Originally posted by Pescador
When I was growing up it was still possible to have a conversation with someone who had a different political opinion or a different way of looking at
the world. We maintained a certain respect for each other even though our perceptions of the world were miles apart. Sadly, that has gone downhill
and now it is ok for someone to ram boats and act like an idiot because he is doing what some consider to be a right thing. I would suggest that the
only difference between Paul's actions and a street mob or serial killer is the fact that he has some backers who are willing to turn the other eye
and encourage him in his non-social behavior because they somehow believe in the cause.
I certainly do not remember Jacque Cousteau using the same tactics and bullying but he was a much more effective agent for change.
So, somewhere along the line the bullying became acceptable for those who espoused a certain idea or philosophy. But this is a really one sided
affair for if a conservative were to start that kind of bullying , he would be crucified before the sun went down.
Well said Pescador... Long live the memory of Jacque! As a kid I remember a motion picture my parents took me to see (mid or early 1960's) called
something like "World without Sun" (?) staring the inventor of SCUBA, himself! Motivating to learn by seeing what is there!
Watson and SS is out there ACTING upon their convictions (and enforcing international law that no one else will enforce) rather than sitting on his
butt blogging about what "someone (else) ought to do".
Some here are (justifiably) touched by freeing an ensnared whale from a net, etc., so you / they believe whales deserve to live and deserve our
help....
So does Watson, and his means are necessarily EQUAL to the evil, high-tech, illegal slaughter by the Japanese whalers.
Research...? My ass!
"Respect?" "Non-social behavior?" "Bullying?" "Means don't justify the end?"
Surely you are referring to the Japanese corporate whalers and their Illegal heartless slaughter of whales for $$$$.
Arm chair quarterbacking and blahblah blogging doesn't change ANYthing. Watson has a deep conviction and WALKS his talk.
As motoged said... Watson is at war with whalers - his war is as nice as the bloody slaughter of whales,
although
the biggest difference is that all of the murder, death, killing is being done by the Japanese whalers.
I have a Japanese amigo living back in Japan again and she sends $ to Watson and speaks out against Japan's tacit condoning of the continuing
slaughter.
Conscience and ACTION.
Its all just stuff and some numbers.
A day spent sailing isn\'t deducted from one\'s life.
Peace, Love, and Music
Don't get me wrong... I do watch Whale Wars (when it was on TV)... and I don't agree with killing whales or dolphins... but Watson is a buffoon and is
suckered a bunch of rich TV and movie stars out of their money for little or no progress. Didn't that Australian guy have a lot to say after Watson
instructed him to 'let' the Japanese ship crush his customized interceptor boat for the publicity? If that money spent by Bob Barker and others went
to a campaign of educational films (specially in Japan) about whales and their beauty/ intelligence, etc. I think it would actually eliminate the
desire for whale meat/ oil, etc. "research" lol! Watson and the hippies have not stopped the desire to get more whales... Time to change strategies
and stop getting paid to fail.
Originally posted by willardguy
I think we all would be safer if this nutbag were behind bars!
His actions are far better than Japanese murdering whales.
His actions are noble.
One of us has an incorrect definition of "noble".
Amen, my point was that noble should apply to both sides of the spectrum. If this nutbag was "noble" he would find a "noble" way to go about his
business. Instead, he is going about his bullying by hiding behind the Apron of the liberal do-gooders who think any misdeed can somehow be justified
by the philosophical position.
Gahndi was respected and feared by both sides of the political spectrum, but always chose to take the high road. This loser feels any road is
justified.
I was a " Save the whales" guy back in highschool. Even did my big english term paper on it and went off Cape Cod for research.
Some may question his tactics. Some may not. But I admire the fact that he and his crew are willing to put it all on the line for their cause.
The simple fact is that we are all talking about it and that right there is progress toward getting this issue resolved one way or the other.
You can probably guess what side of this I am on.
Hell, I say go after the longline boats and purse sieners too!
Sink em all and let God sort it out!
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for." J. A. Shedd.
A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it. – Albert Einstein
However, there is no "truth" to the issue....but a lot of polarized opinions.
Such are beliefs
I would like to believe that not all "do-gooders" are liberal, and that some conservative thinkers might also want to "conserve" such things as
resources, humane values, and an effort to live balanced lives for ourselves and others.
The limited vision of rendering such topics to "left/right" or "liberal/conservative" thinking is only a polarizing dynamic that obscures options.
If this was a gun lobby conversation, I suppose PW could be seen as "having the right" (an invented concept at best) to uphold his convictions.
Attacking PW as a person is a different conversation than that of protecting whales. There are a lot of corporate executives that could readily be
identified as being psychopathic, but that diagnosis sidetracks the discussion of corporate responsibility and ethics/morality.
Very few hunters, for example, need to hunt for sustenance and survival in our western world....but they do it as a "sport". Giving the deer, etc
guns to defend themselves to make the "sport" a balanced activity is certainly not a realistic solution to that dilemma....so, at times, someone has
to step in and try to protect those less capable of defending themselves. Is this restricted to a "liberal" way of thinking?
If so, may the gods help us.
Direct action is not always pretty....but neither is life.
No, Motoged, I am not suggesting that this is a left-right conversation, but I do feel pretty strong about what I refer to as "situational ethics",
where one uses a current philosphy or way of thinking to justify a particuar action. PETA is perhaps the best example of that type of thinking where
they are so convinced in their way of thinking that they feel justified throwing red paint on expensive fur jackets. Unless you subscribe to the Saul
Alinsky methods of social change, this is unjustified action.
I happen to believe strongly in the preservation of whales but I can not bring myself to condone thuggery, bullying, and outright anti-social
behavior to accomplish those goals anymore than I think it is righteous to rob a bank to feed your family. Both are lofty goals, but the behavior in
both cases stinks.
Because of wacko groups like PETA, Earth First, Paul Watson, Occupy Wall Street, etc., etc., it has almost become cool to be a rebel, throw civilized
rules to the wind, and go on one's little escapade of terror because you believe strongly in something. The logical conclusion of that thought
process is, "it's OK to be a kook, act like a kook, destroy things like a kook, as long as you believe in the right things but who knows who defines
the "right things".
Originally posted by Pescador
Because of wacko groups like PETA, Earth First, Paul Watson, Occupy Wall Street, etc., etc., it has almost become cool to be a rebel, throw civilized
rules to the wind,
it's been "cool" for the entire history of man. some people see a need to shake things up to make a change, and some people are accepting of wrongs
and talk-talk that goes no where.
people in power, and those uncomfortable with change, try to maintain power or stability by squashing voices and actions of dissent.
Originally posted by Pescador
Because of wacko groups like PETA, Earth First, Paul Watson, Occupy Wall Street, etc., etc., it has almost become cool to be a rebel, throw civilized
rules to the wind,
it's been "cool" for the entire history of man. some people see a need to shake things up to make a change, and some people are accepting of wrongs
and talk-talk that goes no where.
people in power, and those uncomfortable with change, try to maintain power or stability by squashing voices and actions of dissent.
[Edited on 3-1-2013 by mtgoat666]
I think goat might be on to something! nope, make that ON something
So who are really the kooks here? When the Japanese flagrantly abuse the "research" thing to make a profit by unnecessarily slaughtering whales then
what are the "rules" here. They are flat out lying.
They justify it because it's part of their "culture" Complete Bull manure!
They justify overfishing and stealing fish from other countries' waters and justify it because it's part of their "culture". Complete Horse manure!
Someone has to stand up and say ENOUGH!
These whales and these fish belong to the WORLD. Not to Japan. And we have a right to say "Don't kill my whales" or "Don't over fish the Bluefin" etc.
The world's history is full of examples were greedy people plundered and wiped out species.
I'll bet you didn't know that there is a species of Atlantic Grey Whales. You want to know why you don't know. Because they are extinct from whaling.
Everyone laments the overfishing of the oceans. But who has the stones to stand up and do something about it?
I just moved to Washington state recently. I came up here for The Boeing Company. I didn't come up here to fish. But I started to get a little
interested in the Salmon. But I soon realized that fishing for them is a bit futile. You want to know why. Because there aren't any left to speak of.
A few here and there.
But at one time the place was literally clogged with them. They were nearly wiped out by pure greed and it may be too late to bring them back.
So yes. Paul and his crew are a bunch of radical pirates. But that may be the only thing on this planet that is going to work.
Anybody know the address where I can send some money to his defense fund?
[Edited on 3-2-2013 by fishbuck]
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for." J. A. Shedd.
A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it. – Albert Einstein
I agree with Goat and fishbuck, at least as far as the states of both our culture and fish in Puget Sound.
I think that as things stand, anyone taking a reasoned and balanced approach to effecting change is lost in the shouts of radicals voices. An extreme
position is going to get the media, and political attention. Anyone else is going to be ignored.
As goat said, we have aways had extreme voices shouting from one side or the other. The difference now is that we no longer have a limited media who
tempers these extreme voices. They have direct access to the public via the internet. And we have virtually unlimited choices for our news sources, so
we can narrow our source to match each of our prejudices.
I don't think that helps us to find common ground, instead we're just more confirmed in our radicalism.
Watson's techniques have worked, and made him a pretty wealthy guy in the process. That doesn't mean that I have to celebrate his approach.
Someone above asked why no one has made any alternate suggestions on how to end the whale harvest.
My alternative suggestions are:
A.) Petition the US government and ask them to consider bringing political and economic presure against Japan to stop commercial whaling.
B.) Organize boycotts of Japanese goods as a protest.
C.) Write to the American UN Ambasador and ask that the UN be called on to tighten the definitions of "Scientific Research", thus closing the loophole
that Japan is using to justify their activites.
I admit that taking a longer road is less satisfying, but it will result in longer lasting change than will a more radical approach.
"If it were lush and rich, one could understand the pull, but it is fierce and hostile and sullen.
The stone mountains pile up to the sky and there is little fresh water. But we know we must go back
if we live, and we don't know why." - Steinbeck, Log from the Sea of Cortez
"People don't care how much you know, until they know how much you care." - Theodore Roosevelt
"You can easily judge the character of others by how they treat those who they think can do nothing for them or to them." - Malcolm Forbes
"Let others lead small lives, but not you. Let others argue over small things, but not you. Let others
cry over small hurts, but not you. Let others leave their future in someone else's hands, but not you." - Jim Rohn
"The best way to get the right answer on the internet is not to ask a question; it's to post the wrong answer." - Cunningham's Law
Thankyou to Baja Bound
Mexico InsuranceServices for your long-term support of the BajaNomad.com Forums site.
Emergency Baja Contacts Include:
Desert Hawks;
El Rosario-based ambulance transport; Emergency #: (616) 103-0262
![[*]](images/xmbforum/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
