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estrella de mar
Newbie
Posts: 14
Registered: 11-16-2003
Location: Rio Colorado
Member Is Offline
Mood: spicy!
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better life
could we say that the develpoment in CSL has brought a better life to everyone there? have all the spring breakers, tourists, and sport fisherpersons
added to the quality of life for local residents? has all the sewage, trash and noise beautified the land and sea? i don't think it is development
per se that is wrong. i just think the way it is currently planned (at least in Mexico where there is less oversight) takes no consideration for the
unique ecology of the land and sea, nor does it consider the affects on locals. there is an assumption that work is good--that it leads to a better
life. does working 40 or 50 hours a week cleaning homes mean a better life? what kind of wages are being offered? are there health benefits? is
over time paid? i suspect that most of the gringos interested in these high-end developments care very little about these things and care even less
about convservation ecology. to respond to Captain Mike's observation about 'enviro-N-zis,' i would say that perhaps there are those types out there,
but there are also level headed individuals who are working not to stop development in its tracks but to begin a new era of integrating ecological
(read: humanitarian) concepts into every development plan that could potentially alter the local ecology and way of life. (By the way, I like Captain
Mike and have flown with Screaming Airlines  ).
like an earlier poster noted, i am not here to bash other posters as i think we all share a love for Baja California and i respect all of you.
though i am new here i appreciate this forum and the issues and ideas shared here. !gracias!
estrella de mar 
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Ski Baja
Senior Nomad
Posts: 652
Registered: 8-19-2003
Location: Rosarito Beach
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Low blows
Jerry, not sure where you get the idea of my statements being low blows. I have friends that have lived in Bahia de los Angeles their entire lives.
And if you can believe this, they are actually Mexicans. Not the new Gringo community that seems to think they belong there because they have a
vacation home or know some peoples names there.
My friends there have told me that Crystal Meth has become a major problem there. Just like in the States. Now, I wonder why that would be. Mexican
Mafia trying to get all the fishermen hooked because they have so much money ? I don't think so.
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Skeet/Loreto
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4709
Registered: 9-2-2003
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Estella:Thank you for a good Post.
I had the unique pleasure of being in and around Loreto since 1968.
When I first arrived there was a Generator and no Sewage System,water was in short supply. Most of the Shacks and houses had Septic or at least large
Hole for Sewage.
As more fisherman came to Loreto money was spent on Trash Barrells bought by Senora Gloria Davis.,To my knowledge there was only one Sewer Problem and
that was the Mission Hotel{And still would be if it was open}
As money came in from the building of the El Presidente a Sewer System was installed.It did not have a treatment Plant, only a large Pond North of
Loreto where the sewage flowed down to the Malacon and then was pumped to the Pond. It was a Diaster until the Treatment plant was finally
built,Streets where paved{concrete} andElectrical came from La PaZ
As I watched this process occur I was amazed that the Poor People of Loreto could keep their water much cleaner that the canadians at the Bay at
Victoria !!!!
The mexican People do a fair Job when they have to!But as you are aware Mananna is more inportant.
With out getting into the discussion of wherther "Work" is good or not. It is necessary to Work or live off of your family and that is not a very
respectful position in Loreto! Now as to Health Insurance. The people pay about $16.oo a year for coverage which from my knowledge of being in the
Hospitals in Constitution it is good Medical.
In one of my Post on another thread I indicated that a new and bigger Hospital is needed in Loreto/Nopolo.
If this project goes as they hope it will also be necessary for additional Schools.
Watching the Govt. operate all these years I feel that the Hospital and the School problem will be taken care of in Time.
Now the relationship of being a cleaning women is not so bad when you have had no work and desire to better yourself and your family. This work ethic
is displayed in the millions of Mexicano's going to the USA and doing all kinds of jobs that Americans will not do.
So I am not sure you are really thinking about the People.
As far as the Envior=nuts they are already in Loreto and the Mexican officials have learned if they pay Lip Servce to them that they will get money.So
I think that there is enough evidence to show that the Water will not be damaged.
The biggest problem will be Water for Drinking,Golf course etc. I do not beleive it will ever have enough to support a development of that size.
In my book Loreto and its people are the most valuable Asset !!They are somewhat different than the Mainland People.especially the ones from the
Mountains..
I will await a time witt Pateince to see if the Developers can Deliver.Who Knows!!
"The Shadow Do!"
Skeet/Loreto
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Ski Baja
Senior Nomad
Posts: 652
Registered: 8-19-2003
Location: Rosarito Beach
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Gato,
actually what they said was that the Gringos bring a higher quality of meth than they can get down there as a rule. Personally, I can't stand that
dung and what it does to people. I've lost many friends to Crystal Meth and it isn't very pretty to watch them disintegrate, no matter where you are.
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elgatoloco
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4332
Registered: 11-19-2002
Location: Yes
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Ski Baja
actually what they said was that the Gringos bring a higher quality of meth than they can get down there as a rule. Personally, I can't stand that
dung and what it does to people. I've lost many friends to Crystal Meth and it isn't very pretty to watch them disintegrate, no matter where you are.
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Sad, very sad. It is true that it is a VERY bad drug. I have known of some whose lives have been destroyed as well. Shame.
MAGA
Making Attorneys Get Attorneys
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estrella de mar
Newbie
Posts: 14
Registered: 11-16-2003
Location: Rio Colorado
Member Is Offline
Mood: spicy!
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viva la gente
skeet~
thank you for your insightful and informative reply. you made some points i didn't consider... i hope it all works out well too!
estrella de mar
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Skeet/Loreto
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4709
Registered: 9-2-2003
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P;ease keep posting I like your Style'Estrella del Mar". Skeet.Loreto
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Phil S
Super Nomad
Posts: 1205
Registered: 10-28-2003
Member Is Offline
Mood: After 34 years. Still in love w/ my wife
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Loreto Bay development
Ski Baja. I hope your comment of "you have lost many friends to Crystal Meth" doesn't reflect on who you associate with. I've never lost any friend
to any kind of drug. Maybe thats because I choose friends who make "good choices" in their lives. It's the decisions we make that decide our
futures. I'm not one of those "rich ones" you refer to, but was able to make right judgements regarding savings, and was able to start coming down
here about eleven years ago. Three years ago, I chose to buy in Nopolo (Loreto Bay) because it was a small community close to Loreto, minus, Roosters,
packs of barking dogs, overturning garbage cans, fighting, all hours of the night, Mexican cars that "hawk" their wares by honking their horns during
the day, and the cars that drive around the neighborhoods with loud speakers on the roof that are tape recorded "news of the day" or events coming up.
Loreto lacks a newspaper, and this one I guess is acceptable to all. Nopolo/Loreto Bay is not a gated community as you (geez I hope it was you) that
made that comment. Nor do I expect it to be in the future. We all have our reasons for being down here. How come you only stopped at your community,
rather than choosing further south? Personal choice? I guess we all have personal choices, for whatever reasons, huh???? I grew up in Oregon. I
watched my small community become Californicated!!!!!!!(and not intended to be a slam word) Next thing I knew, guess who became the most verbal about
"come up and visit, but GO HOME!!!!! You got it. The Californians who moved up and "got their piece of heaven) but didn't want anyone else to have
it. Maybe Ski Baja, some of them might have been relatives of yours!!! And that is how any area grows. Population expansion produces needs to
"spread out", and some go as far as other states. Some, like yourself have chosen to go to Baja. Isn't it great that we have that freedom of
movement? Even into other countries. More power to Canada if they have the money to come down here and do some developing. I'd say, they gave
Fonatur as Pam says, 25 years to do something with Nopolo, and since they didn't, they have a vision (profits yes, and what the hell, isn't that what
greases the squeaky axle of economy??? anyway???) I respect your ideals you provide on this website, but I've noticed that it looks like your a little
outnumbered on your views and how they should be accepted. But it is your view & opinion. I'd like to knew if you have gone to Loreto Bays website
and read about what their intentions are for down here. I can assure you that it will take some time to investigate their website, reading every
item, like I have done. I even felt it necessary to go to Scottsdale on the way down, and get "a feeling" of their operation, first hand. I like to
talk about something, when I have enought background to talk intelligently about it. You might have a different prospective, SKi Baja if you did so.
Let us know if you do, and how you feel about this after your read it all. And if you have read it already, I will still respect your opinion. Not
agree with it, but I'll respect it!!!! Annnnnnnnddddddddddddd, jerry. Your lot is being cleaned up, by someone. I can actually see your car for the
first time since I've been down here.
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Skeet/Loreto
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4709
Registered: 9-2-2003
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Phil: Thanks for a very informative Post!
Phil there are generally two kinds of People who go to Baja.
1Those with enough money to escape there Old digs and get away from themselves or others. This type of person usually builds a large house with a good
view and does not go outside except to Fish, Play Golf, or plant flowers. They are Happy doing their thing.
2. The second kind of person I guess is like me who Loves all those things that you mentioned about Loreto especially the Roosters!!Everything that
you get away from I seek!The people are still Lorretos Best Asset, the View is second.
I have no problems if the Canadains come to Loreto and create a New Town of Live ins who never know their neighbor and only know their Maid.That is
the right but somehow it does not set good with me.
One of the several reasons that my Wife and I decided to Leave Loreto was because of the kind of people moving in and trying to take control and do
everything "American Way" such as closing off the Beach so they would not have to look at the Poor Mexicano!!
I very much understand Pam's position as an American Fishing type operation in Mexicano Culture, I do not agree with that type of thing as in my
Heart I think that the Fisherman would be better off using a Mexicano fisherman without a GPS or Fish Finder to enable them to catch a Fish.Just a
personal note and belief nothing against Pam, She runs a good operation as well as Ty Miller.
I think that if more people would move to MiraMar they would learn about another Culture and they would better themselves!!
But you are right in that Money is the source of Progress.
Knowing How difficult it was to get water for the Golf course and the people of Loreto I realize that it may be 15 to 20 years before there is much
Building to be done.{ Except if we have a Terror Attack in L.A.}
When some of the very Large Homes were built in the past few years it was done with mostly Local Labor, now if it is done that way this time it will
help the people of Loreto which is my Choice. Skeet/Loreto
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Phil S
Super Nomad
Posts: 1205
Registered: 10-28-2003
Member Is Offline
Mood: After 34 years. Still in love w/ my wife
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Loreto at nights
Skeet. I agree with you 100%. All that is "living the Baja experience". Unfortunately for me, (you might call it shell shock syndrome) but I find it
almost impossible to sleep at nights due to those examples I cited, during the earlier years that I did live in Loreto. And because of a condition
that causes me to "climb the wall" or jump out of my socks, at abrupt loud noises (no it wasn't because of Viet Nam) I found my "piece of paradise" in
Nopolo/Loreto Bay. When I'm calm enough, my trips into Loreto are full of wonderful smells, sounds, and visions. For anyone who has not spent at
least a week walking around or driving around this area, you've missed the "hidden jewel" of Baja. It ranks 10+ (off the scale) for me and my family &
friends!!!!!
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Skeet/Loreto
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4709
Registered: 9-2-2003
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Phil. Another good place at nigth is just off the Road between Loreto and Nopolo. Trun at the Electrical Plant and go up on the first Mesa. at night.
Ask my heart doctor told me the other day a Good Glass og Red Wine should be Taken for the rest of my Life. .Enjoy Loreto you lucky Bum. Skeet/Loreto
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Phil S
Super Nomad
Posts: 1205
Registered: 10-28-2003
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Mood: After 34 years. Still in love w/ my wife
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"first mesa"
Are you referring to Primer Agua? I think I'd like to take a bottle of wine & some cheese and my "honey" and go up to the pool, and skinny dip &
enjoy the evening. But I think they lock the gate these days. Maybe not when you lived here. Then you might be talking about the views of night,
looking at the lights, and the islands off shore. I think I'll have to try that "mesa" Thanks Skeet
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Skeet/Loreto
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4709
Registered: 9-2-2003
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Phils: Ask around and ye shall fine the right person with the Keys. There are several copies around. Then you can go up on a Full moon for some good
skinny Dipping. I gave my Key away when I left but am sure you know How to find another. skeet/Loreto
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flyfishinPam
Super Nomad
Posts: 1727
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Loreto, BCS
Member Is Offline
Mood: gone fishin'
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Skeet man...
I can tell from your posts that you have not been in business here. Being in business causes you to have a different relationship with the people
here. And you are not informed of the responsibilities of someone who is in the position of being an employer, here or anywhere else in Mexico.
You also have no idea how my business operates. We are not an american fishing company using foreign guides and relying wholly on electronic
equipment. I am a broker of any local panguero or boatman who wishes more work. I pay these guys them the highest of any operator, and immediately
after services are rendered, and communicate with them. They love working for me and many seek my employment. I guess I'm a Mexcican fishing
operation who;s service is americanized. This, because it is americans who use our service- so it makes sense that we give the level of service that
is expected.
Phil I think that the mesa Skeet speaks of is at KM 115 there's a dirt road to the colonia, go up on top of the (I call it a hill) and take a look.
Nice. I am lucky enough to have a similar view just beyond Miramar where the roosters crow below me. I hate those megaphones and all the noise too.
And I think there's lots of noise here because folks don't know any different. Peace and quiet are things we hold dear, people (locals) here don't
have the same opinion. If I could afford to live in a quiteer neighborhood with the same killer view as I have now, I would too.
Simply put, I have interviewed many, many Loretanos and I speak their language and they want this stimulation in the economy that Loreto Bay will
bring.
On the meth subject. It is not americans or gringos that cause one to be on meth but the surroundings in which one that becomes addicted to
expericnce. That includes family. If a family is diligent in communication and dicipline chances are good that their children won't become addicted.
Its all about family and being responsible for the kids you bring into this world.
y esto es me dos centavos!
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Skeet/Loreto
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4709
Registered: 9-2-2003
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Pam: I did not mean that you had a bad Business.You are an Americano running a Business in Loreto just as I did for several years.I just prefer the
Local Pangaero who takes all the money home.Nothing personal at all.
Rancho Sonrisa S>A>de CV is still in opertaion.Property was bougth and sold. lots were split,.houses built ,and all of the money went back into the
local community.
I tried to keep it out of the hands of the new Architects and Contractors as as would on fishing.I spent 35 years as a friend to Alvaro and the
Murillo family and as a friend I will always recommend them.
You are very right about your Clientel they want English spoken and to catch fish which I understand you do very well.
When I wnet into business it wa not to make a lot of money it was to help some Mexicano familes sell their property and some Americanos to buy with
out being hosed around.I think you know by whom!!
Pam the only money I took out of Loreto was for what I got off the Ranch which I pirchased in 1972 and my wife and I built and planted every one of
the 350 Palms.
Loreto is still in my Heart and will always be!But I shall do everything possible to help anyone in Loreto.
If this new developemnt makes you a lot of money then that is Great,if it turns out to be a scam then that is not so great.
My wife and I chose to be members of the Mexicano comunity living on about $750. Month.
I think you are much better off living where you are I have sure learned a lot from those people.
Do you ever run across Alex or Ericka?Skeet/Loreto
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capt. mike
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8085
Registered: 11-26-2002
Location: Bat Cave
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Mood: Sling time!
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Phil S. - right on brother!
i'd buy there in an instant if they had a strip!
formerly Ordained in Rev. Ewing\'s Church by Mail - busted on tax fraud.......
Now joined L. Ron Hoover\'s church of Appliantology
\"Remember there is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over....\"
www.facebook.com/michael.l.goering |
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Skeet/Loreto
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4709
Registered: 9-2-2003
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Capt. Mike :ARe you Persona non grata at the nearby Airport?Skeet/Loreto
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Phil S
Super Nomad
Posts: 1205
Registered: 10-28-2003
Member Is Offline
Mood: After 34 years. Still in love w/ my wife
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Airplanes and places to land them
Capt. Mike.
Maybe for a small fee, you could make arrangements to land on the golf course. I'd recommend #11. I have no experience with tail draggers, only 172's
& 182's, other than my brothers Great Lakes bi plane back in the 70's. You could buzz my casa & I'd run down and pick up the pieces. Sorry. I meant
to say, pick you up. Or even easier would be to land on the highway, and taxi to your home.!!!!!!
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capt. mike
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8085
Registered: 11-26-2002
Location: Bat Cave
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Mood: Sling time!
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Naw Skeet, i go in there as little as
possible though, fees way too high - they're ripping off Gen Av there. we used to go to MMLT a lot more often in the past when it was easy.
now: $14 landing, $12 per noche tie down, they won't honor your 180 day visa so hit you and all pax for that at $21 a pop and, if you file outa there
a directo states, they PULL your good visa, the basteros!!
so... i don't go to Loreto much any more
did i mention the cab rip offs going from the airport....don't get me started!!
Phil, see you on the taxiway at Loreto Bay!
formerly Ordained in Rev. Ewing\'s Church by Mail - busted on tax fraud.......
Now joined L. Ron Hoover\'s church of Appliantology
\"Remember there is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over....\"
www.facebook.com/michael.l.goering |
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Skeet/Loreto
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4709
Registered: 9-2-2003
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Capt. Mike. I know of what you speak!!
However ther is a good strip about 4 miles North of the Airport next to the "Penthouse" and I would think that you could talk to the owner Mr. Yee who
would let you land.! Skeet/Loreto
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