfornsina's to
Punta Final is actually 'Ensenada de San Francisquito'... That is just such a mouth-full, I can't fault anyone for calling it 'Gonzaga Bay', as
well... I do it too! LOL
[Edited on 2-23-2013 by David K] |
You couldn't be any more demeaning toward the local populations than in your first paragraph. Perhaps if you knew more of them and lived among them,
you might become educated about who they are.
And just how many "original" "primary" sources have you read about the history of Mexico in the
original Spanish or how many primary sources crated by the original peoples of Mexico have you studied? Oh, that it right, you have only read the
work of others and their interpretations. Yes, several are quite well known and good researchers, but ALL researchers bring a bias to their
interpretations. So are you absolutely such the Mexican history books got it wrong or was it another researcher's bias.
You wrote a nice little tour guide based on the work of others. Nothing wrong with that as long as you are realistic about your information -- the
interpretations, opinions, and bias of others. Most tour guides are written that way. I wish you luck with your tour guide and hope you sell a lot of
them.
[Edited on 2-24-2013 by DianaT] |
Tour guide??? What are you talking about?
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