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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 18362
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
Member Is Offline
Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Diver
Dead me tell no lies ??  |
every party in this saga tells lies. if mark's, olivia's or rafael's lips are moving, they are likely lying!
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 18362
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
Member Is Offline
Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Santiago
IF Mr Munos is correct in the following:
1. Olivia et al. are/were involved with the cartels.
2. The beach was used as an off-loading spot.
3. Mr Munos has been successful in getting this activity stopped.
THEN if follows that Mr Munos would no longer be alive. |
if drug running really was occurring, wouldn't mr munoz have been terminated after his first attack against drug smugglers?
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Skipjack Joe
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8084
Registered: 7-12-2004
Location: Bahia Asuncion
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Mtgoat,
Can you please quote a Mark lie for us here.
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Roberto
Banned
Posts: 2162
Registered: 9-5-2003
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
Mtgoat,
Can you please quote a Mark lie for us here. |
Let me ask you this - you buy that the truth is all on one side? Pretty tough to quote specific lies from an internet thread, but it seems all parties
are using this board for their own purposes - propaganda. Or not?
For me, I wouldn't trust either party further than I can throw them.
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wessongroup
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21152
Registered: 8-9-2009
Location: Mission Viejo
Member Is Offline
Mood: Suicide Hot line ... please hold
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Skipjack Joe
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8084
Registered: 7-12-2004
Location: Bahia Asuncion
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Roberto
| Quote: | Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
Mtgoat,
Can you please quote a Mark lie for us here. |
Let me ask you this - you buy that the truth is all on one side? Pretty tough to quote specific lies from an internet thread, but it seems all parties
are using this board for their own purposes - propaganda. Or not?
For me, I wouldn't trust either party further than I can throw them. |
I think it's best to just answer the question and deal with one false statement at a time, rather than a blanket statement.
Certainly Mark didn't help his cause with a couple of his posts.
There must be plenty of ammo to chose from. Since I don't understand the situation entirely it would be educational for me to know what the lies were.
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DianaT
Select Nomad
Posts: 10020
Registered: 12-17-2004
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Roberto
For me, I wouldn't trust either party further than I can throw them. |
Out of all the pages and posts, that statement seems to make the most sense.
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MexicoTed
Senior Nomad
Posts: 708
Registered: 8-2-2004
Member Is Offline
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Does anyone know if Sr. Munoz' employees are out of jail? He stated they would be out by noon today.
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Diver
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4729
Registered: 11-15-2004
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| Quote: | Originally posted by MexicoTed
Does anyone know if Sr. Munoz' employees are out of jail? He stated they would be out by noon today. |
Then it follows that they are still in jail.
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Skipjack Joe
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8084
Registered: 7-12-2004
Location: Bahia Asuncion
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DianaT
| Quote: | Originally posted by Roberto
For me, I wouldn't trust either party further than I can throw them. |
Out of all the pages and posts, that statement seems to make the most sense. |
I can understand that. It was with your encouragement that this thread about Mark and Olivia as victims got hijacked to become a thread of the
homeowners as victims.
As I now see it they played a game of risk and lost. And we all feel for their loss but there was always risk involved.
I believe that Pilot Mike (I don't remember his name) has always stated to not get involved in any Mexican land deal that you can't walk away from
without taking a complete loss.
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Woooosh
Banned
Posts: 5240
Registered: 1-28-2007
Location: Rosarito Beach
Member Is Offline
Mood: Luminescent Waves at Rosarito Beach
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
| Quote: | Originally posted by DianaT
| Quote: | Originally posted by Roberto
For me, I wouldn't trust either party further than I can throw them. |
Out of all the pages and posts, that statement seems to make the most sense. |
I can understand that. It was with your encouragement that this thread about Mark and Olivia as victims got hijacked to become a thread of the
homeowners as victims.
As I now see it they played a game of risk and lost. And we all feel for their loss but there was always risk involved.
I believe that Pilot Mike (I don't remember his name) has always stated to not get involved in any Mexican land deal that you can't walk away from
without taking a complete loss. |
Likely the origin of the Baja Nomad mantra "Never invest more in Mexican real estate than you are willing to walk away from."
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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latina
Nomad
Posts: 210
Registered: 3-19-2011
Location: La Paz
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If the homeowners who originally leased the property from Olivia started making payments to Rafael instead because they believed the deception that he
was the new "owner", why didn't any of them or all of them make denuncias against Rafael Muņoz Martinez for abuso de confianza and fraude, or did
they?
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Roberto
Banned
Posts: 2162
Registered: 9-5-2003
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
| Quote: | Originally posted by Roberto
| Quote: | Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
Mtgoat,
Can you please quote a Mark lie for us here. |
Let me ask you this - you buy that the truth is all on one side? Pretty tough to quote specific lies from an internet thread, but it seems all parties
are using this board for their own purposes - propaganda. Or not?
For me, I wouldn't trust either party further than I can throw them. |
I think it's best to just answer the question and deal with one false statement at a time, rather than a blanket statement.
Certainly Mark didn't help his cause with a couple of his posts.
There must be plenty of ammo to chose from. Since I don't understand the situation entirely it would be educational for me to know what the lies were.
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That is certainly a logical approach. However, I just don't believe that it applies in this situation. We are not around the campfire, face-to-face.
We don't even know each other, and the website is being used to manipulate our perception of who is wrong and who is right of obvious reasons.
Based on that, I just take what the players in this saga say and try to read between the lines, and what I see makes me want to stay as far as
possible from all parties. I have little doubt that I would get screwed no matter which party was in control. Couple that with the fact that the "law"
offers little to no protection.
[Edited on 2-19-2012 by Roberto]
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XPBRes
Junior Nomad
Posts: 66
Registered: 2-11-2012
Location: SoCal
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Mood: SOULFUL
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Latina,
Up until spring of last year there were renters-homeowners still on the beach trying to sort all of this out. There are only 3 of us left who even
care about the outcome. We didnt feel comfortable airing out some of this on a chat board while they still had a chance to work it out.
What I know is that I have a signed lease, was voided by Olivia 2002.
At the same time Munoz shows documents to Roberto & Franca Hotel owners. They find him to be creditable; they share this info with us.
We stall for over a year and then start paying Munoz for rent and some back rent. At this time we are evicted by Olivia and then sued, late 2003.
I am asked by Munoz to use my home for an investigation. I decline and I am evicted, I think this 06-07
During this time there are the same accusations and threats that you have seen posted since and before the turtle thread.
I will state that I am not clear who is in the right. We have seen a lot more documentation from Munoz. At this point both sides are claiming victory
in court. After 10 years it is not that clear unless you take a side and then it is crystal clear.
I DO NOT THINK THERE ARE DRUGS BEING RUN FROM THE BEACH
I still have a right to wonder how they do it, as I do with everyone.
Please continue to support that area with your understanding and prayers for its conclusion.
I would be very happy for Mark & Olivia to be able to live out their lives and be successful.
That is what we wanted in the beginning. I guess we just weren't willing to wait, trust and pay for it after the way the 1st 10 years went.
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Roberto
Banned
Posts: 2162
Registered: 9-5-2003
Member Is Offline
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I can only imagine what it must have been like for you to lose all you had spend time, money, dreams and blood on that beach.
What I do not understand is how, after that history, you are so accepting and non-critical of those who caused this.
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Diver
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4729
Registered: 11-15-2004
Member Is Offline
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As I stated originally; you assumed too much ! 
| Quote: | Originally posted by XPBRes
I DO NOT THINK THERE ARE DRUGS BEING RUN FROM THE BEACH
I still have a right to wonder how they do it, as I do with everyone.
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Woooosh
| Quote: | Originally posted by Diver
| Quote: | Originally posted by Woooosh
I don't know what they were thinking, I only note their actions. That is not an assumption, it is an observation based on their statements.
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No, they said they were uncomfortable with these guys staying in their house.
They did not say that they had any knowledge of any drug running by anyone.
You added that part yourself; you made an assumption.
Wherein did you "observe" anything else ?
[Edited on 2-17-2012 by Diver] |
Go back and read the posts carefully Diver. XPBres said the PB residents wondered out loud for years where all the money was coming from, not me.
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XPBRes
Junior Nomad
Posts: 66
Registered: 2-11-2012
Location: SoCal
Member Is Offline
Mood: SOULFUL
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Roberto,
I have been negotiating with all parties, starting with the original lease.
We spent a year trying to come to some agreement that Olivia and the homeowners could see as fair.
Then it became 3 parties when Munoz came along. I have had almost everyone in this small group upset with me, the messenger, more than once.
My wife had the hardest time getting over me finally throwing in the towel.
When Munoz turned on me and accused me of siding with Mark & Olivia, for not letting him use the house for a sting operation. Then finding out he
had already been in my home with family and friends I knew it was over.
That has now been a lifetime ago and we have made much better decisions since then.
So I guess that was the long version of time, wonderful memories and good people has a way of healing a broken heart.
Forgiveness is also an awesome tool, for good health.
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Roberto
Banned
Posts: 2162
Registered: 9-5-2003
Member Is Offline
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Forgiveness, and time. You moved on. I hear you. Best of luck in your travels.
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Skipjack Joe
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8084
Registered: 7-12-2004
Location: Bahia Asuncion
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XPBRs,
What were the points of disagreement between the homeowners and Olivia? Points that kept the agreement from being signed originally.
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latina
Nomad
Posts: 210
Registered: 3-19-2011
Location: La Paz
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XPBRes et al, don't you see? It is as clear as a bell...you and your neighbours were duped and bullied by Muņoz and his claimed "status" as a
"lawyer"...He probably came at you the same relentless way he comes across on this board...with his superiority complex, lack of compassion and "just
you wait" attitude...Olivia was the person in control of the lease, not Rafael Muņoz Martinez, and you clearly acknowledged that when you wrote that
your lease was "voided by Olivia". Your trust was misplaced, and it fuelled the appetite, greed and confidence of Muņoz and his associates... After
that "small" victory there was no turning back for them...In their minds they thought it would all be over in a heartbeat...except they didn't count
on Mark & Olivia fighting back the way they have for 10 years..... Hence the constant slander, the set-ups and the anonymous calls to the
police...
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