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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
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Location: Punta Banda
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| Quote: | Originally posted by danaeb
I can't count how many times I've read posts on this forum about Nomads bypassing the FMM tourist visa process because "I've never been asked to show
it" or exhibiting a general ignorance of the Mexican visa requirements. It would be interesting to know how many Americans are living in, or visiting
Mexico "illegally". |
That's a whole other can of worms and a "Red Herring" of trophy proportions.
Firstly....I don't see that many displays of arrogance or outright stupidity on this board. There are a few....yes, but by and large, the majority of
posters on Nomad are in full compliance with the regs.
Add to that, many visitors to Mexico arn't required to get a Visa, due to their time in country and destination.
The requirments of our two countrys are different.
You do, however have a valid question as to the US illegals living in Mexico. In the border regions, there are many. I know many.
It's up to Mexico to clean it up, but they seem disinterested. That too may be changeing.
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DianaT
1. When I was an undocumented worker I am sure glad no one thought of me as an "illegal" person --- especially my students.
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I guess this means you were the profesora of mind reading. 
Sorry I got nasty with you up there, Diane. Was that the first time? 
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DianaT
Select Nomad
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Registered: 12-17-2004
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
| Quote: | Originally posted by DianaT
1. When I was an undocumented worker I am sure glad no one thought of me as an "illegal" person --- especially my students.
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I guess this means you were the profesora of mind reading.
Sorry I got nasty with you up there, Diane. Was that the first time?
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Oh my, maybe they all thought of me as an illegal person! Yikes! Actually, they were very used to teachers who were undocumented. At least they
treated me like I was a real legal person.
First time? No, and it probably won't be the last, but that is OK. Stuart Smalley would think we are OK.
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Cisco
Ultra Nomad
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
And then there are the Palestinians living under horrid conditions on the Left Bank. I don't hear much anger over their loss of human rights. Again,
Why?
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http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=66576
This is on OT and there are some rather toxic remarks. Be aware.
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Islandbuilder
Senior Nomad
Posts: 555
Registered: 11-9-2011
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Mood: bewildered
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The initial post quotes an article that builds the largest strawman since Burning Man.
It's fine to discuss the concept of the relationships between words, ideas and actions.
It is not fine to project the writters own obvious prejudices.
An all too typical irony to condemn a way of thinking by engaging in that same way of thinking.
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Ateo
Elite Nomad
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Registered: 7-18-2011
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| Quote: | Originally posted by danaeb
I can't count how many times I've read posts on this forum about Nomads bypassing the FMM tourist visa process because "I've never been asked to show
it" or exhibiting a general ignorance of the Mexican visa requirements. It would be interesting to know how many Americans are living in, or visiting
Mexico "illegally". |
I've been illegal in Mexico many times. I'm being honest.
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dtbushpilot
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3290
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Location: Buena Vista BCS
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Mood: Tranquilo
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What islandbuilder said X2
"Life is tough".....It's even tougher if you're stupid.....
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DianaT
Select Nomad
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Registered: 12-17-2004
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Islandbuilder
The initial post quotes an article that builds the largest strawman since Burning Man.
It's fine to discuss the concept of the relationships between words, ideas and actions.
It is not fine to project the writters own obvious prejudices.
An all too typical irony to condemn a way of thinking by engaging in that same way of thinking. |
Only condemning bigotry.
Opps, time to go away for real! Bigotry is a concept that is not defined the same by some and simply not recognized by some for what it is.
[Edited on 4-7-2013 by DianaT]
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Islandbuilder
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Bigotry is defined in political settings as being what your opponent believes while you yourself are just being objective.
ALL of our excretia is odiferous, not just that of those with whom we disagree.
And Diana, when you were working in a foreign country without the proper visa, you were just an illegal alien, not an illegal person.
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woody with a view
PITA Nomad
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Location: Looking at the Coronado Islands
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my ancestors were hot on the heels of the boats that landed at Plymouth Rock. There is statue to my ancestors at Alderson Square near London i think.
they settled in WVirginia. so what? there were no laws regarding immigration back then and to compare times is disingenous (sp?) to say the least.
when is Mexico going to open its borders and allow me the same liberties that they expect in my country? i go to Baja, usually get the FMM, spend a
bunch of money AND THEN GO HOME!
Big difference!
[Edited on 4-7-2013 by woody with a view]
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durrelllrobert
Elite Nomad
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Location: Punta Banda BC
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Mood: thriving in Baja
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Illegal Aliens?
I always thought that they were just 21st century explorers trying to find the promised land.
Bob Durrell
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
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Registered: 9-2-2006
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| Quote: | Originally posted by woody with a view
I go to Baja, usually get the FMM, spend a bunch of money AND THEN GO HOME!
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Now...before someone decides to make an example of Woody for the above statement concerning his inconsistancy with Inmigración, I happen to know he,
at times, surfs in the "Free Zone" where a foreigner is allowed for a certain amount of time without a visa.
[they were sharpening their teeth, getting ready to attack, Woody. I could feel it. ]
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Alan
Super Nomad
Posts: 1626
Registered: 4-6-2005
Location: Yucaipa, CA/La Paz
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| Quote: | Originally posted by danaeb
I can't count how many times I've read posts on this forum about Nomads bypassing the FMM tourist visa process because "I've never been asked to show
it" or exhibiting a general ignorance of the Mexican visa requirements. It would be interesting to know how many Americans are living in, or visiting
Mexico "illegally". |
It would also be interesting to know how Mexico deals with those that they find here
illegally.
In Memory of E-57
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Skipjack Joe
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8084
Registered: 7-12-2004
Location: Bahia Asuncion
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Illegal Immigrant
| Quote: | Originally posted by Cisco
Apr 5, 2013
By David Sirota
Instead, the word is exclusively used to denigrate Latinos who entered the country without authorization. Coincidence?
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Entering the country without authorization is not the same as illegal?
The very definition of illegal is an act without authorization.
Diane,
I agree with you that some words are/were harmful to people and should be changed. The illness Downs Syndrome was called Mongolism in my day and it
really was offensive because it implied that all people from Mongolia are half wits, er I mean mentally impaired.
However in this case you are simply using the very definition of the word for the act. There is no labeling.
On the other hand perhaps I'm not the best judge in these matters. Prisons are now called correctional facilities. I suppose somebody felt that the
inmates rights were being violated and we redefined the term. And many must've agreed because that's how it now stands.
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Alan
Super Nomad
Posts: 1626
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Location: Yucaipa, CA/La Paz
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DianaT
[ Changing negative labels can change images; images that need change. We no longer label children born out of wedlock as illegitimate. That label
was a powerful statement of what others thought about those children. |
I at least thought "illegitimate"
sounded better than to keep calling them "bastards" as they were considered when I was young.
In Memory of E-57
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Islandbuilder
Senior Nomad
Posts: 555
Registered: 11-9-2011
Location: nob
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Mood: bewildered
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"Remember, we're all winners here. No winners. No loosers. To try is to win. Grades aren't reflective of effort. Job promotion will be based on tenure
not results"
All good feeling ideas with no practical application in the real world.
Once the effects of the pill wears off it's pretty easy to see.
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Alan
It would also be interesting to know how Mexico deals with those that they find here illegally. |
They deported me because someone, a well placed local garbage pail, wanted me out and "sin papeles" was the only reason they could find.
That's how they deal with it.
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Ateo
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5901
Registered: 7-18-2011
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
Ateo,
I wasn't trying to say that the 'illegitimate child' label was right or wrong. I was simply trying to support Dennis claim that there are ulterior
motives here. That is, ulterior to bigotry.
The racism and human rights card is so often used by nations and civic groups to get something that has nothing to do with equality or goodness. Here
it is again it seems to me.
Do you remember how upset we got over the human rights issues in Soviet Union. Oh, such a violation of the Helsinki Agreement. Well, the Soviet Union
is no more and our government is no longer worried about human rights issues in Russia. Why?
And then there are the Palestinians living under horrid conditions on the Left Bank. I don't hear much anger over their loss of human rights. Again,
Why?
Whenever there is a goal to achieve racism is a very handy tool to use to get it.
I'm not saying that it's not right to call them Illegal aliens..... Actually, I am saying that they should be called that. If a criminal is a criminal
why would I want to stop calling him that and not hurt his feeling. Become legal and you won't be call illegal. What's wrong with that?
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Thanks for the nice thought out response. I guess we will have to agree to disagree. I hate that phrase, but it applies here. =)
Your last few sentences I agree with. I think there should be a quicker process for these people residing and working within the USA to become legal.
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
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Location: Punta Banda
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If the disingenuous faction that wants to do away with the word, illegal, would offer a viable alternative, I'd openly listen to their reasoning, but
this feigned offense to the word alone is not enough.
Next, we would be scolded for using the word, "Alien."
"These are human beings, not Martians."
There would be no end to it.
Brings to mind another New Speak effort by the US bashers...the use of the word, "American" when refering to citizens of the USA.
"Now wait just a minuto, white boy.......we're all Americans so you can't make that reference to your citizenry."
Well....where does that leave us? It leaves us without a name with which to refer to ourselves.
"I'm a United States of America person." See?? It doesn't work.
"I AM AN AMERICAN." That works.
Besides, call a Mexican an American and see how it works for you. You'll wish you hadn't said that.
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Ateo
Your last few sentences I agree with. I think there should be a quicker process for these people residing and working within the USA to become legal.
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That's right. Change the law, not the language.
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