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Marty Mateo
Nomad
Posts: 104
Registered: 12-7-2019
Location: Vanisle Sur
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I’m a building lifted 2wd Chevy Express 2500 long wheel base. My focus is a separate garage area for a couple of dirt bikes and for use as a sealed
area for coatings used by my business.
This is after the 4” Weld Tech lift kit was installed and taller tires.
I’m not putting much camper type stuff in it, just a bed/couch setup and carry a portable fridge and stove but plan to eat out mostly especially in
Baja. I looked at a few 4x4 vans but they’re pretty rare up here and usually not for sale at a reasonable price. I figured I’d be on my bike by
the time things get really rough , but I would like to install a locker. I’m interested to know more about air vs electric as I thought air would be
better as I’d have a compressor on board for airing up the tires.
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Maderita
Senior Nomad
Posts: 670
Registered: 12-14-2008
Location: San Diego
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Quote: Originally posted by Marty Mateo  | | ...I would like to install a locker. I’m interested to know more about air vs electric as I thought air would be better as I’d have a compressor
on board for airing up the tires. |
Hola Marty,
Nice van and a worthwhile project.
ARB of Australia produces the "Air Locker". It is a selectable (part-time) locker, activated with pneumatic pressure. In addition to the mechanical
unit, it requires a 12v compressed air supply connected by flexible tubing to the axle housing. The axle housing is drilled to accommodate a fitting.
Air pressure is required to maintain engagement. The cost of the unit is about the same as electrically operated lockers. However, the additional need
for a compressor and the extra cost of plumbing installation can add a few hundred dollars.
Opinions vary. I haven't heard complaints about the durability of the unit. Complaints are typically about three things:
1. Air leaks anywhere between the pump and differential housing causing loss of pressure. The flexible airline can snag or pinch or break.
2. A small seal can fail inside the diff housing, causing gear oil to backflow up the air line and leak.
3. The air compressor fails or wears out and needs to be rebuilt or replaced.
I have experienced each of these failures. Parts were available in the USA from Seattle for an air piston rebuild kit. My ARB compressor fills its
attached pint-size attached air tank. By opening a 1/4-turn ball valve, a frame mounted 5 gallon air tank is pressurized when desired. That large tank
is in turn connected to air fittings front and rear for attaching hoses to fill tires, etc.
Electrical power to the compressor is operated from a toggle switch under on the lower dash. A toggle switch next to it controls a solenoid which
releases air to activate the air locker.
My compressor is mounted to the frame, near the rear axle. A modification is to add a rubber hose which goes through the sheet metal floor of the van
to the cargo space. The compressor draws clean air, rather than sucking dust from the undercarriage.
It's convenient to have on board air. But due to multiple past failures, I still carry a Viair 350C for a backup compressor.
The Eaton (parent company to Detroit) E-Locker is electronically activated. I believe the Detroit Locker was the original, full-time, locking diff.
Always a strong reputation as far as I'm aware.
My first experience with lockers was in the 1970s on a rockclimbing trip in the Sierra de Juarez. We had a heavy van mired in mud to the axles. Walker
Evans happened to be prerunning nearby. He drove a 2WD race truck with a Detroit Locker and snatched us out with extreme roost from BOTH rear tires,
powered by a built V-8. My buddy recognized Walker, the number one offroad racer of the era, famous for winning in 2WD trucks.
Since that day, I've had a Detroit Locker in Broncos, Jeeps, and 4x4 vans. The handling characteristics of a full-time locker are objectionable unless
you learn to love them in some misguided way. When I installed a Ford 8.8" rear axle in a 260 HP Wrangler, I chose the selectable Eaton E-Locker.
Droving it hard rockcrawling and sand duning, there were zero disappointments.
The E-Locker is activated by a lighted toggle switch on the dash. That signals an electromagnetic ball-ramp mechanism in the unit. No fuss, nothing to
maintain. And no air leaks, ever.
I have not used other brands but have heard that the newer, cable- activated Ox Lockers are durable. Others brands to check out may be Yukon "Grizzly"
and Auburn Gear.
Find out which rear axle is under your van, also the gear ratio. Then see which brand of locker is available for that axle. If not satisfied with the
gear ratio, install a new ring & pinion set with the locker to save on labor. The parts for the re-gearing should be about $300-$400.
If you have OEM 3.42 to 3.50 ratio, that's probably good for gas mileage and OEM tires. For your bigger tires (are they 33"?) most likely 3.73 gears
or even 4.10 ratio. Do some research on that with your specific engine/trans.
Hope this helps. Be sure to get back to us with your build. And photos, or "it didn't happen".
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BooJumMan
Senior Nomad
Posts: 897
Registered: 8-11-2007
Location: San Diego
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Speaking of lockers, the OEM Ford E-lockers will drop into older Sterling 10.5 axles. I bought mine new for $700ish from a 2011+ Ford Super Duty and
put it into my 2001. All you need is a switched 12V source and to route the wires into the diff.
I've never had air lockers but have heard the mean time between failures are higher than an E locker.
In that pre-Google Earth and social media epoch, The Code was adhered to. It was based on a simple verity: if a locale had been transformational for
you, and you had put the hard yards in to get there and to learn it, to know it, why in god�s name would you broadcast the news, thus ruining the
future experience not only for yourself, but for future adventurers?
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PaulW
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3075
Registered: 5-21-2013
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A locker is for serious obstacles. A limited slip may be more appropriate for a van conversion?
I would think a Trutrac front and rear would be a better solution.
Agree the Air locker were certainly the way to go back in the day, but now the electric ones are superior.
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AKgringo
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6029
Registered: 9-20-2014
Location: Anchorage, AK (no mas!)
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Mood: Retireded
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This would not be as worrisome for Baja travel, but if you anticipate driving that van on icy roads, a locker can spin you out in a heartbeat. I had
one in a Suburban with 35-inch mud tires that was damned scary if the front axle was not engaged on an icy road.
For what it is worth, I don't like leaf springs. You may need them for a heavy rig, but my favorite off road vehicle have all had coils, torsion
bars, or a combination of both.
[Edited on 2-7-2024 by AKgringo]
If you are not living on the edge, you are taking up too much space!
"Could do better if he tried!" Report card comments from most of my grade school teachers. Sadly, still true!
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geoffff
Senior Nomad
Posts: 674
Registered: 1-15-2009
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| Quote: Originally posted by Maderita | | What's with all the vans with the ladder mounted on the side? I laugh at the sight every time one drives past! It screams "wannabe". My apologies to
any Nomads who have one. I would have destroyed dozens of ladders by now or left one on numerous trees/chaparral. Either mount it to the rear door, or
learn to climb! |
I know, really!?!? Sure it looks cool, but that thing would get torn off on any of the road trips I've done. No one understands this when I try to
point this out. Anyway, when I added a ladder, I put it on the back.
Then again I've ripped off about five passenger-side mirrors over the years, so perhaps I tend to cut it a bit close.
[Edited on 2-8-2024 by geoffff]
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JZ
Select Nomad
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Registered: 10-3-2003
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| Quote: Originally posted by geoffff |
I know, really!?!? Sure it looks cool, but that thing would get torn off on any of the road trips I've done. No one understands this when I try to
point this out. Anyway, when I added a ladder, I put it on the back.
Then again I've ripped off about five passenger-side mirrors over the years, so perhaps I tend to cut it a bit close.
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Give me your thoughts Geoff. Love the pics of you traveling with your van.
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geoffff
Senior Nomad
Posts: 674
Registered: 1-15-2009
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I've had my van for 20 years now, and many of its offroad miles have been in Baja. Feel free to ask me about it.
Mine is a 2004 Sportsmobile 4x4. (Sportsmobile now calls itself "Field Van"). Note the side-ladder [:eyeroll:]
[Edited on 2-8-2024 by geoffff]
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geoffff
Senior Nomad
Posts: 674
Registered: 1-15-2009
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I've loved having my van over the years.
The size is (regular body van) is a good compromise between interior space, and the ability to turn around on the trail.
Being a van means the front seats (which flip around) become part of the living space when camping. And I can easily grab a drink from the fridge
while driving.
It's not quite a Jeep, but I can take it almost anywhere. It's fun to surprise the ATVs on the trail. And then I get to camp all alone at amazing
remote locations.
The large double-side doors means the van feels like part of the environment while I am camping. The camper merges with the outdoor campsite. Compare
this to most campers, which have narrow single doors – in these, you're either inside or you're outside.
 
The pop-top means I can stand up while parked, and still drive under low-hanging branches (8-foot high).
The pop-top means an amazing tent-like bed with panoramic views and cross-breeze. I love it – except for the fact that I can't leave the bed made
while driving. I have to remove and put away all the sheets and blankets every time I lower the pop-top to break camp. This was fine for a while, but
after hundreds of camping nights this has started getting old.
Some more criticisms:
The suspension is harsh because the front end has very little up-travel. The front axle is only an inch below the engine, so there's very little room
absorb any bumps on the trail. Unless I air the tires way down, the ride is very harsh offroad, and so I'm often crawling along at 10 MPH on trails.
My most significant van problem these days is that the van's body is littered with cracks from frame-flex abuse over the years. The van just wasn't
designed for frame flex, like a pickup truck would be. I keep trying to weld up the cracks as I see them, but there are more I can't see. Not sure
what I can do about all this except think about starting over with a new van soon. 20 years is a good run. Also, I tend to break engine mounts and
radiator mounts.
  
ARB air locker -- I have one of these. Nice when it works (and I use it very rarely), but the air compressor fails and needs replacing about once a
decade. It's a harsh environment down there under the van.
[Edited on 2-8-2024 by geoffff]
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JZ
Select Nomad
Posts: 10566
Registered: 10-3-2003
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I get the laughter at the side ladder.
Will say one thing. I think the newer ones don't stick out near as much on travel. You can push them up to lay flat against the side of the van.
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pacificobob
Super Nomad
Posts: 2308
Registered: 4-23-2006
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ARB lockers front&rear 10+ year , zero problems
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JZ
Select Nomad
Posts: 10566
Registered: 10-3-2003
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| Quote: Originally posted by geoffff | I've loved having my van over the years.
The size is (regular body van) is a good compromise between interior space, and the ability to turn around on the trail.
Being a van means the front seats (which flip around) become part of the living space when camping. And I can easily grab a drink from the fridge
while driving.
It's not quite a Jeep, but I can take it almost anywhere. It's fun to surprise the ATVs on the trail. And then I get to camp all alone at amazing
remote locations.
The large double-side doors means the van feels like part of the environment while I am camping. The camper merges with the outdoor campsite. Compare
this to most campers, which have narrow single doors – in these, you're either inside or you're outside.
The pop-top means I can stand up while parked, and still drive under low-hanging branches (8-foot high).
The pop-top means an amazing tent-like bed with panoramic views and cross-breeze. I love it – except for the fact that I can't leave the bed made
while driving. I have to remove and put away all the sheets and blankets every time I lower the pop-top to break camp. This was fine for a while, but
after hundreds of camping nights this has started getting old.
Some more criticisms:
The suspension is harsh because the front end has very little up-travel. The front axle is only an inch below the engine, so there's very little room
absorb any bumps on the trail. Unless I air the tires way down, the ride is very harsh offroad, and so I'm often crawling along at 10 MPH on trails.
My most significant van problem these days is that the van's body is littered with cracks from frame-flex abuse over the years. The van just wasn't
designed for frame flex, like a pickup truck would be. I keep trying to weld up the cracks as I see them, but there are more I can't see. Not sure
what I can do about all this except think about starting over with a new van soon. 20 years is a good run. Also, I tend to break engine mounts and
radiator mounts.
ARB air locker -- I have one of these. Nice when it works (and I use it very rarely), but the air compressor fails and needs replacing about once a
decade. It's a harsh environment down there under the van.
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I've always loved your van Geoff, very impressive all the places you you taken it.
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Marty Mateo
Nomad
Posts: 104
Registered: 12-7-2019
Location: Vanisle Sur
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Not much change other than the graphics. Got a few pieces in the garage for the interior but this project is down on the priority list for a bit .
Gotta get my priorities straight, only swung my leg over the dirt bike once this year 🤦♂️
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AKgringo
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6029
Registered: 9-20-2014
Location: Anchorage, AK (no mas!)
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Mood: Retireded
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Building a custom camper van is a worthwhile project, and could be a lot of fun. Since I was a kid, I have always loved tinkering with things. It
drove my dad nuts over some of the things I just had to take apart!
My problem was always finishing the project before something else got my attention. One would think that retirement would allow me time to get things
done, but honestly, I am worse now than ever!
I am better off taking ownership of someone else's dream mobile.
If you are not living on the edge, you are taking up too much space!
"Could do better if he tried!" Report card comments from most of my grade school teachers. Sadly, still true!
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PaulW
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3075
Registered: 5-21-2013
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Geooffff wrote'
The suspension is harsh because the front end has very little up-travel. The front axle is only an inch below the engine, so there's very little room
absorb any bumps on the trail. Unless I air the tires way down, the ride is very harsh offroad, and so I'm often crawling along at 10 MPH on trails.
=== =
How Agileoffroad got into business was to resolve the solid axle travel and harshness.
The fix is Coil overs spring/shocks and Twin traction beams combined with Fox Shocks
The company was formed between a highly skilled fabricator and a Fox insider.
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Marty Mateo
Nomad
Posts: 104
Registered: 12-7-2019
Location: Vanisle Sur
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| Quote: Originally posted by AKgringo | Building a custom camper van is a worthwhile project, and could be a lot of fun. Since I was a kid, I have always loved tinkering with things. It
drove my dad nuts over some of the things I just had to take apart!
My problem was always finishing the project before something else got my attention. One would think that retirement would allow me time to get things
done, but honestly, I am worse now than ever!
I am better off taking ownership of someone else's dream
mobile. |
Yep, “squirrel syndrome” is a challenge for me too 😂 When I was on my first drive down Baja in 93 I was thinking of what type of vehicle would
work best. We were driving a 68 Monaco which was a great conversation starter and got us down all the beach roads. I had the idea to put a sixties
chev panel on a late model truck chassis but with no workshop or yard space that plan didn’t go far 😂
It took me many years to get back to Baja and then a further few years to find the time to drive down again. We did two winters with a truck and toy
hauler combo which worked great when we were staying in one place but quite often was too big to explore off the tarmac.
We’ll give the van a go and see how that goes up here and down south
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Maderita
Senior Nomad
Posts: 670
Registered: 12-14-2008
Location: San Diego
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| Quote: Originally posted by PaulW | Geooffff wrote'
The suspension is harsh because the front end has very little up-travel. The front axle is only an inch below the engine, so there's very little room
absorb any bumps on the trail. Unless I air the tires way down, the ride is very harsh offroad, and so I'm often crawling along at 10 MPH on trails.
=== =
How Agileoffroad got into business was to resolve the solid axle travel and harshness.
The fix is Coil overs spring/shocks and Twin traction beams combined with Fox Shocks
The company was formed between a highly skilled fabricator and a Fox insider. |
Geoffff & PaulW,
That must be a very expensive, though agile solution. A much less expensive solution is finding a new set of leaf springs, with softer ride
characteristics and proportional to the weight of the van.
A buddy complained that the front suspension of his new (used) Sportsmobile 4x4 E350 was way too stiff and uncomfortable. So bad that his wife
wouldn't ride in it. I believe 2004 or 2005 year model. I looked under the front of the van and was surprised to see that the very pricey Deaver
springs had eleven leaves! Those springs had about 1" of compression travel to the bump stops. With both of us pushing down on the corner of the
bumper, the springs deflected less than 1/2".
I had him take a ride in my E350 Advance 4WD conversion (not a Sportsmobile), with aftermarket leaf springs for comparison. He said,"I want the ride
that yours has." I did the research and found a set of Skyjacker "Softride" at $290 each on eBay, free shipping. After installation in my backyard,
his van had over 3" of compression travel to the bumpstops, and a much smoother ride over bumps and potholes. His rear suspension was fine, and his
Fox 2.0 Emulsion shocks were noticeably superior to my Rancho RS9000's. Problem solved for $750 and 1/2 day of wrenching. His wife then made me the
best chocolate-chip cookies.
Geoffff, your van might or might not (edit: DOES NOT) have the same length front leaf springs. Here's what we installed on his van to replace the
Deavers:
https://www.4wheelparts.com/p/skyjacker-softride-leaf-spring...
(Edit: You will need shorter springs than the F840S part #. I searched for your post on the broken spring event from 2018 in San Felipe. You reported
a 50" leaf spring. These Deavers are 53.5" unweighted.)
You would also need a new set of urethane bushings for the springs and shackles. I recommend replacing the U-bolts during the installation. Sourced
those on eBay, $51 for the 4.
Deaver 11-leaf spring, now in my junk pile:
Front spring on my E350 as it sits w/ V10 engine, heavy steel bumper and 12k winch.
That short plate under the spring pack has an offset locating dowel. I moved the axle forward 1" to accommodate the spring lengthening rearward, upon
compression.
[Edited on 3-5-2024 by Maderita]
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surfhat
Senior Nomad
Posts: 547
Registered: 6-4-2012
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While my 18 year old Sprinter limo van is not 4wd, I did improve the bottoming out with Sumo bump stop replacements on all four corners.
The difference this makes when bottoming out, as we all will do at some point, is helpful with the mitigating the jolt.
I have seen some hydraulic actuated bump stop replacements that looked even better. When certain suspensions have little room for travel, some
softening of the bottoming out is golden.
Coil overs are the bomb. I don't have them on my Sprinter, but Agile Offroad did swap out my original struts and shocks with Fox in the rear and
Monroe Magnum struts in the front. Their choice at the time. They added a 2" body lift along with engine and transmission skid plates at the same
time. The larger tire size that were put on later have never rubbed the fenders, even when bottoming out on the Sumo bump stops. Thank you Agile
Ofroad in Santee, Ca. less than an hour away.
The improved handling has always been appreciated for such a high profile van.
Now back to the pros out there with their real 4wd vans going where I never would or could. Being able to crawl at times is crucial along with always
keeping momentum in mind.
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AKgringo
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6029
Registered: 9-20-2014
Location: Anchorage, AK (no mas!)
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Mood: Retireded
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Air bags
I am probably the only person who would put air bags in the rear coil springs on a little 2 door, rag top Kia Sportage, but they come in handy! I
have a tongue heavy off road trailer that tows well, but was too much for the springs on that itty bitty car.
I found that even without the trailer, the airbags improved the performance of the Sportage off road, and on winding paved roads.
They developed a leak over time, but are fairly cheap to replace if you can't find and fix the leak. I did the same thing with my Isuzu Trooper, and
it levels out pretty well even when loaded down with firewood.
By the way, I also make the Kia haul wood sometimes.
If you are not living on the edge, you are taking up too much space!
"Could do better if he tried!" Report card comments from most of my grade school teachers. Sadly, still true!
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Salsa
Nomad
Posts: 174
Registered: 2-4-2003
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Airbags are an excellent solution. They increases the preload without increasing the spring rate much at rest while increasing the rate near the
stops.
I built a Baja Squareback using the stock springs and my (Motorsport air shocks) as both spring rate enhancers as well as shocks. The shocks stiffened
when the spring rate increased.
Good luck with the project.
Don
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