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BajaBlanca
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this is wonderful to look at! thanks, David.
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David K
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De nada Blanca! Glad you like that.
I have a chapter on the Lost Missions in my new book... one of them is supposed to be real close to you!
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David K
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Nearly all of the historic images seen above have been included in my book.
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Lee
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Quote: Originally posted by David K  |
“Out of the wilderness a heathen and his wife are coming with their daughters and son to the mission to be converted.”
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Sad commentary on white men rewriting Native history, isn't it David? The spanish really did see the locals as heathens in need of conversion to
christianity -- and if the pagans didn't convert willingly, they were beaten or put to death.
How is this a good thing?
US Marines: providing enemies of America an opportunity to die for their country since 1775.
What I say before any important decision.
F*ck it.
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mtgoat666
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| Quote: Originally posted by Lee | | Quote: Originally posted by David K |
“Out of the wilderness a heathen and his wife are coming with their daughters and son to the mission to be converted.”
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Sad commentary on white men rewriting Native history, isn't it David? The spanish really did see the locals as heathens in need of conversion to
christianity |
thankfully (praise jesus!), in the end everything turned out well, and now we all share in the world's plenty of cheetos, jello, toyotas, netflix and
telenovellas.
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nandopedal
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WAIT......WAIT....uuppss I guess I am falling asleep at the wheel, it is here, good one goat!!
[Edited on 6-15-2016 by nandopedal]
\"There are many dangers in Baja. The most serious of which is not going.\" Christophe Noel (EXPO)
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David K
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Where was it said that was a good thing?
History is the accurate telling of what happened, not a judgement of its political correctness by modern standards. The Jesuits never put to death
natives who did not convert. However, once the government took over civil authority after the Jesuits, the natives were treated as tools.
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Lee
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I get the impression that David rebels against political correctness. Trump rebels against being correct too.
If the Jesuits were sent by the spanish christian church, and the church was part of the corrupt spanish government, forced religious conversion was
politically incorrect 500 years ago as it is today.
Sorry, this drawing doesn't depict Native indians. More like white europeans.
That's alright. Just keep rewriting and romanticizing history. For a profit.
Hey, just for the record, Jesuits taught me through the university level. Smartest religious in the church. Let's call a spade a spade.
US Marines: providing enemies of America an opportunity to die for their country since 1775.
What I say before any important decision.
F*ck it.
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David K
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That is how Tirsch illustrated them, showing them no different than Europeans rather than as savage animals. That was a good thing, I think.
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rts551
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| Quote: Originally posted by Lee | I get the impression that David rebels against political correctness. Trump rebels against being correct too.
If the Jesuits were sent by the spanish christian church, and the church was part of the corrupt spanish government, forced religious conversion was
politically incorrect 500 years ago as it is today.
Sorry, this drawing doesn't depict Native indians. More like white europeans.
That's alright. Just keep rewriting and romanticizing history. For a profit.
Hey, just for the record, Jesuits taught me through the university level. Smartest religious in the church. Let's call a spade a spade.
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The transformation was amazing. Don't people recognize that all conquerors had an interest in writing history "their" way.
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mtgoat666
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The eyes are quite large. The guys eyes are at different levels. The woman has a thick neck like a linebacker. All a bit odd.
| Quote: Originally posted by rts551 | | Quote: Originally posted by Lee | I get the impression that David rebels against political correctness. Trump rebels against being correct too.
If the Jesuits were sent by the spanish christian church, and the church was part of the corrupt spanish government, forced religious conversion was
politically incorrect 500 years ago as it is today.
Sorry, this drawing doesn't depict Native indians. More like white europeans.
That's alright. Just keep rewriting and romanticizing history. For a profit.
Hey, just for the record, Jesuits taught me through the university level. Smartest religious in the church. Let's call a spade a spade.
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The transformation was amazing. Don't people recognize that all conquerors had an interest in writing history "their" way.
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AKgringo
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Was peyote used by the indigenous population of Baja, or did the artist have to bring his own?
If you are not living on the edge, you are taking up too much space!
"Could do better if he tried!" Report card comments from most of my grade school teachers. Sadly, still true!
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Lee
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They were growing cannabis before it was politically correct.
US Marines: providing enemies of America an opportunity to die for their country since 1775.
What I say before any important decision.
F*ck it.
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willardguy
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pretty obvious.....kooks from the valley!
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bajabuddha
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To refute the murder of Native Americans for non-conversion as a pseudo-historian is ludicrous. The so-called 'Expert' should become a speech writer
for one of the two political parties.... either one, take your pic.
It's like the Mor(m)ons refuting "Blood Atonement" is no longer practiced, or even worse, never happened. Not only is it set in stone in their most
Holy book, Doctrine and Covenants (yes, more important than the Book of Mor(m)on), but it's still on the Law Books of Utah, and I can prove it. Peace
through Christ, or we'll kill ya.
I don't have a BUCKET LIST, but I do have a F***- IT LIST a mile long!
86 - 45*
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rts551
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| Quote: Originally posted by David K | | That is how Tirsch illustrated them, showing them no different than Europeans rather than as savage animals. That was a good thing, I think.
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I see David was converted. There is power in getting people to believe the unbelievable.
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David K
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There is no "belief" involved in this thread.
This is how a Jesuit illustrated life in California, from his mission at Santiago. Obviously, it was his artistic freedom or novice abilities that we
see it as perhaps not the actual way they looked.
However, until some other evidence can be seen, that is what there is. Take it or not, nobody is asking anyone to believe anything more than what
Padre Tirsch drew. Too bad others did not.
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sargentodiaz
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Something seldom mentions about the Catholic missionaries in the New World is their almost ignoring female Indians. It is surmised that their vows of
celibacy caused them to do their best to ignore the healthy bodies shown in all their glory - before they were able to have them almost totally clad
in blue cotton dresses.
It also meant that many missionaries failed to use the girls and women to perform those tasks they did before their arrival.
Another point - most of the missionaries were prolific in writing diaries and journals - most including amazingly detailed drawings of everything
surrounding them. Makes one wonder where all those beautiful drawings are.
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John M
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Registered: 9-3-2003
Location: California High Desert
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Re-photographing for Barry A & others
With all respect to David, and not wishing to contribute to the hijacking of threads, I will respond to Barry A.
On the subject of Grand Canyon re-photography, I believe the book you may be referring to is "Grand Canyon - A Century of Change" by Robert H. Webb.
this is a magnificent book, alas it isn't a re-do of the Powell Survey but of the 1889/1890 Robert Brewster Stanton railroad route survey. Webb,
one-hundred years later replicated hundreds of Stanton survey images, using as closely as possible the time of day, day of the year, and the original
camera locations.
If there is a rephoto of the Powell survey that would be yet another book to have! Although I believe many of the images in Powell were sketches. If
you find it, would you U2U me with the info?
John M
[Edited on 6-18-2016 by John M]
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David K
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Thank you John!
Any hijack that provides additional history and information is welcome!
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