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BajaMama
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Registered: 10-4-2015
Location: Pleasanton/Punta Chivato
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Mood: Got Baja fever!!
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We do snow runs in the winter - we always air down. We try to stay off the ice, though.
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JDCanuck
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Registered: 2-22-2020
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I would think if you want to stop on warm glare ice as that appeared to be letting air out might not be helpful if it changes the road patch of the
sipes (tiny suction slices) which were designed for the modern much softer winter passenger tires which prove superior in warm weather sudden
snowfalls. I too was reluctant to try them but really did find this modern very low tread multiple sipe tire works far better on wet ice and new snow
up to 8 inches deep. This is what we commonly get here as opposed to further north where we got cold old ice that has no water floating on the
surface. But as the title indicated, very doubtful anyone would be running modern winter tires in that area, more likely they had all terrain tires.
[Edited on 12-20-2021 by JDCanuck]
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4x4abc
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"modern winter tires" - Hakkapeliitta is the best - also means you mount and run them for snow conditions.
You change back to summer tires when the snow is gone.
Winter tires do not work well on dry roads.
not many can afford the luxury of 2 sets of tires
Harald Pietschmann
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JDCanuck
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Registered: 2-22-2020
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Will definitely be a change in thinking when in the Baja for me. Priority will be a hard rubber puncture resistant AT tire that lasts as long as
possible and at lowest replacement cost I think. I won't miss the -40 degree breakdowns on remote roads and have started packing a large container of
water rather than blankets and winter clothing. Any other suggestions for Baja off highway emergency supplies?
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JDCanuck
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Registered: 2-22-2020
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Hi Harald: Any suggestions also on a good cheap durable tire with soft sand and mud road treads and strong sidewalls to resist slicing by rocks? Bias
ply maybe? Rain driving and noise on pavement would not be issues that would have a high priority.
Vehicle would be a lightweight fwd SUV (Mazda Tribute or Saturn Vue) both 2.2 l 4 cyl. Yes, Grand Cherokees are far more durable and also
multi-purpose, but fuel costs are the killer in the calculation.
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4x4abc
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bias ply tires are indeed stronger in the sidewall
however, they don't air down well
the strong sidewall keeps them very rigid
a long time BFG fan, I also like General Tire
sidewall protections?
they all promise it - haven't found any that deliver
sidewall damage is also more of a driver issue
tread punctures are from sharp objects on pavement and high speed on dirt roads
airing down on dirt roads completely eliminates tread punctures (1/3rd rule)
you can keep the dirt road pressure on pavement - provided you don't go faster than 60km/h and no more than 100km distance.
Baja requires a lot of airing up and down - I sometimes do it a couple of times a day
that requires a good air compressor
good means durable and fast
plug in compressors are not good
1/3rd rule
start with your normal pressure
do the chalk line test to determine "normal"
let's say it is 30 psi
for long fast highway drives air UP 1/3 = 40 psi
for dirt roads air down 1/3 (from 30) = 20 psi
for mud sand and snow air down another 1/3 = 10 psi
emergency, 1/2 of the last pressure = 5 psi
Harald Pietschmann
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David K
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Posts: 64854
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc  | bias ply tires are indeed stronger in the sidewall
however, they don't air down well
the strong sidewall keeps them very rigid
a long time BFG fan, I also like General Tire
sidewall protections?
they all promise it - haven't found any that deliver
sidewall damage is also more of a driver issue
tread punctures are from sharp objects on pavement and high speed on dirt roads
airing down on dirt roads completely eliminates tread punctures (1/3rd rule)
you can keep the dirt road pressure on pavement - provided you don't go faster than 60km/h and no more than 100km distance.
Baja requires a lot of airing up and down - I sometimes do it a couple of times a day
that requires a good air compressor
good means durable and fast
plug in compressors are not good
1/3rd rule
start with your normal pressure
do the chalk line test to determine "normal"
let's say it is 30 psi
for long fast highway drives air UP 1/3 = 40 psi
for dirt roads air down 1/3 (from 30) = 20 psi
for mud sand and snow air down another 1/3 = 10 psi
emergency, 1/2 of the last pressure = 5 psi |
Good post!
The ADDING air above the recommended tire pressure for highway driving is new (to me)?? On highway drives, the heat adds to the air pressure, already
(~5 psi)
For anyone interested in the 'Chalk Test' (used to determine ideal street pressure), I posted my photos and findings about 9 years ago on Tacoma
World: https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/chalk-test-dynapro-atm-a...
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JDCanuck
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Thanks Harald, that's a whole lot of adjusting air pressure. As we both know the distances and road I will be travelling 95% of the time, I think best
for me is to keep the 30 psi except if I really need extra traction for the mud and sand conditions when i get trapped on the way home. This is
entirely new thinking for me.
[Edited on 12-20-2021 by JDCanuck]
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4x4abc
Ultra Nomad
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Location: La Paz, BCS
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tire chalk test
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0qL20nBNRI
a tip:
don't paint a large area of you tire for that test
a single chalk line across the tread will do
no need to drive around the block
4 or 5 tire revolutions will do
Harald Pietschmann
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100X
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What to carry/setup:
I am also a fan of the BFG's. Tires may be the most important item to get the best you can for Baja.
Of the plug-in air compressors, Viair is by far the best. Check out their offerings if you do not have a better option.
Add a good spare and a plug kit for until you get back to town (my last remove plug and patch after a puncture in Loreto cost 75 pesos). A good jack
and a pad for under it also important.
Tow strap, tow hooks front and back and first aid kit, tp, and I would keep at least one of those blankets just in case.
GAIA or similar so you can navigate off line. Ask Harald or others for tracks if you are going somewhere you are not familiar with (will load onto
GAIA, etc.).
Garmin inreach is a good option but a little pricey.
On airing down, very good information above. Note that as you air down, although this protects the tread, it also makes the sidewall more vulnerable.
Harald is correct this is a driver issue so must take care of the sidewalls when aired down. Also consider wheel size as this can impact the
sidewall's profile.
A life of fears leads to a death bed of regrets.
Find someone who will take care of you, and take care of them.
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John Harper
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| Quote: Originally posted by 100X | What to carry/setup:
Of the plug-in air compressors, Viair is by far the best. Check out their offerings if you do not have a better option.
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My Viair 85P has been a workhorse for many years now. I like the screw on connector over the clamp type, especially if your valve stem is flexible,
like on many passenger cars.
John
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AKgringo
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Posts: 6029
Registered: 9-20-2014
Location: Anchorage, AK (no mas!)
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This thread has turned into a valuable source of information! I hesitated to reply earlier, because the variables in driving in snow country are so
great, that what works well in one section of a road, could get you in trouble around the next bend.
In short, Harald knows what he is talking about! I also "air up" for long drives since I usually run lower than recommended psi for my daily driving.
I am off road for at least part of most days, and airing up and down is a pain, so I will accept the decrease in mileage and tire life for the
improved traction and ride softening.
My experience driving on ice and snow is considerable, since during all of my five years at Tahoe, and thirty plus in Anchorage, I was involved in ski
area management. "Is this trip necessary?" is the first question anyone should ask their self when the roads are bad, but is not an option when
avalanche control, or digging out he lifts has to begin before the road is plowed!
I may add more later, but guests are coming, and my preparation for them is way behind!
If you are not living on the edge, you are taking up too much space!
"Could do better if he tried!" Report card comments from most of my grade school teachers. Sadly, still true!
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4x4abc
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Posts: 4290
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Location: La Paz, BCS
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| Quote: Originally posted by lencho |
My question is whether airing down would be helpful for the conditions depicted in the videeo JZ posted.
I drive a fair amount in snow country (Eastern Washington), run good all-season tires year-round at "official" pressure, and it hadn't ever occurred
to me to air down; then again I've never gotten my Subaru stuck enough in the cold to even merit breaking out the shovel, so maybe I'm not a very good
test case.
[Edited on 12-20-2021 by lencho] |
airing down would have helped in JZ's video
but that's academic - who airs down in city traffic at the top of a hill?
the main driving skill on a slippery downhill is STAY OFF THE BRAKES!
the drivers that did were able to steer at the bottom
the others slipped into the pile
Harald Pietschmann
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David K
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Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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My Toyota has DAC (downhill assist control) that allows you to let the ABS and sensors control the speed to a slow crawl... no touching the brakes or
gas... just steer.
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4x4abc
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| Quote: Originally posted by David K | | My Toyota has DAC (downhill assist control) that allows you to let the ABS and sensors control the speed to a slow crawl... no touching the brakes or
gas... just steer. |
don't you have to be on low range for that?
Harald Pietschmann
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64854
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Location: San Diego County
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| Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc | | Quote: Originally posted by David K | | My Toyota has DAC (downhill assist control) that allows you to let the ABS and sensors control the speed to a slow crawl... no touching the brakes or
gas... just steer. |
don't you have to be on low range for that? |
As you should be for engine compression braking, especially without DAC!
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David K
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No, I have not used it on ice (I hate cold places).
I used it on very steep, uneven (rutted), loose-rocky surfaces.
The point is it does NOT lock the brakes... it pulses them so your truck will not drift sideways.
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JDCanuck
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Posts: 1669
Registered: 2-22-2020
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| Quote: Originally posted by lencho |
Speaking of that video, I didn't see indications of ABS pumping the brakes on those vehicles sliding down with their wheels locked up. Maybe it
doesn't work if all 4 wheels just stop turning (I assume at that point it doesn't have a way to know that the vehicle is moving.)
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Thats an interesting idea, I have only lost braking and began sliding once with ABS on ice downhill. I was prepared to throw it in neutral based on my
experiences with non ABS auto transmission vehicles, and when i did, it immediately regained braking and stopped quickly before i slid out into the
heavy cross traffic.
Every time I have found myself sliding downhill on ice, throwing the vehicle into neutral was the solution, ABS or non ABS. Under non ABS systems this
removes the driving force from the rear wheels that is pushing the front braked wheels down the hill, restoring the limited braking you apply.
4 wheel and AWD may be a whole other story, so I really cannot comment on them.
[Edited on 12-21-2021 by JDCanuck]
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AKgringo
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Location: Anchorage, AK (no mas!)
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My choice of tires is different for the Kia Sportage I have in Anchorage, and the one I drive in Northern CA.
On Alaska roads, the chance of driving through wet, heavy snow is less of a problem than operating on ice, so I run AT type tires (currently Nokian}
that are will siped and seem to be a softer rubber compound.
I don't "air down" Unless I am on a beach) but on that lightweight vehicle, I only run 26 psi all year! I had 35" BFG Mid terrains on my Suburban
that I ran about 32 psi, and they were great in snow, but not on ice! I wound up taking them to a truck tire shop to have sipes cut into the tread.
It helped a bit, but the rubber compound was fairly hard, and the aggressive lugs mean less rubber in contact with the ice.
On my CA Kia, I run aggressive mud terrains, and preferably as tall and narrow as I can get. I ran Bias ply Super Swampers for a while, and they cut
through Sierra cement like my car was on rails, where with wider AT type tires I have to constantly correct with the steering wheel as it pulls right
or left in slush. Harald is correct that Bias ply tire do not air down well.
Important....If you are going to be operating on snow and ice, consider any tire with 50% tread as worn out! Put new ones on your
rig, and sell the old ones while they are still worth something instead of running them until they are scrap!
If you are not living on the edge, you are taking up too much space!
"Could do better if he tried!" Report card comments from most of my grade school teachers. Sadly, still true!
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mtgoat666
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Best snow/ice driving advice is to stay put until the roads are plowed, sanded, salted. You pay taxes for a reason: take advantage of the road
clearing services that make driving easier.
While you are waiting for roads to be cleared, take a walk, go sledding, go skiing, read a book, etc.
Woke!
“...ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country.” “My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America
will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man.”
Prefered gender pronoun: the royal we
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