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woody with a view
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it says it
desulphate 7v-11.5v
bulk 11.5 -14.4v
absorb 14.4v floats 13.6v
i left it plugged in 3 weeks ago for overnight. i'll let it sit this time for a week and watch it. it's already 12.2 but i realize that isn't rested
volts. Thanks!
so is it worthwhile to hook up a 50 watt panel and your 10amp controller so i can "maintain" it using the sun?
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PaulW
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Comments:
The purpose of a battery maintainer is to maintain not charge. Like was said above eventual charging will occur if the self decay rate of the batt is
less than the maintainer provides, anyway it will take a long time if the batt is less than ~95% charged. Park your rig and the battery should be
sitting above 13v. If so then a 0.75A to 2A maintainer will do its job to prevent battery self discharge.
Typical maintainer (of the 110v variety) will slowly charge the batt to 14.4v then turn off, then repeat when the voltage decays below 13.2v. Buy
these things at Walmart for around $20. I have one for each of my vehicles that are used part year.
A simple solar panel will charge but not maintain. It will do a great job of ruining the battery due to overcharging. Combining a maintainer with a
solar source is the way to go.
The latest consumer reports has their latest battery test results.
As usual the very high quality, high performance, and low production AGM batts were not tested. They test stuff for average use.
Battery charge status after resting for 12 hours:
Based of many test results from the batt literature
This table is just the general rule to determine how many amps should be used to try to bring the batt back.
12.6-12.8v 100% charged
12.4-12.6 75-100%
12.2-12.4 50-75%
12.0-12.2 25-50%
11.7-12.0 0-25%
Your car, truck, or boat should have battery voltage while running between ~14. and ~14.5. Then decay soon to just above 13v then after 12 hours rest
the table above applies.
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woody with a view
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the CHARGE side of this controller is for an inverter to connect to, i'm guessing. if so, i could hook up a 400watt inverter to the 100watt flex
panel/10amp controller then plug in my maintainer to the inverter and have a worthwhile system, right?
edit: foto
[Edited on 12-6-2015 by woody with a view]
[Edited on 12-6-2015 by woody with a view]
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landyacht318
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No, hook the inverter directly to the battery over a short length of thick copper. Use AC extension cords to reach distant appliances.
Ignore the charge+- terminals in that diagram, that controller could never provide 400 watts through those load terminals. They probably have a 2 or
3 amp limit( 40 watts perhaps)
A good solar controller can maintain a battery at full charge, but there are some ideals possible in this regard that can greatly affect the outcome.
proper float voltage is temperature dependent.
Most AGM batteries want higher float voltages up to 13.6, where 13.6 on a hot fully charged wet battery will cause excessive water usage and destroy
it if it is not watered in time.
the ability to set/adjust a float voltage is a huge factor in how well a solar controller maintains a battery.
a 5$ controller might not allow any adjustments at all, and its 'happy medium' one size fits all might not agree with the battery its usage, average
temperature health or usage.
As a deeply cycled battery needs something different to reach full charge, than one lightly cycled.
Your optima's capacity has shrunk from chronic undercharging and sitting depleted.
Get it fully charged somehow, and then keep that maintainer on it during periods of rest, and it might give you a few more years of usage, or perhaps
just a few weeks before that dreaded starter click.
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captkw
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my part man
Who is boat owner (2) and has worked at the same place for 30 something years,, stopped selling optima's batts to RV and marine guys as he had Soo
much trouble with them... when I inspect a vessel I will not procede till the batts are replaced with the correct batt/s and controller.. and as
landyacht stated battery temp is very critical...One of the most misunderstood and often neglected things around is a battery IMO... deep clycle
batts are used in smaller boats,, Sooo much that its a bad joke !! and should NEVER be used with a outboard !! Read the OWNER'S manual..Not what you
cousin "Billy Bob" tells Ya !!
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woody with a view
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i borrowed the neoghbors charger and set it on 10 amps for the past 24 hours. when i got home its floating so i unplugged it and set it to 2amp. i'll
leave it there until the weekend and see what happens over the weekend. then i'll plug the maintainer in after i give back the charger.
thanks for the replies!
[Edited on 12-8-2015 by woody with a view]
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brewer
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I'm looking for something similar. Just a solar powered battery charger I can take camping in remote areas and trickle charge my Dodge diesel
batteries.
You know, if a kid leaves a light on and drains the batts. I also had my alternator go out last trip on the way home. I didn't shut it down until it
was parked in my driveway. Batteries went pretty much dead.
I'm looking for some kind of solar charger that could charge me back up in the sticks if it happened again.
Thanks for any suggestions.
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landyacht318
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Expect about 5 amps of charging current when faced at the sun midday from this suitcase style portable 100 watt kit:
http://www.amazon.com/Renogy-Watts-Monocrystalline-Foldable-...
One could likely harvest about 45 Amp hours on an Equinox day if the panel is moved to face the sun morning, midday and afternoon.
A group27 battery ~12.5" long x 6.75"wide x 9.25" tall, 54 to 62 LB has 100 to 115 AH capacity at the standard 20 hour rate.
It is really difficult to have too much solar wattage, the only penalty is the size required to store it, and the initial price.
The linked kit above, well one pays extra for the portability factor, but could make one for less that is as, or more capable.
Thick copper is your friend when designing a system.
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ncampion
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A good camping setup is a 100 watt panel with a small charge controller (sufficient capacity to handle the panel output) attached and wired to the
back of the panel. A couple of alligator clips to attach to the battery and you will be fine. You just have to find a place to store the panel when
not in use.
Living Large in Loreto. Off-grid and happy.
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Whale-ista
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Would something like this help?
I use GoalZero products for multi-day off-grid camping trips to keep electronics charged. I have a Guardian, have not needed to use it (yet)
http://www.goalzero.com/guardian/
From website:
Keep 12V batteries charged and ready to go for when you need them most. The Guardian 12V Charge Controller plus Goal Zero Solar Panel is the perfect
system to protect your batteries when they're not in use..
Maintain 12V Batteries
Trickle, recharge and maintain 12V batteries
Easy to Use
Small and easy to use
Plug it and Forget
Pair with a Goal Zero Solar Panel for a self-sustaining charging cycle
\"Probably the airplanes will bring week-enders from Los Angeles before long, and the beautiful poor bedraggled old town will bloom with a
Floridian ugliness.\" (John Steinbeck, 1940, discussing the future of La Paz, BCS, Mexico)
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landyacht318
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Do note that many charge controllers say not to disconnect from battery while panel is still in the sunlight making power, so a Simple easy peazy
alligator clamp set up coming from a charge controller might release the magic smoke inside the charge controller.
Disconnect panel from controller first, or cover the panel if still light outside. Some charge controllers will not be bothered if removed from the
battery while the solar is still providing current, but others WILL release their magic smoke.
There are all sorts of products with excellent marketing, their claims are misleading and sometimes just outright outlandish, especially when aimed at
a niche market and those with thick wallets burning a hole in their pockets.
There is a huge difference in the wattage needed to maintain a battery at full, compared to recharging a battery to full from 50%. The latter should
get significantly more wattage, and if more than needed, the solar controller prevents overcharge, but then one has the capacity to run more things.
About 60 watts can run a 12v compressor fridge indefinitely in a sunny environment, but obviously more wattage gives a higher buffer.
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Hook
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Quote: Originally posted by brewer  | I'm looking for something similar. Just a solar powered battery charger I can take camping in remote areas and trickle charge my Dodge diesel
batteries.
You know, if a kid leaves a light on and drains the batts. I also had my alternator go out last trip on the way home. I didn't shut it down until it
was parked in my driveway. Batteries went pretty much dead.
I'm looking for some kind of solar charger that could charge me back up in the sticks if it happened again.
Thanks for any suggestions. |
You're really asking for two things here. If all you really wanted was a trickle charge to prevent discharge while the truck sits for long periods,
then a solar panel that puts out about 1.5a MAX doesnt even need a charge controller, IF the battery is ~ a standard 100ah battery.
But then you mentioned needing to charge the battery back up in the case of a significant discharge and to accomplish this with solar, you need AT
LEAST a 100 watt panel (ideally more than that) and that means a charge controller as well. This setup WILL trickle but charge controllers are so
smart now that they will first top off the battery if it determines it needs it. Most wont allow you to set it on straight trickle.
To get the most life out of any permutation of a lead/acid battery, they really prefer a bulk/absorption rate that is about 20% of their amp/hour
capacity. Charging at lower rates runs the risk of slow death by sulfation. So, a 20amp rate somewhere north of 14.2v (depending on the type of
battery) is ideal for a 100ah battery. That's a lot more than a single 100w panel can deliver.
But this is a description of the IDEAL setup. Many of us, including myself, just dont have the convenient space to be dealing with ~200+ watts of
solar panel in a portable setup. So, I have a 130w panel that I have seen put out as much as 11amps at ~14.2-14.4 volts. My group 31 Lifeline battery
is now 3-4 years old and seems fine. I actually disconnect it from the solar panel for a month or so and then let it go through the whole process of
bulk/absorption/trickle when I re-connect it. I have read that that is better for an AGM than a constant trickle.
BTW, from what I have read, 13.6 is too HIGH a voltage to be trickling many AGMs. Check with your battery mfgr.
I dont know why we are on the subject of AGMs. For the scenarios described by Woody and others, it sounds like they want charging/maintaining for a
starting battery and AGMs are ill suited for that.
But if there is ANY way to configure your vehicle so that it has a starting battery and a second "house" battery, consider doing it. If isolated
properly and with a switch to combine the two when needed, your worries about discharging one or the other are greatly reduced. They make two-bank
charge controllers that you can assign a percentage of the generated panel current to one or both of the batteries. And when one is finished charging,
the other gets the rest of the available juice, automatically.
There are companies that make battery holders that attach to the chassis. It doesnt have to go in the hood, where there is usually no room in todays
vehicles. But you will have to run some serious battery leads to it.
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woody with a view
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24 hours at 2amps produced a 12.97v when i unhooked the charger and added the maintainer it is now 12.62 after an hour. the battery starts the truck
strong as ever although i haven't started it in 3 weeks. is the consensus that since it isn't sitting north of 13v its compromised?
from the optima site, i'm confused:
However, if you store the vehicle for long periods with the alarm system engaged without maintaining the battery, you should use an OPTIMA YELLOWTOP®
since the amperage drain over several weeks would damage a REDTOP® and reduce its life. (no alarm engaged on my truck)
Yes, and you can use any charger on an OPTIMA Battery as long as the voltage is regulated properly. If your charger will remain on indefinitely, the
voltage should be at 13.8 volts maximum with a one-amp maximum current. (but i'm sitting at 12.6ish after two days of charging.)
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wessongroup
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Sure glad I don't have to worry about it ... 
Have an Optima Red Top ... just sits in the Bronco
With both the positive and negative off
Has been fine for right at 5 years, but, I haven't ever put a VOM on it ... It just starts
Did have it taken out by my kid and put in on the bench ... and put a charger on it ... trickle charge for a few days ... till all green ... the kid
had used it and left the ground connected and it went dead
Its back in the Bronco ... disconnected ... when I start it ... just put the connectors back on it ... and it fires right up
Have gotten a new "jump starter" with Lithium Ion battery ... my old Xantrax's battery's wore out ... and this was cheaper and lighter than the
Xantrax battery .. .replaced a couple over 10 years
Has nothing to do with the question of the thread ... for a solar charger ... I do have one panel which I have set up for that ... but, it is not
"mobile" and either am I ...
Energy Power Jumper(TM)P6, 12000 mph, ... said it wouldn't work on a 5.0L engine .. started up the Bronco just fine
Good luck on the solar application
[Edited on 12-9-2015 by wessongroup]
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msteve1014
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| Quote: Originally posted by woody with a view | 24 hours at 2amps produced a 12.97v when i unhooked the charger and added the maintainer it is now 12.62 after an hour. the battery starts the truck
strong as ever although i haven't started it in 3 weeks. is the consensus that since it isn't sitting north of 13v its compromised?
from the optima site, i'm confused:
However, if you store the vehicle for long periods with the alarm system engaged without maintaining the battery, you should use an OPTIMA YELLOWTOP®
since the amperage drain over several weeks would damage a REDTOP® and reduce its life. (no alarm engaged on my truck)
Yes, and you can use any charger on an OPTIMA Battery as long as the voltage is regulated properly. If your charger will remain on indefinitely, the
voltage should be at 13.8 volts maximum with a one-amp maximum current. (but i'm sitting at 12.6ish after two days of charging.)
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Buy a new battery before you really need it, like now.
Those numbers are not good.
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landyacht318
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I could likely get the battery to rest at a higher voltage with my adjustable voltage power supply, but the effects might only be temporary.
I would not necessarily assume your trickle charger actually fully charged the battery.
I am not sure I would count on that battery if in a locations where its sudden failure were going to cause a serious issue.
Put a digital voltmeter directly on the battery terminals when cranking the engine. If it cranks for less than 2 seconds and the voltage stays above
10.2 or so, I'd keep it and just carry jumper cables.
Its capacity is compromised, to some unknown degree. But if kept on a maintainer, and never discharged except what is used to start the engine, it
could last a lot longer.
Any battery in a 3 week slow discharge situation is not going to be a happy battery. but a larger battery will have less of its capacity slowly used
over those 3 weeks.
And optima batteries have ~25% less capacity than a rectangular AGM.
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Hook
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Agree with the other posters. If that battery wasnt pulled north of even 13.2 while on the trickle charger, then something is likely wrong with the
battery. Failure by the charger is possible; what voltage is it putting out without any load?
And the decay rate of the voltage, after charging, is not good. That leads me to believe it is the battery.
As landyacht mentioned, the capacity of all the Optimas is significantly less than a conventional rectangular battery. So if you are counting on using
the battery to start a car AND run appliances of some kind, you'd be better off with a rectangular AGM hybrid battery. Something to think about if you
need a new one. Of course, sizing in a Toyota engine compartment can limit what you can buy. A group 31 size is probably too tall.
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msteve1014
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FWIW. I thought my truck cranked over the same as always, but when I had some other work done the mechanic noted that it cranked somewhat slow, and
since my batteries were 6 years old maybe I should think about changing them.
Disconnected the batteries. One rested at 12.9, the other at 12.4.
New batteries. The starter sounds like it has been turbocharged. 
Seriously, You would not believe the change.
That guy sees lots of Ford diesels. I only drive one, and it changed so slowly I never noticed a difference.
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woody with a view
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i don't use it for anything but starting the truck. all my other stuff in Baja is run off a stand alone solar system. i may just swap this into my
daily driver and spring for one of the batteries mentioned here if i can get a decent refund under warranty.
assuming my truck sits for weeks at a time in the future i should always put the maintainer on the new battery, eh? my truck sits unlocked and
un-alarmed.
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brewer
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Sounds like you have some kind of a draw or a short somewhere. My Mex truck sits for up to 3 weeks at home and nothing changes. Consistent volts.
Batteries are a little over a year old.
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