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micah202
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Location: vancouver,BC
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| Quote: | Originally posted by dtbushpilot
Walk away David, it's not worth it.... |
....'IT' being the planet??  
....perhaps you're constipated enough that you don't care to do anything but belittle this concern,,,,but it sure would be interesting to
hear what good news you have in regards to deep drilling and blasting into the depths of earthquake-prone earth
...take your time...this should be interesting
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woody with a view
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micah, where are you getting this from? I don't see a link in any of your posts that why I asked my original question. then you state that these sites
were shutdown? it sure would be nice to have all of the info so we could have an informed discussion instead of dodging your bombs from the great
white north.
when you post a link in YOUR thread so others can read the story maybe then you can act so above us all.
[Edited on 10-14-2014 by woody with a view]
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micah202
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| Quote: | Originally posted by woody with a view
micah, where are you getting this from? I don't see a link in any of your posts that why I asked my original question. then you state that these sites
were shutdown? it sure would be nice to have all of the info so we could have an informed discussion instead of dodging your bombs from the great
white north.
when you post a link in YOUR thread so others can read the story maybe then you can act so above us all. |
sorry,,,here's the source.... although you did not ask in your earlier post...''why don't they go after the companies responsible for the "injected"
waste water? why aren't they named? is this PC run amok?''
.... http://www.desmogblog.com/2014/10/07/central-california-aqui...
.......not acting 'above' y'all,,,and didn't state that any sites were 'shut down as you're saying,,,not throwing 'bombs' either,,,,but looking
forward to the rational discussion you talk of....let's get past the whitewash on this..'not worth it,,,indeed!' ......someone just needs to say why
fracking is such a good idea for mexico!?
[Edited on 10-14-2014 by micah202]
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woody with a view
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Seriously? whatever....
| Quote: | Originally posted by micah202
| Quote: | Originally posted by woody with a view
micah, where are you getting this from? I don't see a link in any of your posts that why I asked my original question. then you state that these sites
were shutdown? it sure would be nice to have all of the info so we could have an informed discussion instead of dodging your bombs from the great
white north.
when you post a link in YOUR thread so others can read the story maybe then you can act so above us all. |
sorry,,,here's the source.... although you did not ask in your earlier post...''why don't they go after the companies responsible for the "injected"
waste water? why aren't they named? is this PC run amok?''
.... http://www.desmogblog.com/2014/10/07/central-california-aqui...
.......not acting 'above' y'all,,,and didn't state that any sites were 'shut down as you're saying,,,not throwing 'bombs' either,,,,but looking
forward to the rational discussion you talk of....let's get past the whitewash on this..'not worth it,,,indeed!' ......someone just needs to say why
fracking is such a good idea for mexico!?
[Edited on 10-14-2014 by micah202] |
| Quote: | Originally posted by woody with a view
why don't they go after the companies responsible for the "injected" waste water? why aren't they named? is this PC run amok? |
| Quote: | Originally posted by micah202
...Bollocks DT...it's actually breaking news ,,,with 9 of these waste injection sites shut down just in JULY ....good way to lose credibility
to your whitewash if you can't even read the article you're writing off......can you not read??? 
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micah202
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...wow Woody...wtf!?
...you say you asked for the link in your 1st post but did -not-!
...I pointed out that 9 of the waste injection sites were shut down--not websites!....a pretty clear example that the concerns are -serious-.
...you seem to be much more interested in discrediting than discussing a serious situation for the environment.....
................'whatever' ,,indeed
[Edited on 10-14-2014 by micah202]
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Mexitron
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Ateo
.
How things have changed. On the show this week we talked to Cornell University engineering professor Anthony Ingraffea about the science behind
fracking—and had him explain why, nowadays, the scientific argument against fracking is more extensive. It involves not simply groundwater
contamination, but also earthquake generation and the accidental emissions of methane, a potent greenhouse gas. |
I can verify the increased earthquakes after having lived in Texas for a few years ( in Fort Worth which is surrounded by an armada of fracking
rigs)---there's lots of them now, in a place that is seismically unactive. They are, however, generally small magnitude.
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woody with a view
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| Quote: | Originally posted by micah202
...wow Woody...wtf!?
...you say you asked for the link in your 1st post but did -not-!
...I pointed out that 9 of the waste injection sites were shut down--not websites!....a pretty clear example that the concerns are -serious-.
...you seem to be much more interested in discrediting than discussing a serious situation for the environment.....
................'whatever' ,,indeed
[Edited on 10-14-2014 by micah202] |
which sites were shutdown? FRACKING SITES! you used the word "sites" yourself.
all I was trying to say was insert a link with your thread so everyone can start from the same place and have a discussion.
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Sweetwater
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Mood: chilly today hot tomale
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A significant lack of knowledge is being displayed again and that is due to ignorance. A little due diligence clarifies the issue. Waste water from
hydraulic fracking is a known source of pollutants, several of which are highly toxic. If that water is not treated and disposed of properly, it will
create an environmental hazard. Those are irrefutable facts stated clearly. And this reported circumstance is an example of that type of irresponsible
and illegal activity. Those companies and those wells have earned the penalty of being shut down. I'm sure that further legal actions will follow.
There is no ideology debate here, these are proven toxic hazards that can not be injected into public waters, just like the fact that you can not
empty your bilgewater from your boat or RV onto the street.
| Quote: |
Documents Reveal Billions of Gallons of Oil Industry Wastewater Illegally Injected Into Central California Aquifers Tests Find Elevated Arsenic,
Thallium Levels in Nearby Water Wells SAN FRANCISCO— Almost 3 billion gallons of oil industry wastewater have been illegally dumped into central
California aquifers that supply drinking water and farming irrigation, according to state documents obtained by the Center for Biological Diversity.
The wastewater entered the aquifers through at least nine injection disposal wells used by the oil industry to dispose of waste contaminated with
fracking fluids and other pollutants. The documents also reveal that Central Valley Water Board testing found high levels of arsenic, thallium and
nitrates — contaminants sometimes found in oil industry wastewater — in water-supply wells near these waste-disposal operations. “Clean water is one
of California’s most crucial resources, and these documents make it clear that state regulators have utterly failed to protect our water from oil
industry pollution,” said Hollin Kretzmann, a Center attorney. “Much more testing is needed to gauge the full extent of water pollution and the threat
to public health. But Governor Brown should move quickly to halt fracking to ward off a surge in oil industry wastewater that California simply isn’t
prepared to dispose of safely.” The state’s Water Board confirmed beyond doubt that at least nine wastewater disposal wells have been injecting waste
into aquifers that contain high-quality water that is supposed to be protected under federal and state law.
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Everbody\'s preachin\' at me that we all wanna git to heaven, trouble is, nobody wants to die to git there.-BB King
Reality is what does not go away when you stop believing in it. -Philip K Dick
Nothing is worse than active ignorance. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe(1749-1832, German writer, artist and politician)
When choosing between two evils, I always like to try the one I\'ve never tried before. - Mae West
Experience is what keeps a man who makes the same mistake twice from admitting it the third time around.
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woody with a view
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^^^YES!^^^
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David K
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Nobody here wants polluted ground water, or oil companies to violate the law or rules.
Oil can be obtained safely and must be obtained to meet the needs of the people and to improve economic and social conditions.
If a country has its own oil, and enough to take it to when solar, fusion, or some other energy source can replace it, then it would seem to be the
most fair for that country to use its supply instead of another country's.
Every time we create a way to become energy independent and raise the standard of living, some far out group wants to stop it, put America down, and
will make up horror stories to sway public opinion.
Let's have the facts and use logic, not emotional rants to obtain opinions on what is good for our country... and for the world.
If new fracking technology does pollute ground water, the land, the air, then I don't want any part of it. On the other hand, if it is a safe way to
fulfill our energy needs and creates good, high paying, full time employment (as it has so far where it is done), then we all should be for it.
You want to go to Baja, after all... well, your car/ truck/ plane needs fuel to get you there (and to work to pay for your vacation)!
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bajabuddha
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Great campaign speech, DK. Now get on the ballot.
I don't have a BUCKET LIST, but I do have a F***- IT LIST a mile long!
86 - 45*
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rts551
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
Nobody here wants polluted ground water, or oil companies to violate the law or rules.
Oil can be obtained safely and must be obtained to meet the needs of the people and to improve economic and social conditions.
If a country has its own oil, and enough to take it to when solar, fusion, or some other energy source can replace it, then it would seem to be the
most fair for that country to use its supply instead of another country's.
Every time we create a way to become energy independent and raise the standard of living, some far out group wants to stop it, put America down, and
will make up horror stories to sway public opinion.
Let's have the facts and use logic, not emotional rants to obtain opinions on what is good for our country... and for the world.
If new fracking technology does pollute ground water, the land, the air, then I don't want any part of it. On the other hand, if it is a safe way to
fulfill our energy needs and creates good, high paying, full time employment (as it has so far where it is done), then we all should be for it.
You want to go to Baja, after all... well, your car/ truck/ plane needs fuel to get you there (and to work to pay for your vacation)!
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don't you think there is enough out there to start questioning the safety of fracking? Or do we continue with out question and then find out at a
later date that irreparable damage has been done?
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woody with a view
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isn't that what's going on with ebola? there are 2 cases now, when it gets over 100 (let's hope not!) just remember what ol Barry said on Sept 16:
"First and foremost, I want the American people to know that our experts, here at the CDC and across our government, agree that the chances of an
Ebola outbreak here in the United States are extremely low. We’ve been taking the necessary precautions, including working with countries in West
Africa to increase screening at airports so that someone with the virus doesn’t get on a plane for the United States. In the unlikely event that
someone with Ebola does reach our shores, we’ve taken new measures so that we’re prepared here at home. We’re working to help flight crews identify
people who are sick, and more labs across our country now have the capacity to quickly test for the virus. We’re working with hospitals to make sure
that they are prepared, and to ensure that our doctors, our nurses and our medical staff are trained, are ready, and are able to deal with a possible
case safely."
well that didn't take long! does anyone think an airport worker or flight crew can diagnose someone who isn't showing any symptoms as they pass thru
an airport? how did a trained nurse contract the virus from the ONLY patient in America to have ebola?
when HIV first popped up it killed 100% of those infected. so this ebola is only 1/2 bad I guess?
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Bajaboy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
Every time we create a way to become energy independent and raise the standard of living, some far out group wants to stop it, put America down, and
will make up horror stories to sway public opinion.
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So I'm wondering which far out group is against clean energy?
Oh yeah, Big Oil!
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bajabuddha
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Location: Baja New Mexico
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| Quote: | Originally posted by woody with a view
how did a trained nurse contract the virus from the ONLY patient in America to have ebola? |
...she forgot to gargle....
I don't have a BUCKET LIST, but I do have a F***- IT LIST a mile long!
86 - 45*
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Mexitron
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3397
Registered: 9-21-2003
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
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Mood: Happy!
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
Nobody here wants polluted ground water, or oil companies to violate the law or rules.
Oil can be obtained safely and must be obtained to meet the needs of the people and to improve economic and social conditions.
If a country has its own oil, and enough to take it to when solar, fusion, or some other energy source can replace it, then it would seem to be the
most fair for that country to use its supply instead of another country's.
Every time we create a way to become energy independent and raise the standard of living, some far out group wants to stop it, put America down, and
will make up horror stories to sway public opinion.
Let's have the facts and use logic, not emotional rants to obtain opinions on what is good for our country... and for the world.
If new fracking technology does pollute ground water, the land, the air, then I don't want any part of it. On the other hand, if it is a safe way to
fulfill our energy needs and creates good, high paying, full time employment (as it has so far where it is done), then we all should be for it.
You want to go to Baja, after all... well, your car/ truck/ plane needs fuel to get you there (and to work to pay for your vacation)!
|
With all the fracking going in Central Texas there have been relatively few cases of contamination. Of course nothing will ever be perfect and I'm
sure a few of those gassy faucets are from fracking. I would though, rather see the US head towards other energy sources with equal enthusiasm. Fork
over another 10 billion to get fusion off the ground! Then we have a 400 year supply of energy (as Lithium is needed in the reaction and that's the
supply we have on Earth). But, in 400 years we'll be boldly plundering other worlds for dilithium crystals, eh Kirk?
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micah202
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Location: vancouver,BC
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| Quote: | Originally posted by woody with a view
all I was trying to say was insert a link with your thread so everyone can start from the same place and have a discussion. |
...err,,it's in the post you quoted above..4:01am....shouldn't be too hard to find if you're not soooo busy trying to discredit,,,deflect or change
the subject.......it seems -anything- is better than actually addressing the issue? .....here its the link again.... http://www.desmogblog.com/2014/10/07/central-california-aqui...
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dtbushpilot
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Well, we finally made it home to Baja, it's been a lon few days but we're glad to be home.
I guess I owe micah a reply to his question about my reply to woody's question. I find it interesting that no one other than me offered up an answer
to the original question. I was also disappointed that you (micah) felt the need to respond with insults and name calling but there is a certain group
that I expect that kind of thing from on Nomads so no worries, as you were.
When someone asks me for information I usually like to try to give it based on my personal experience rather than quoting someone else's research,
I'll try to do that when I have the opportunity to gather my thoughts. There is a big pile of bags and boxes in the middle of the floor and my
sweetheart is giving me that "get off the computer and get to work" look so I'd better get moving.
In the interim and going against what I said above I'd like to add some information gathered by others that apply to some of the conversation in this
post.
For some information on who owns oil companies look here:
http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/ir_11.htm
For something about oil companies investment in alternative energy look here:
http://www.bp.com/en/global/corporate/about-bp/bp-worldwide/...
For some general information about the role of oil companies and what fracking etc. is about you can find some interesting stuff here:
http://www.energytomorrow.org/
And for some general straight talk about what a company (including oil companies) is in business to do there is something here:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/lorensteffy/2013/06/28/alternati...
I feel that I need to give fair warning: Those who think that big oil is owned by fat cats on wall street, that taxing big oil hurts those fat cats,
that oil companies are afraid of and hate alternative energy sources, that big oil doesn't care about the environment just the bottom line and many
other liberal talking points probably won't read any of this stuff and if you do you will either be better informed or you will claw your eyes out
half way through it.
"Life is tough".....It's even tougher if you're stupid.....
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64855
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Thank you (DT) David!
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micah202
Super Nomad
Posts: 1615
Registered: 1-19-2011
Location: vancouver,BC
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Sweetwater
A significant lack of knowledge is being displayed again and that is due to ignorance. A little due diligence clarifies the issue. Waste water from
hydraulic fracking is a known source of pollutants, several of which are highly toxic. If that water is not treated and disposed of properly, it will
create an environmental hazard. Those are irrefutable facts stated clearly. And this reported circumstance is an example of that type of irresponsible
and illegal activity. Those companies and those wells have earned the penalty of being shut down. I'm sure that further legal actions will follow.
There is no ideology debate here, these are proven toxic hazards that can not be injected into public waters, just like the fact that you can not
empty your bilgewater from your boat or RV onto the street. |
...thanks for actually reading the article and making thoughtful comments.
....my concern overall is how fracking has quickly become the new goldrush,,but unlike golddigging,,the quest for natural gas blasts relatively deep
into the earths surface.
.....governments all over the world are quickly embracing this technology not for any reason that makes long-term sense,,,but for the financial
benefit that comes by way of taxes that will somehow make it look like they are running their governments well....this seems to be a rather short term
gain for possibly long-term damage.
....I do not trust big oil to tell me how good this all is,,...every indication I get is that perhaps in some places they are not polluting
groundwater,,causing seismic damage,etc but they totally lose credit when they undertake clearly dangerous, illegal ,and highly immoral practices
such as quoted in the OP.
...Economically fracking is a boondoggle as well....there's many regions and countries that most of the natural gas is destined for foreign
markets...up here in BC the intention is to make va$t amount$ of $ from importing to china,,,,but -already- the price is being driven down and
contracts with other countries being signed,,that will for a largepart shut-out our production once it's online
....it doesn't take a crystal ball to look down the road even a few short years to see that the results of the fracking debacle will be a glut of
lowcost natural gas,,,damages to the environment well beyond what's already apparent,,,and quite possibly some seismic issues we can't seem to imagine
yet!
...there are many other ways to address the fuel issue but of course it would take imagination,,investment and discipline that's contrary to goldrush
mentality
....edit...DT...I just noticed your post above,,,,I too have a few things going on,,will check-out your links later on sometime.....and I apologize
for my language-it reflects the emotions that get triggered by my concerns --it really would be good for me to work hard to learn all sides of this
issue in a calm and thorough manner ...I'll do my best to take care 
[Edited on 10-14-2014 by micah202]
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