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David K
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Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Geeze, it is really something... So Ralph, you also think that Hiroshima and Nagasaki are deserted, radioactive bomb craters still? 
Man, that Kool Aid is sure sweet!
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rts551
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6699
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Stupid is as stupid does...Of course not, but I think most studies reveal there are lingering effects and it is well known to MOST people that
radioactive material decay is measured in half lifes and some of the residual from the bomb can be measured in millions of years half life.
here is something to ponder
Currently there is a team of American and Japanese scientists studying the effects of the atomic bombs. There is still radiation from those two bombs
in Japan and surrounding areas but the levels are significantly lower after sixty years than when the bombs were first dropped. The cities of Nagasaki
and Hiroshima were rebuilt fairly soon after they were damaged by the bombs and a horrendous typhoon that did worse damage weeks later. The officials
of Japan did not have full understanding about the duration of radiation's effects when they rebuilt the cities. The team of scientists have kept
careful records of post sicknesses and the levels of radiation. They will continue until the radiation levels are safe again. If you want to learn
more there is an excellent show on the history channel about this team of scientists. I
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Ateo
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Posts: 5901
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I'm gonna buy land in the Chernobyl area. I hear it's totally safe.
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vgabndo
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Location: Mt. Shasta, CA
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Mood: Checking-off my bucket list.
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The initial explosions at ***ushima released the equivalent radiation of 168 Hiroshimas INTO THE ATMOSPHERE. The tons of radiation laden water that
are lost into the ocean every hour now is a whole other disaster. I'd be encouraged to hear that the international community has found some possible
remedy for the on-going poisoning of the Pacific.
Undoubtedly, there are people who cannot afford to give the anchor of sanity even the slightest tug. Sam Harris
"The situation is far too dire for pessimism."
Bill Kauth
Carl Sagan said, "We are a way for the cosmos to know itself."
PEACE, LOVE AND FISH TACOS
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rts551
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| Quote: | Originally posted by vgabndo
The initial explosions at ***ushima released the equivalent radiation of 168 Hiroshimas INTO THE ATMOSPHERE. The tons of radiation laden water that
are lost into the ocean every hour now is a whole other disaster. I'd be encouraged to hear that the international community has found some possible
remedy for the on-going poisoning of the Pacific. |
Hey, the fish are still swimming... There must be no problem.
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Sweetwater
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Posts: 915
Registered: 11-26-2010
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Mood: chilly today hot tomale
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Sorry folks,
It is somewhat in my nature to confront flippant responses to very concrete situations head on.
It's important to separate stupid statements from the ignorance that spawns them.
Radioactivity is not the issue and I'm appreciative that there is not high level contamination of the kelp beds that are a source of nutrition at that
level.
It is very important to realize that we're talking about a very specific type of radiation...the rads are not the problem. The specific bio-active
radionucleotides have a much greater impact. They are the reason that Chernobyl is not fit for humans for thousands of years. The effects on free
roaming mammals will only be ascertained after hundred of those years have past and we won't be here to see those results.
The disrespect shown for the humans living in the first military experiments on human populations, Nagasaki and Hiroshima, is simply beyond my ability
to tolerate. Go live there and tell me how you and your future generations respond. These are not examples of thriving communities without health and
welfare results from the nuclear explosions.
Radioactive Strontium will be taken up by your bone and NEVER excreted. It will stay there until you die and be recycled into the next generation of
living bone, just as Calcium is recycled. Radioactive Cesium did not EXIST until humans created it in our food chain with nuclear experiments and
explosions.
No, I'm not claiming the sky is falling but if you want to live in the chite you create, please move into the real territory. Like I said, tell us in
3-4 generations how that works out for you.
Nobody is stupid unless they actively make that choice.
Everbody\'s preachin\' at me that we all wanna git to heaven, trouble is, nobody wants to die to git there.-BB King
Reality is what does not go away when you stop believing in it. -Philip K Dick
Nothing is worse than active ignorance. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe(1749-1832, German writer, artist and politician)
When choosing between two evils, I always like to try the one I\'ve never tried before. - Mae West
Experience is what keeps a man who makes the same mistake twice from admitting it the third time around.
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Kgryfon
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Posts: 624
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Location: East Bay, CA
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"...the first military experiments on human populations, Nagasaki and Hiroshima..."
Well, I'd hesitate to say these were the FIRST military experiments on human populations (not by a long shot), and I would also hesitate to say these
even qualified as human experiments. These cities were bombed as an act of war, not so the population could become human guinea pigs.
In any case, this has really gotten off topic. 
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SFandH
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Posts: 7084
Registered: 8-5-2011
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| Quote: | Originally posted by vgabndo
The initial explosions at ***ushima released the equivalent radiation of 168 Hiroshimas INTO THE ATMOSPHERE. The tons of radiation laden water that
are lost into the ocean every hour now is a whole other disaster. |
Exactly!
Minimizing the radiological effects of ***ushima because the two cities that were obliterated by the blast effects of nuclear bombs have been rebuilt
doesn't make any sense. Those two bombs were each composed of around 150 pounds of radioactive material, Hiroshima uranium, Nagasaki plutonium.
According to this report, the ***ushima reactor cores that completely melted have released 800 tons of radioactive material.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/***ushima-the-ticking-nuclear-b...
It's a good thing there is the Pacific ocean between us and them.
[Edited on 5-11-2014 by SFandH]
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64854
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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Kgryfon's post was GOOD NEWS people!
I agree, good news... which is the opposite of what many want to hear as it downplays the drama they need to push their agenda.
Just look at the hysteria here by some when I simply pointed out the obvious!?? 
Thank you for the good news Kgryfon!
OF COURSE, the new movie Godzilla is opening in theaters this week... and you know what made that lizard big!
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
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Mood: optimistic
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| Quote: | Originally posted by SFandH
| Quote: | Originally posted by vgabndo
The initial explosions at ***ushima released the equivalent radiation of 168 Hiroshimas INTO THE ATMOSPHERE. The tons of radiation laden water that
are lost into the ocean every hour now is a whole other disaster. |
Exactly!
Minimizing the radiological effects of ***ushima because the two cities that were obliterated by the blast effects of nuclear bombs have been rebuilt
doesn't make any sense. Those two bombs were each composed of around 150 pounds of radioactive material, Hiroshima uranium, Nagasaki plutonium.
According to this report, the ***ushima reactor cores that completely melted have released 800 tons of radioactive material.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/***ushima-the-ticking-nuclear-b...
It's a good thing there is the Pacific ocean between us and them.
[Edited on 5-11-2014 by SFandH] |
Assuming this article is accurate (a big assumption), NOW WHAT do we do??? What can be realistically done? This article sounds like a "ON THE
BEACH" (movie) situation. Time to move to Utah, or even Kansas?!?!?!?!?
Any ideas?
Barry
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Skipjack Joe
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8084
Registered: 7-12-2004
Location: Bahia Asuncion
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
You do realize that the cities of Hiroshima and Nagasaki rebuilt in the same place...
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The trouble with this statement is that it states that dropping those bombs was acceptable because thriving cities arose from the ashes. Not only
acceptable but even favorable for the Japanese people.
It's an attempt to historically reinterpret a criminal act on the civilians of Japan into a benevolent one. An attempt of justification. It is often
implied by such 'patriots' that Japan somehow actually benefited from losing the war and are better off from it.
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Kgryfon
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Posts: 624
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Location: East Bay, CA
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Well, not that I think this was a good thing, but historians and military analysts generally agree that dropping the bombs ended the war sooner and
that as a result fewer people died in the end. I am no historian or military analyst so you'll have to read and make your own conclusion.
Still not sure what any of this has to do with the original topic. Do you have anything to add that is related to the original topic?
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Skipjack Joe
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Location: Bahia Asuncion
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I am responding to this statement -
"You do realize that the cities of Hiroshima and Nagasaki rebuilt in the same place..."
Perhaps you should object to it because it had nothing to do with the original topic.
------------------------
My feeling on the original topic is that I'm not surprised that no/little radioactivity was detected in the kelp across the pacific. It would
surprising if there had been any. We are talking about diluting the original effluent with trillions of acre feet of water. The amount is almost
unimaginable, like outer space.
Comparing that to Chernobyl or Three Mile Island makes little sense because it remains local. Whatever is 'infected' has no way of dispersing.
Whatever radioactivity is absorbed by living matter eventually rots into the soil and is only removed by rain water.
My only exposure (grin) to the subject was Christmas Island, a place that I often fished. All humans were removed from the island prior to dropping
the test bombs and were not allowed to return for 30 years until the Brits felt the measurements were low enough. As I recall the earth down to
several feet was scraped of the entire island because it had the greatest level of contamination, a procedure which allowed the native population to
return sooner and grow crops as was done previously.
As I recall most of the people of Hiroshima died not from the blast, 100,000, but from ignorance of the danger that the radioactive material posed.
Another 200,000 died weeks later by drinking radioactive water and utilizing radioactive materials. Thirst was a major problem because all was
decimated.
[Edited on 5-12-2014 by Skipjack Joe]
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
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Mood: optimistic
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
You do realize that the cities of Hiroshima and Nagasaki rebuilt in the same place...
|
The trouble with this statement is that it states that dropping those bombs was acceptable because thriving cities arose from the ashes. Not only
acceptable but even favorable for the Japanese people.
It's an attempt to historically reinterpret a criminal act on the civilians of Japan into a benevolent one. An attempt of justification. It is often
implied by such 'patriots' that Japan somehow actually benefited from losing the war and are better off from it. |
What???????????? Skipjack------your statements are huge sweeping assumptions that simply are not in evidence, and are an expanded and I think
incorrect speculation & condemnation of what you feel David meant, IMO.
Why do so many dramatically read so much into what other's say?
To me all David K is saying is that some of the original scientific projections of the long term consequences of the bombings has just not proven to
be true. That's it!!
I certainly think that everything written within this Thread is VERY pertinent to the original post, at least to me it is.
Barry
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DianaT
Select Nomad
Posts: 10020
Registered: 12-17-2004
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Kgryfon
Well, not that I think this was a good thing, but historians and military analysts generally agree that dropping the bombs ended the war sooner and
that as a result fewer people died in the end. I am no historian or military analyst so you'll have to read and make your own conclusion.
Still not sure what any of this has to do with the original topic. Do you have anything to add that is related to the original topic?
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That is a very controversial subject among U.S. historians and there is no overall agreement. So some argue that because there were peace overtures
being made, that neither bomb was needed and that it really was done more as a warning to Stalin --- a let me show you what I have type of thing
because of what was happening in Europe. They believe the war was ending and a land invasion would not have been necessary.
Others argue that dropping the first bomb shortened the war and saved lives. There may be some, but I have never read a defense of the dropping of
the second bomb. The first one made any statement someone wanted to make.
They all argue with the same "facts". That is history --- facts are that we dropped two A-bombs on Japan, the rest is interpretation .
But that is off the topic. I am glad that at this point the kelp is radiation free, and will rely on information from the scientists trained to
follow this and determine what may and is happening. They are still learning more about the long term effects which were unknown back in the 40s.
Lots of qualified people out there, but we should be aware of the "scientists" who are well paid by possible corporate interests.
Or as Ralph stated, hey the fish are still swimming so there is no problem.
[Edited on 5-12-2014 by DianaT]
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64854
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DianaT
... Lots of qualified people out there, but we should be aware of the "scientists" who are well paid by possible corporate interests.
...
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Sounds like you are on to something and we should be made aware of what the government paid "scientists" are doing in respect to "global warming...
'er cooling... 'er climate change"
Side note: Why do you trust a government paid person over one who works for someone else? Government paid people don't have to be correct to keep
their jobs... heck, they don't even have to be good! Trust the people, not the state!
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SFandH
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7084
Registered: 8-5-2011
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
NOW WHAT do we do??? What can be realistically done?
Any ideas?
Barry |
Don't eat tuna caught in the vicinity of ***ushima, that would be risky.
As far as radioactivity being a concern for the west coast of the US, I think that the old saying "the solution to pollution is dilution" is at work.
As pointed out above the Pacific ocean is huge
Keep informed. This EPA web page has pertinent links in its ***ushima section.
http://www.epa.gov/radiation/
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rts551
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6699
Registered: 9-5-2003
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You have already been informed that you can not believe anything the >gov says.
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
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Mood: optimistic
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DianaT
| Quote: | Originally posted by Kgryfon
Well, not that I think this was a good thing, but historians and military analysts generally agree that dropping the bombs ended the war sooner and
that as a result fewer people died in the end. I am no historian or military analyst so you'll have to read and make your own conclusion.
Still not sure what any of this has to do with the original topic. Do you have anything to add that is related to the original topic?
|
That is a very controversial subject among U.S. historians and there is no overall agreement. So some argue that because there were peace overtures
being made, that neither bomb was needed and that it really was done more as a warning to Stalin --- a let me show you what I have type of thing
because of what was happening in Europe. They believe the war was ending and a land invasion would not have been necessary.
Others argue that dropping the first bomb shortened the war and saved lives. There may be some, but I have never read a defense of the dropping of
the second bomb. The first one made any statement someone wanted to make.
They all argue with the same "facts". That is history --- facts are that we dropped two A-bombs on Japan, the rest is interpretation .
But that is off the topic. I am glad that at this point the kelp is radiation free, and will rely on information from the scientists trained to
follow this and determine what may and is happening. They are still learning more about the long term effects which were unknown back in the 40s.
Lots of qualified people out there, but we should be aware of the "scientists" who are well paid by possible corporate interests.
Or as Ralph stated, hey the fish are still swimming so there is no problem.
[Edited on 5-12-2014 by DianaT] |
I respectfully refer you to the Wiki link below for a clearer understanding of the reasoning behind the dropping of both bombs on Japan.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_bombings_of_Hiroshima_an...
Barry
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DianaT
Select Nomad
Posts: 10020
Registered: 12-17-2004
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
| Quote: | Originally posted by DianaT
| Quote: | Originally posted by Kgryfon
Well, not that I think this was a good thing, but historians and military analysts generally agree that dropping the bombs ended the war sooner and
that as a result fewer people died in the end. I am no historian or military analyst so you'll have to read and make your own conclusion.
Still not sure what any of this has to do with the original topic. Do you have anything to add that is related to the original topic?
|
That is a very controversial subject among U.S. historians and there is no overall agreement. So some argue that because there were peace overtures
being made, that neither bomb was needed and that it really was done more as a warning to Stalin --- a let me show you what I have type of thing
because of what was happening in Europe. They believe the war was ending and a land invasion would not have been necessary.
Others argue that dropping the first bomb shortened the war and saved lives. There may be some, but I have never read a defense of the dropping of
the second bomb. The first one made any statement someone wanted to make.
They all argue with the same "facts". That is history --- facts are that we dropped two A-bombs on Japan, the rest is interpretation .
But that is off the topic. I am glad that at this point the kelp is radiation free, and will rely on information from the scientists trained to
follow this and determine what may and is happening. They are still learning more about the long term effects which were unknown back in the 40s.
Lots of qualified people out there, but we should be aware of the "scientists" who are well paid by possible corporate interests.
Or as Ralph stated, hey the fish are still swimming so there is no problem.
[Edited on 5-12-2014 by DianaT] |
I respectfully refer you to the Wiki link below for a clearer understanding of the reasoning behind the dropping of both bombs on Japan.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_bombings_of_Hiroshima_an...
Barry |
Wikipedia?? Surely you kidding?
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